Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?

[lovemeorhateme]

I cannot possibly express the peace that came from getting past that point of belief in my own life. I only hope you will one day reach the same place, and feel what joy freedom from the bondage of such a belief truly brings.

'If any man come after me.. let him deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.' - Jesus Christ

I am more prepared to deny myself of my homosexuality - the cross I have to bear.. that I am to embrace a homosexual lifestyle which is, frankly, absolutely disgusting. I come from a place of believe it was ok, even good to be gay. See, you are now pronouncing a judgement on me without understanding anything about my past.

 

[Delmar]

Certainly. But even as an atheist, I can scarcely see why God should be expected to be fair. "Fairness" is an impossible standard to uphold, and an undesirable one at that (a truly fair world is no world in which I would wish to dwell).

Justice, however, is an entirely different matter in which I find the God of the bible wholly and unforgivably lacking, though that bears little relevance to this discussion. I merely wished to note the existence of a firm difference between the qualities of justice and fairness.

There is a reason I addressed the question to Red.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

Can I ask you what you think causes homosexuality then? If you believe the attraction isnt a choice then what causes people to be gay?

I think that it is a combination of factors. Many homosexuals I have met were abused as kids. I also think that it can be the influence of a corrupt and immoral society. Personally, I believe that the start of my sexuality was abuse as a kid.. which then went further when I ended up sleeping around at a pretty young age with a couple of other guys in my neighbourhood. The homosexual lifestyle revolves around sex.. I am very ashamed of my past. Sex-obsessed is the was I describe most homosexuals.

I do not believe that people are born gay.. however, even if they were, and it was proved to be genetic, it wouldn't change much. Sin corrupted God's creation, probably even down to the genetic level.

 

[red77]

I think that it is a combination of factors. Many homosexuals I have met were abused as kids. I also think that it can be the influence of a corrupt and immoral society. Personally, I believe that the start of my sexuality was abuse as a kid.. which then went further when I ended up sleeping around at a pretty young age with a couple of other guys in my neighbourhood. The homosexual lifestyle revolves around sex.. I am very ashamed of my past. Sex-obsessed is the was I describe most homosexuals.

I do not believe that people are born gay.. however, even if they were, and it was proved to be genetic, it wouldn't change much. Sin corrupted God's creation, probably even down to the genetic level.

So you believe it to be more of a set of outside factors rather than being born gay? although you dont discount the possibility, either way the attraction itself isnt a choice, the heterosexual world also pretty much revolves around sex at a young age unhealthy though that may be....

 

[csuguy]

Silly Christians, the Law is for Jews....

 

[red77]

Hey Red


So assuming that Paul and the author of Leviticus are correct and God really does forbid Homo sex, is God unfair?

If homosexual attraction isnt always a choice then there is something that doesnt seem fair about that, at least to me. Thats why i've debated whether homosexuality is a choice for the most part and all indications are that it isnt, even those who support the DP for it are loathe to admit that anyone can be born gay because they've acknowledged that it would hardly be fair of God to punish someone for an orientation with no choice involved - hence why a lot of people on here refuse to believe that the attraction can be anything other than wilful choice which seems to fly in the face of the evidence....

 

[lovemeorhateme]

Silly Christians, the Law is for Jews....

I see.. so in your way of thinking:

I am allowed to murder, steal, sleep around with whom or whatever I want (including animals and close family members), commit adultery.. and everything which is prohibited I am allowed to do?

:dunce:

 

[zoo22]

I'm heading out for some coffee and donuts. Would anyone like any? I hope nobody is executed before I get back.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

So you believe it to be more of a set of outside factors rather than being born gay? although you dont discount the possibility, either way the attraction itself isnt a choice, the heterosexual world also pretty much revolves around sex at a young age unhealthy though that may be....

Correct, I do not believe that people are born gay. I know that the attraction is not a choice, but to have sex is.

Furthermore, when I was referring to homosexuals as sex-obsessed.. I didn't just mean at a young age. The whole of gay lifestyle revolves around gay sex. If you don't like me saying it, ask someone else, such as uk_mikey!

 

[lovemeorhateme]

I'm heading out for some coffee and donuts. Would anyone like any? I hope nobody is executed before I get back.

I'll have a couple of doughnuts please!

If you don't let me have them.. I might have to execute you.

:devil: :execute:

 

[csuguy]

I see.. so in your way of thinking:

I am allowed to murder, steal, sleep around with whom or whatever I want (including animals and close family members), commit adultery.. and everything which is prohibited I am allowed to do?

:dunce:

You are allowed to do them, although you will have to deal with the government if you do a couple of those listed.

You don't understand that we are no longer subject to the punishments of the Law, Christ has paid the price. The Law is good to learn from, but only a fool puts himself under it. You can have grace or the Law. Choose wisely...

 

[red77]

Correct, I do not believe that people are born gay. I know that the attraction is not a choice, but to have sex is.

Furthermore, when I was referring to homosexuals as sex-obsessed.. I didn't just mean at a young age. The whole of gay lifestyle revolves around gay sex. If you don't like me saying it, ask someone else, such as uk_mikey!

hmm, I know people who claim that they've been gay from a young age with no abuse or any outside stimuli to factor into the equation, to be honest I see no reason why these people would lie about it, when I was a bit younger there was (and still is really) a real stigma attached to it and it isnt something that I can imagine people choosing to be because of the hostility and bullying that could happen as a result, I'm aware that gay people can be sex obsessed and i've known a couple who would fit the description of the lifestyle you give, i've also known others who didnt sleep around and have multiple partners the same as I know many heterosexuals who both do and dont lead promiscuous lives, I dont see this as a black and white issue at all...... :think:

 

[red77]

I'm heading out for some coffee and donuts. Would anyone like any? I hope nobody is executed before I get back.

Ere, what about the popcorn man?!

 

[zoo22]

I'll have a couple of doughnuts please!

If you don't let me have them.. I might have to execute you.

:devil: :execute:

Ere, what about the popcorn man?!

You guys should have spoken up sooner.

Or if the executing me thing is true, I guess I should have stuck around a little longer to wait for an answer.

I did bring some coffee and donuts to some homeless folks on the walk back. They were glad about it. I think I did it for myself as much as for them though. But I guess they probably don't care much about that.

So if I'm getting executed for not bringing donuts back, I know I went out on a good note.

It's still pitch black outside. I've been getting up early.

Sorry for the distraction. Back to the stone throwing.

Also, I see there have been a few new "no" votes in the past few days. That's good.

EDIT: I see there were a few new "yes" votes too. lain:

EDIT: Also LMOHM, I do have a donut left. If it will halt the execution, you're welcome to it. (sorry Red).

 

[red77]

You guys should have spoken up sooner.

Or if the executing me thing is true, I guess I should have stuck around a little longer to wait for an answer.

I did bring some coffee and donuts to some homeless folks on the walk back. They were glad about it. I think I did it for myself as much as for them though. But I guess they probably don't care much about that.

So if I'm getting executed for not bringing donuts back, I know I went out on a good note.

It's still pitch black outside. I've been getting up early.

Sorry for the distraction. Back to the stone throwing.

Also, I see there have been a few new "no" votes in the past few days. That's good.

EDIT: I see there were a few new "yes" votes too. lain:

EDIT: Also LMOHM, I do have a donut left. If it will halt the execution, you're welcome to it. (sorry Red).

Oh yeah right, i'll bet you aint sorry at all....... :sozo2:

 

[Lighthouse]

It should also be known that crimes like murder and homosexuality and other sexual sins were wrong BEFORE the Law of Moses was given. A good sign that they are NOT symbolic.

True.

 

[Lighthouse]

If you feel like elaborating, go ahead. But all I really want to know is how you decide what sins still deserve the death penalty.

All sins deserve eternal death, separation from God for eternity. But Christ died for us, taking the punishment of our sins upon Himself. And being God, He did not need to stay separated eternally, so He rose allowing us to receive new life in Him.

However, only certain crimes deserve the death penalty, in the justice system.

So your question is really, "what crimes should deserve the death penalty, always," isn't it?

 

[Lighthouse]

You are allowed to do them, although you will have to deal with the government if you do a couple of those listed.

But, according to you, the government should not be allowed to punish us for those things, because we are no longer under the law, right?

 

[Lighthouse]

Murder (Exodus 21:12, Exodus 21:15)
Kidnapping (Exodus 21:16)
Disobedience to parents (Exodus 21:17, Deuteronomy 21:18)
Juvenile delinquency - incorrigibility (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
Bestiality (Leviticus 20:15)
Violations of the Sabbath (Exodus 31:15)
Adultery (Leviticus 20:10)
Abominations (Leviticus 20:2)
Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:16)
Incest (Leviticus 20:11)
Homosexuality (Leviticus 20:13)
Witchcraft (Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 20:27)
False prophecy (Deuteronomy 13:5)
Worshipping a false god (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)
Sacrificing to false gods (Exodus 22:20)
Sodomy (Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13)
Sex with a woman betrothed to another (Deuteronomy 22:25)
False witness in a capital crime (Deuteronomy 19:16-20)
Fornication by daughters of priests (Leviticus 21:9)
Failure to abide by a decision of the High Court (Deuteronomy 17:12)
Unchastity (Deuteronomy 22:21-24)
Cursing someone (Leviticus 24:14)
Negligence resulting in death (Exodus 21:29)

I'm reposting this to keep the list handy...

 

[Kimberlyann]

All sins deserve eternal death, separation from God for eternity. But Christ died for us, taking the punishment of our sins upon Himself. And being God, He did not need to stay separated eternally, so He rose allowing us to receive new life in Him.

However, only certain crimes deserve the death penalty, in the justice system.

So your question is really, "what crimes should deserve the death penalty, always," isn't it?

I guess you can put it that way. The question still stands, how do you decide? Do you use you own moral judgment, or do you have chapter and verse that tells us what sins still deserve the death penalty?

I can see executing violent criminal offenders, to protect society. But I don't see how it's any one's business what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms.

Let God decide who deserves to die for carnal sins. I'm sure it would be no problem for a all powerful God to strike them dead if He wanted to. So why don't you just, let go and let God?