Sexual Orientation is not a Choice

[glassjester]

We know they do, the question before you is why.

I'd say the reasons are as numerous as the sins. Pleasure-seeking, selfishness, self-delusion, rebellion, spite, laziness...

I couldn't possibly know the cause for each and every sin of each and every person.

 

[CabinetMaker]

I'd say the reasons are as numerous as the sins. Pleasure-seeking, selfishness, self-delusion, rebellion, spite, laziness...

I couldn't possibly know the cause for each and every sin of each and every person.

Since we are only discussing one, limit your response to that. What day or what series of choices did you make that lead you to only prefer men as partners? How old were you? Was there ever ANY doubt in your mind?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Did you choose and develop your own taste in music, food, and books?

I'm really not sure what your point is with this. I didn't choose to be born with perfect pitch although I enjoy having it. I didn't choose to enjoy the music I like, it kinda chooses me and I go with it. I didn't choose to have an aversion to peanuts and I didn't choose to be exclusively drawn to the opposite sex. What exactly are you trying to do here?

 

[Tinark]

Sexual orientation can't be chosen, because sexual orientation does not exist. The concept wasn't even invented until relatively recently.

Partner preferences do exist. Partner preferences include just about every physical and personal trait a person could have.

Partner preferences are formed by our own actions and our own choices. Our preference in partners equate to our "taste in people."

In this sense, our taste in people is no different from taste in music, taste in art, taste in literature, and taste in food.

Our tastes are shaped by our own choices and actions. Taste in partners is no exception. We choose what music to listen to, what books to read, and what food to eat.

Serious question: are you old enough to have gone through puberty and feel sexual attraction yet?

 

[Rusha]

I'd say the reasons are as numerous as the sins. Pleasure-seeking, selfishness, self-delusion, rebellion, spite, laziness...

I couldn't possibly know the cause for each and every sin of each and every person.

And we know you didn't make your choice for the same reasons you claim ... why?

Because you say so.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Even a chemical dependence can be changed by the choices you make.

All of our tastes are authored by ourselves.

Er, no they aren't. By your logic I could open a jar of peanut butter and suddenly start enjoying the taste even though I hate the stuff. I can choose to avoid it and that's where my 'authoring' begins and ends.

 

[StanJ]

Every thing a person does is based on his/her choice.
Orientation is just a condition and result of choice.

 

[glassjester]

Er, no they aren't. By your logic I could open a jar of peanut butter and suddenly start enjoying the taste even though I hate the stuff.

Suddenly? No.

Over time, yes. Doesn't this exact sort of thing happen pretty regularly?

Isn't that what an acquired taste is?

 

[glassjester]

Every thing a person does is based on his/her choice.

Yes.

 

[glassjester]

Serious question: are you old enough to have gone through puberty and feel sexual attraction yet?

Serious answer: Yes.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Suddenly? No.

Over time, yes. Doesn't this exact sort of thing happen pretty regularly?

Isn't that what an acquired taste is?

Why would it have to be over time if I'm the author of what I like/dislike? You're arguing against yourself here.

 

[Tinark]

Serious answer: Yes.

And when you look at whoever you are attracted to, at what point did you choose to feel aroused?

 

[glassjester]

And when you look at whoever you are attracted to, at what point did you choose to feel aroused?

My wife? Or do you mean women in general?

 

[Rusha]

Are those the only two options for someone who prefers partners of their own gender?

I will allow for three. Marry the opposite sex and be miserable.

Choose to be with the adult you are drawn to ...

Remain celibate and alone.

More importantly, is there any reason to believe that our taste in partners is fundamentally different than our tastes in any other things?

Anytime it has to do with strong emotions and interacting with others, it does.

I have never said that someone couldn't choose to marry someone they are not drawn to OR remain celibate. I am just stating flat out that I know I didn't choose to be attracted to the opposite sex. I can remember as far back as when I was five thinking little boys at school or at Sunday school were cute. I didn't see girls in the same way.

I never could make myself be attracted to someone of the same sex ... because my sexual orientation was not a choice. Why on earth would I believe that others have not had the same experience?

IF a homosexual OR heterosexual choose to remain celibate for reasons of their own, that is spiffy. The problem is when you choose to play mind reader and tell everyone else what and who they are attracted to and what and who they should be attracted to.

 

[Tinark]

My wife? Or do you mean women in general?

Women in general, including your wife before you married her. I'm assuming that whatever you felt when you met her for the first time was both involuntary and also not something you felt when looking at shirtless men of the same age.

Am I correct?

 

[glassjester]

Women in general, including your wife before you married her. I'm assuming that whatever you felt when you met her for the first time was both involuntary and also not something you felt when looking at shirtless men of the same age.

Am I correct?

Yes, and my choice to encourage that feeling, and to continue seeing her was 100% voluntary.

 

[Tinark]

Yes, and my choice to encourage that feeling, and to continue seeing her was 100% voluntary.

But the initial feeling you had for her and the initial feelings you had for women in general is also what defines your sexual orientation, and that was not voluntary.

I agree that to engage with someone in a relationship after that is voluntary.

 

[glassjester]

But the initial feeling you had for her and the initial feelings you had for women in general is also what defines your sexual orientation, and that was not voluntary.

I agree that to engage with someone in a relationship after that is voluntary.

I think my attraction to my wife was preceded by my "taste in women" (ie, hair color), which in turn was preceded by my preference for women.

It seems like partner preference might be a sort of successive narrowing down of potential mates.


Do you think a man who says something like "I'm only into blondes" could never even be capable of becoming attracted to a brunette? Do you think he was born that way, or was his taste in partners somehow formed over time?

 

[CabinetMaker]

I think my attraction to my wife was preceded by my "taste in women" (ie, hair color), which in turn was preceded by my preference for women.

It seems like partner preference might be a sort of successive narrowing down of potential mates.


Do you think a man who says something like "I'm only into blondes" could never even be capable of becoming attracted to a brunette? Do you think he was born that way, or was his taste in partners somehow formed over time?

I have always found Asian women to be the most attractive. I had no trouble at all dating, and marrying, women who were not Asian so yes, a man who is "into blonds" is fully capable of being attracted to a brunette.

 

[Tinark]

I think my attraction to my wife was preceded by my "taste in women" (ie, hair color), which in turn was preceded by my preference for women.

It seems like partner preference might be a sort of successive narrowing down of potential mates.


Do you think a man who says something like "I'm only into blondes" could never even be capable of becoming attracted to a brunette? Do you think he was born that way, or was his taste in partners somehow formed over time?

Orientation and preferences are a scale. It's not a simple yes/no.

There are various degrees/strengths of attraction. Such a friend may feel a stronger attraction to blondes but likely will still feel aroused by the thought of sex with brunette (just not as strongly), and may feel no arousal at the thought of sex involving another man.

The preference can certainly change over time - such a friend will almost certainly feel some attraction to a good looking brunette (not as strongly as blondes), may form a relationship with a brunette, and, as a result, their attraction to brunettes can strengthen.

This does not mean however that any and all change in preference is possible. Whatever the particular features of women he may find attractive, he will not be able to change his preferences to where he no longer finds any women attractive and only finds men attractive.