Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?

[dan1el]

I'm not in favor of murdering homosexual's, actually. Execution and murder are two different things. And as you can see in Roman's, homosexual's are deserving of the death penalty.

And we should just accept that?

You're not supposed to indicate plurals with apostrophes, by the way.

 

[cattyfan]

I have several of them in the fellowship I lead. Because I share with them the whole gospel, and not part of it, like many on this site, they are being set free.

You people have no idea what the heck you are talking about on this subject. You are nothing but a bunch of arm chair quarterbacks who are part of the problem. I have to deprogram these homos every week friom the crap they pick up at their churches about how it's okay to practice being a homo and a Christian.

Pathetic!

Interesting you used part of my quote before your post. Never once have I said here or anywhere else that it's "okay to be gay." And armchair quarterbacks don't get involved...which can't be said of me.

 

[cattyfan]

Beloved in the Lord. My wife, Cattyfan, has asked me to offer a perspective for the discussion you are having on whether Scripture is mandates the execution of adulterers and homosexuals.

Let me see if I understand the theological thought process: using Bible quotations such as Deuteronomy 22:25, posters like Lighthouse are saying that God’s civil law given to His chosen people, Israel, is still in effect, right?

Therefore, even if our country does not allow for the execution of adulterers and homosexuals, that God’s law prevails over any law our country has established, right?

And that if followers of God do not, at least advocate, the enforcement of these laws, then they are not being true Christians, right?

The fundamental assumption in interpreting and applying these verses is that each verse of Scripture is looked at without using other Bible verses to offer clarity, context, elaboration, and explanation. No Bible passage exists in an island of its own without another verse offering aid on interpretation.

One of the strongest Biblical principles I use to help me understand any verse in the Bible is that all Scripture points to Jesus Christ. He became incarnate as man not only to pay the price for our sins with His life, but during His earthly ministry corrected misinterpretations and misapplications of what we call the Old Testament Law.

So certainly Jesus, as God-Man, could have decided to execute the prostitute in John 8: 3-11 (or at the very least have His heavenly Father do that.) But Christ did not even call for the adulterous man to be brought forward. What’s up with that? Was Christ not violating His own Word by not following Deuteronomy 22:23-24, Leviticus 20:10. Did He not live a perfect life? If He did, why didn’t He follow His own Word? Could not have Christ said that His law outranked Roman law?

Or could it be that the verses in Deuteronomy and Leviticus were civil laws that applied only to the theocracy that God set up in the nation of Israel that no longer existed as a sovereign nation, because God had pronounced His judgment against them due to their unrepentant sin? Therefore, Christ’s actions were in accordance with His Father’s will in that the earthly rulers in that area forbid the Jews from executing their own civil law. Therefore, Christ’s goal in John 8:3-11 was not execute the woman for her sin nor to excuse the women’s behavior, but to point out how quickly other sinners wanted to kill another sinner instead of offering her the chance to repent of her sin and turn toward God. Christ brought the women to repentance, forgave her, and sent her on her way exhorting her to leave her life of sin. Christ's example becomes our example.

Several people have called for more of a biblical debate on the topic...yet when one was posted, they soundly ignored it.

 

[countdown]

I notice you said "You seem to believe". But the reality is that God Himself decreed it as deserving of death. Whether you agree with whether or not it should be something punishable by death today or not, why do you ignore the fact that God said it, and pretend that anyone who says that is not agreeing with God?

You are puffed with the leaven of the pharisees when you pursue the application of Moses' law for only select acts done by some sinners while giving a pass to others who fornicate by other means.

Penalties for Breaking the Law
Leviticus 20

Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 "Again, you shall say to the children of Israel: 'Whoever of the children of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell in Israel, who gives any of his descendants to Molech, he shall surely be put to death. The people of the land shall stone him with stones.
3 I will set My face against that man, and will cut him off from his people, because he has given some of his descendants to Molech, to defile My sanctuary and profane My holy name. 4 And if the people of the land should in any way hide their eyes from the man, when he gives some of his descendants to Molech, and they do not kill him, 5 then I will set My face against that man and against his family; and I will cut him off from his people, and all who prostitute themselves with him to commit harlotry with Molech.
6 'And the person who turns to mediums and familiar spirits, to prostitute himself with them, I will set My face against that person and cut him off from his people. 7 Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy, for I am the Lord your God. 8 And you shall keep My statutes, and perform them: I am the Lord who sanctifies you.
9 'For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him.
10 'The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death.

11 The man who lies with his father's wife has uncovered his father's nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

12 If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death. They have committed perversion. Their blood shall be upon them.

13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

14 If a man marries a woman and her mother, it is wickedness. They shall be burned with fire, both he and they, that there may be no wickedness among you.

15 If a man mates with an animal, he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal.
16 If a woman approaches any animal and mates with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood is upon them.

...
27 'A man or a woman who is a medium, or who has familiar spirits, shall surely be put to death; they shall stone them with stones. Their blood shall be upon them.'"

David sinned. David repented. God commuted his punishment but the child suffered, David's family suffered forever, Bathsheba and David suffered -but God did not put him to death nor did he put Bathsheba to death.

You would have homosexuals put to death by "Rome" because you do not have the power of the sword, but you would have "Rome' enact part of Moses for you, but not all of it, as you excuse lawbreakers whom you know who have been guilty of those things outlined above.
That is the Pharisees leaven of hypocrisy.

 

[S†ephen]

Super duper- I, however, don't have any respect for anyone who advocates putting people to death for consensual sex acts between adults based on a combination of native loathing and ancient laws.

Agreed. But you you do agree that someone like a murderer should be put to death? That is my stance. If one has violated the physical rights of another against that persons will then punishment is due.

Oh really? From where I'm standing it certainly likes you THINK you are more moral, but I haven't seen anything to convince me of that. Interfering in the lives of rational adults in order to enforce your morals isn't being moral, it's being a tyrant.

I'm speaking of sexual morality. I agree that it is tyrannical to interfere in the life of a homosexual against his will. My point is that Christians are still perfectly secure in their sexuality and more moral in the sense that we show sexual discretion where homosexuals do not.

 

[WizardofOz]

Hypothetical:

A homosexual sins by having homosexual sex

He / She repents

Should that person still be condemned to execution by a government operating by God's law as it is interpreted by "Christians" on this board?

Luke 17:3-4
1 John 1:9
Hebrews 8:12
Hebrews 10:16-20

 

[Mystery]

So it's the responsibility of the US government to enforce God's law?

Just where the hell do you think anyone gets the idea that we should not murder, steal, rape, commit adultery?

What a bunch biblically inept morons.

 

[countdown]

I'm not in favor of murdering homosexual's, actually. Execution and murder are two different things. And as you can see in Roman's, homosexual's are deserving of the death penalty.

So "Romans says the sodomites deserve the death penalty", and you are willing to have sodomites executed by the governemnt for you, then, believing God has ordained that for Governments to do?? -Read on, in Romans, and tell me why you stopped at Sodomites, instead of applying the death penalty desire to the whole list Paul wrote.

Romans 1
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, [fn3] sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, [fn4] unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

It is hypocritical of you to claim Romans gives governments the right to execute sodomites when you leave everyone else out, who practice the listed "crimes" as "deserving of death"
-BTW, do you know anyone who practices any of those things or who has, and do you practrice any of those things or have you? They are all equal with sodomy so why do you only single out one kind of "crime" as deserving of death?

 

[Mystery]

Hypothetical:

A murderer sins by murderering someone

He / She repents

Should that person still be condemned to execution by a government operating by God's law as it is interpreted by "Christians" on this board?

Luke 17:3-4
1 John 1:9
Hebrews 8:12
Hebrews 10:16-20

Yes, you godless pervert!

 

[Redemption]

Christ freed us from the penalty of the law in the sense that He paid that penalty for us. But that doesn't give a Christian the right to walk into a supermarket and shoplift. While Christ paid for that Christian's sin of stealing, he would still have to face the legal ramifications of that.

Do you suppose that a Christian who is broke has the right to go out and commit armed robbery in order to have money to eat without facing the consequences legally for his actions in this life?

I believe that murder, adultery, and homosexuality are still morally wrong, because those truths are what is known as horizontal truths that apply to all people for all time periods.

Were you aware that there are things that have never changed, and that those truths are called horizontal truths? God is still good and always has been good, holy, righteous, etc...

There are also verticle instructions that are given by God to specific people and at specific times that were only instructions given to those people!

I think the question was "What do you think should be done with homosexuals?".

 

[countdown]

Yes, you godless pervert!

you are ignorant of any understanding of God's Word.
By your puffed up leaven of hypocrisy God sinned against 'mystery' for not executing David and Bathsheba; and then of course, Jesus' incarnation and birth into this world is illegal, and counts not, for 'mystery' wants David and Bathsheba dead through whom Nathan came, who is the ancestor of the womb mother of the Lord Jesus.
"You are of your father the devil".

The same passage which commands the death of sodomites demands the death penalty for adulterers. You are blaspeming hypocrite.

 

[Mystery]

Just before God destroyed Sodom, two angels came into the city to meet with Lot...

"Before they lay down (went to sleep in Lots house), the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; and they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them."

This is the mindset of homos. They had each other to perform their acts of perversion, but that was not enough for them. They were so obsessed and depraved that they actually surrounded the house to force two strangers to have sex with them.

Homos will do anything to satisfy their sexual appetites, because they are obsessed with themselves. They don't care who it is, and when they cannot find a suitable companion to take advantage of, they prey on anyone they can including children.


"...in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and, although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them."

The above verses show what is in the heart of those who burn in their desire for the same sex. Every intent of their heart is evil.

Any evil behavior that is tolerated and goes unpunished escalates and destroys a society from within.

Homosexual behavior needs to be a capital crime, so that people will consider the penalty for their actions and not lead a life that destroys themselves and others.

When I was young, I wanted to steal things I wanted, but I got caught once, and it saved me from believing that it is a perfectly acceptable way to get what I want. If that had never happened; if society tolerated that behavior, I would have brought destruction to myself and others. Homos steal what they want from others. They destroy peoples innocence and they destroy peoples health and lives. They promote a life of selfishness and decay. It is an act of love to prevent them from continuing in that behavior, and the prospect of death will do just that. Those who tolerate them, hate them.

 

[Mystery]

Verses 18-19

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them."

God’s wrath has always been against men who hide the truth of God’s righteousness, and establish their own, which is nothing more than unrighteousness and ungodliness. The truth is, they know about God and His righteousness, because God has revealed Himself to all men, but they reject it.

Verse 20

"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."

Every since God created this world, all men have seen His power in the world around them, and they know He is God. They have no excuse to believe otherwise.

Verse 21

"For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

Even though they know He is God, they refuse to acknowledge Him or be thankful. Because of this, all of their ideas and thoughts are meaningless. They can no longer think clearly.

Verses 22-23

"Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures."

Instead of acknowledging God, they choose to find meaning and purpose in the things He created. They have exchanged wisdom for foolishness.

Verse 24

"Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, that their bodies might be dishonored among them."

God allowed them to seek after those things that filled their heart and in which they sought physical gratification, so that they would be despised and lose all respect for their bodies.

Verse 25

"For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen."

Romans 12 tells us that true worship is presenting ourselves to God. However, in order to please themselves they made a bad exchange. They choose to present their bodies to one another, and not to God.

Verses 26-27

"For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."

Not all men and women did these things, but only those who progressed from bad to worse as the previous verses explained. Women chose to have sexual relations with women, and men chose to do the same with men. As a result they were disgraced and suffered the wrath of God in their flesh. Homosexuality is the natural progression and the
pinnacle of evil of a heart and mind that has rejected God.

Verse 28

"And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,"

"They" are those who have come to reject God and have shown the evidence of their rejection in their lust filled perversions. God allowed them to be ruled by their depravity, and "they" were filled with all unrighteousness doing those things that reveal just how evil they have become.

Verses 29-31

"...being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;"

There is no doubt that the world as a whole is guilty of these things (all have sinned), but the context of these verses is to show that the they are the result of man's rejection of God, and the culmination of that rejection is evidenced by those who participate in homosexual behavior. There is no doubt that all men are sinners, but Paul makes a point of showing that the wickedness of man is clearly seen in the behavior and the heart of those who practice homosexuality. It is the most grevious of behaviors, and every evil fills their hearts.

Verse 32

"...and, although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them."

Again, the "they" in this verse is still speaking of those who are practicing homosexuals. The context never changed. Those homosexuals know full well that those who do such things as Paul listed are worthy of death, but it makes no difference to them, because they do not respect or acknowledge God in the least! They worship themselves, and they give hearty approval to anyone who will join them in their debauchery.

 

[Redemption]

Agreed. But you you do agree that someone like a murderer should be put to death? That is my stance. If one has violated the physical rights of another against that persons will then punishment is due.

I'm speaking of sexual morality. I agree that it is tyrannical to interfere in the life of a homosexual against his will. My point is that Christians are still perfectly secure in their sexuality and more moral in the sense that we show sexual discretion where homosexuals do not.

I do appreciate your level-headed posts. But I wonder if you were aware that it's very likely that a person who struggles with homosexuality (or at least same sex attraction) is sitting right nex to you at church?

 

[WizardofOz]

So, you believe that raping and murdering a child is the same as having 3 pieces of pie or stealing a pen from work?

All sin is equal in God's eyes, right?

To condemn a sinner to death is to condemn yourself, regardless of the sin in question, because you are also worthy of the same fate.

It matters not what I think, or what you think. Is all sin not equal in the eyes of God? You too, are worthy of execution, yet you fail to remove the plank from your own eye before judging AND condemning your brethren.

You are a complete and utter moron, not to mention a disgusting pervert. :vomit:

Thanking you for showing me your true fruits "Mystery". I have been posting here for 3 days and you have already labeled me "disgusting" a "pig" and a "pervert". Your own hypocrisy should disgust a self-righteous pharisee like yourself. Of course, I forgive you for your trespass.

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
James 3:17

Matthew 7:20

 

[Mystery]

you are ignorant of any understanding of God's Word.

You are a Christ hating pervert, who twists what God has said so that you can justify your evil behavior.

Your pride filled hypocrisy and biblical illiteracy is easily discerned.

You are nothing more than an immature, demon possessed, turdslinging donkey cavity.

 

[Mystery]

It matters not what I think

You are right, it sure doesn't! You are a wolf in sheep's clothing, and only here to spread your dung filled lies.

You are no Christian. You are a fraud.

 

[WizardofOz]

"...being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;"

There is no doubt that the world as a whole is guilty of these things (all have sinned),

That's right. You too are just as worthy of execution as the most blasphemous homosexual on this planet.

"Any sin is a violation of God's law. As human beings, we sometimes categorize some sins as worse than others, but not in the eyes of God. One of our great difficulties in our service to God is that we often think little "white sins" are not as bad as those "big bad sins." Our difficulty is that we do not see sin through the eyes of God, but through human eyes."

 

[PlastikBuddha]

Agreed. But you you do agree that someone like a murderer should be put to death? That is my stance. If one has violated the physical rights of another against that persons will then punishment is due.

I can agree with that.

I'm speaking of sexual morality. I agree that it is tyrannical to interfere in the life of a homosexual against his will. My point is that Christians are still perfectly secure in their sexuality and more moral in the sense that we show sexual discretion where homosexuals do not.

That's a bit of a generalization. I'm sure there are Christians who are completely secure in their own sexuality, and that their homophobia is completely free from any unease caused by the discomfort of confronting something that is different. I am also sure that there are those who are stuck in an adolescent phase of xenophobia and are using religion as a means of justifying their bullying. As for morality and sexual discretion, well, that's just a little off the wall isn't it? There are sexually immoral and indiscrete Christians of every stripe, just as there are among homosexuals. There are broken vows and promises and sexual assaults. Trying to tie morality down to sexual orientation is meaningless. The exact same behaviours can be found in both groups. I've read Cameron's baloney-ridden attempts to show that homosexuals are fare more likely to commit sexually "immoral" acts, and it is so full of holes it should have collapsed under the weight of its own folly years ago. Unless you start with the premise that homosexuality is immoral you're just whistling "Dixie".

 

[Mystery]

That's right. You too are just as worthy of execution as the most blasphemous homosexual on this planet.

"Any sin is a violation of God's law. As human beings, we sometimes categorize some sins as worse than others, but not in the eyes of God. One of our great difficulties in our service to God is that we often think little "white sins" are not as bad as those "big bad sins." Our difficulty is that we do not see sin through the eyes of God, but through human eyes."

The homo issue has NOTHING to do with SIN, you ignorant twit!! ALL people are guilty of sin. The sin issue was settled ONCE for ALL 2000 years ago on the cross.

Homos are to be judged for the same reasons that we judge rapists, murderers, child molestors, etc. Because there has to be laws in order to maintain civility in a society, and to protect others from evil behavior.

IF you do not believe that, then YOU have NO RIGHT to ever tell your children not to do ANYTHING!!!