Shooting at SC Church During Bible Study - Suspect still at large

rainee

New member
Why are you defending a Liberal Democrat flag?
I'm not defending anything except trying to get you who have been lied to, to stop and think about the truth.
I am proud of South Carolina.
They were hurt and horrified by what happened there but to add insult to injury their flag then became partially to blame. But with old Southern grace they have done what is best for us all.

I cried because Christians were attacked and killed, I don't think a twenty year old shooter is any easier to understand now than when they shoot at a school or mall.

But liberals have it all worked out in their simple minded Mickey Mouse way. Sigh.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
There were free black people in the south already that owned property. And they too used slave labor.
So it wasn't a race thing. It was a business thing.

Unbelievable!

Where any of the slaves that the black plantation owners owned white?

Somehow you guys now think that if a slave owner was black, and the slaves were black, then that sort of slavery was just "a business thing", and there was really no racism at all in the South back then.

:bang:
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
The north was abusing the shipping and port taxes of goods from the south.

The north didn't want to give in, so they conjured up a way to destroy the south by bankrupting them into submission.
Get rid of the slave labor and the south would lose money, crops, and goods for lack of labor.

There were free black people in the south already that owned property. And they too used slave labor.
So it wasn't a race thing. It was a business thing.

But we have gotten quite off track from the OP. So I'm gonna let this rabbit trail go.


In fact, the 1860 census shows about 3,500 free blacks who owned slaves in the South.
 

rexlunae

New member
The north was abusing the shipping and port taxes of goods from the south.

The north didn't want to give in, so they conjured up a way to destroy the south by bankrupting them into submission.
Get rid of the slave labor and the south would lose money, crops, and goods for lack of labor.

That's a good trick. How did they convince the South to secede?

There were free black people in the south already that owned property.

But per the Dred Scott decision, they weren't citizens.

And they too used slave labor.
So it wasn't a race thing. It was a business thing.

That simply doesn't follow. First of all, slavery was a racially defined institution. It's true that you could be black and an owner, but you couldn't be white and a slave, at least per the law. And the South very clearly had in mind a racial construction of the institution, if you believe the things that they said about it. There are several reasons that blacks might have owned other blacks, including as a way to keep their families together.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
They were hurt and horrified by what happened there but to add insult to injury their flag then became partially to blame.

Only because that flag symbolizes racism and hate. It always has.

I can't imagine how it would feel to be black and half to walk past that racist flag flying next to the State Building after a racist just murdered 9 black people.

Dylan Roof didn't take all those pictures with a Confederate Flag because of his Southern Heritage, he did so because that flag symbolized the hate he had for black people

150620-dylann-roof-mn-1315_c2f7d0a707598be74cdb91774d5942e7.nbcnews-fp-360-360.jpg
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
In fact, the 1860 census shows about 3,500 free blacks who owned slaves in the South.

Mostly free blacks who purchased family members, so their family members wouldn't be slaves to someone else.

It's amazing that you are defending slavery.
 

rainee

New member
Unbelievable!

Where any of the slaves that the black plantation owners owned white?

Somehow you guys now think that if a slave owner was black, and the slaves were black, then that sort of slavery was just "a business thing", and there was really no racism at all in the South back then.

:bang:
Stop Tet, you know where these people were coming from, people called natives were captured by enemy tribes and sold to ships who sold slaves.

It was horrible.
But not seeing others as human is what we are growing valiantly away from.
I thank The Lord it is not here in the US anymore just as Bybee tried to say.
Unfortunately it can still be found in places is all over the world.

But don't expect to hear my President say that.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Lysander Spooner

The question of treason is distinct from that of slavery; and is the same that it would have been, if free States, instead of slave States, had seceded.

On the part of the North, the war was carried on, not to liberate slaves, but by a government that had always perverted and violated the Constitution, to keep the slaves in bondage; and was still willing to do so, if the slaveholders could be thereby induced to stay in the Union.

The principle, on which the war was waged by the North, was simply this: That men may rightfully be compelled to submit to, and support, a government that they do not want; and that resistance, on their part, makes them traitors and criminals.

No principle, that is possible to be named, can be more self-evidently false than this; or more self-evidently fatal to all political freedom. Yet it triumphed in the field, and is now assumed to be established. If it really be established, the number of slaves, instead of having been diminished by the war, has been greatly increased; for a man, thus subjected to a government that he does not want, is a slave. And there is no difference, in principle --- but only in degree --- between political and chattel slavery. The former, no less than the latter, denies a man's ownership of himself and the products of his labor; and asserts that other men may own him, and dispose of him and his property, for their uses, and at their pleasure.

Previous to the war, there were some grounds for saying that --- in theory, at least, if not in practice --- our government was a free one; that it rested on consent. But nothing of that kind can be said now, if the principle on which the war was carried on by the North, is irrevocably established.

If that principle be not the principle of the Constitution, the fact should be known. If it be the principle of the Constitution, the Constitution itself should be at once overthrown.
 

musterion

Well-known member
In fact, the 1860 census shows about 3,500 free blacks who owned slaves in the South.

Now now, let's have none of those inconvenient facts o' history. Some here can't process them; goes against the programming.

(now please mention the African tribesmen who conquered and sold other Africans to The White Man)
 

Daniel1611

New member
Kind of odd that this young kid's Facebook account was just created earlier this year. Almost as odd that the alleged Sandy Hook shooter didn't even have a Facebook, MySpace, twitter, nothing.
 

rexlunae

New member
The question of treason is distinct from that of slavery; and is the same that it would have been, if free States, instead of slave States, had seceded.

Agreed.

On the part of the North, the war was carried on, not to liberate slaves,

There's some truth to that, but like most everything, you can't draw completely binary distinctions like that. There were many in the North who wanted to abolish slavery, and many who didn't, and many who didn't care, and the same could be said of the South. As the war progressed, more of the North saw slavery as an evil that had to be ended, because they actually came into direct contact with it.

...but by a government that had always perverted and violated the Constitution, to keep the slaves in bondage; and was still willing to do so, if the slaveholders could be thereby induced to stay in the Union.

Largely because of the participation of the South in the government. The Fugitive Slave Act. The Dred Scott case. The compromise of 1850. The annexation of Texas and the war with Mexico. Bleeding Kansas. The Slave Power, partially a result of the fact that while slaves couldn't vote, they were counted as 3/5 of a person for Congressional and Electoral College representation, was the control that Southern states exercised over the federal government leading up to the Civil War, and it was a real fear in the North.

The principle, on which the war was waged by the North, was simply this: That men may rightfully be compelled to submit to, and support, a government that they do not want; and that resistance, on their part, makes them traitors and criminals.

The South was perfectly happy with the union as long as they were successful in imposing their will on the North. In fact, they expanded it quite a bit in an effort to bolster the Slave Power. You simply can't have a union that only withstands as long as one side is winning, and moreover, secession to preserve slavery is facially illegitimate.

No principle, that is possible to be named, can be more self-evidently false than this; or more self-evidently fatal to all political freedom.

If the South had seceded for a just cause, you might have a point.

Yet it triumphed in the field, and is now assumed to be established. If it really be established, the number of slaves, instead of having been diminished by the war, has been greatly increased; for a man, thus subjected to a government that he does not want, is a slave. And there is no difference, in principle --- but only in degree --- between political and chattel slavery.

That's just about the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. You mean to tell me that you think living in a country where you have political rights and a say in the government, where your rights are protected, where you have vast freedoms of self-determination and free movement, is the same as being deprived of those things? Because they don't let you go start your own country whenever you want? Because there are actual laws that you fall under? I just don't know what to tell you other than that that's breathtakingly stupid.

The former, no less than the latter, denies a man's ownership of himself and the products of his labor; and asserts that other men may own him, and dispose of him and his property, for their uses, and at their pleasure.

I guess the South gets a pass on denying the right of Northern states to their self-determination leading up to the war then? And I guess the alternative to being able to secede at will from a political union is complete ownership? Is that what you're saying?

There's no government in the world that could survive if its members each individually were allowed to leave at any time for any reason. Certainly not the Confederacy. Every Confederate state contributed troops to the Union army. Did those states ask the permission of those individuals before attempting to rip them from their country?

Previous to the war, there were some grounds for saying that --- in theory, at least, if not in practice --- our government was a free one; that it rested on consent. But nothing of that kind can be said now, if the principle on which the war was carried on by the North, is irrevocably established.

Well, not the consent of the slaves, certainly. No government has the consent of everyone living under it, nor could that ever be achieved. What matters is the justice of the causes, and on balance, that pendulum swung far in the favor of the Union.

If that principle be not the principle of the Constitution, the fact should be known. If it be the principle of the Constitution, the Constitution itself should be at once overthrown.

Good luck with that. I don't think you're going to get much support for the idea.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER

So what?

I don't care what color the skin is of the slave owner. The slaves were black and they were slaves because of the color of their skin.

There was a Jew on the $2.00 Confederacy currency. The Jews profited the most from the slave ports in Surinam. The Jews were all for the slave trade.

It's still wrong.

The Confederacy fought for slavery.

The Confederate Flag is a racist flag that symbolizes slavery.

What part of "only black people were slaves" do you not understand?
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
You'll make Granite cry!

I still don't understand why a Republican and/or Conservative such as you is defending a Democrat flag?

Everything about the Confederate Flag is rooted in the Democrats.

The Republicans have had nothing to do with the Confederate Flag, yet all I see on here is Republicans/Conservatives defending the Confederate Flag.

Do you live in the South or something?

Are all you Republicans who are defending the Confederate Flag from the South?
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
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