Sexual Orientation is not a Choice

[Rusha]

Even a chemical dependence can be changed by the choices you make.

All of our tastes are authored by ourselves.

So ... you could make the choice to no longer love your spouse, children, parents, friends, etc. by telling yourself you need to?

 

[glassjester]

I was not able to choose to stop drinking, and stop. I had to have a great deal of help. I chose to accept that help, and follow directions.

Your choices ultimately overcame a chemical dependence. Is that much true?

 

[glassjester]

So ... you could make the choice to no longer love your spouse, children, parents, friends, etc. by telling yourself you need to?

Yes. But I do not have a morally compelling reason to stop loving my spouse. So I will not.

 

[Rusha]

Yes. But I do not have a morally compelling reason to stop loving my spouse. So I will not.

What if someone else gave you what they felt was a *morally compelling reason*?

BTW, the idea of being able to turn love off and on like a water faucet kind of cheapens love.

 

[CabinetMaker]

IF you have any gay acquaintances, you should ask them what day they chose to be gay and why they chose it. Ask your straight friends the same question. Answer it yourself, what day did you choose to be heterosexual? Why did you make that choice.

 

[glassjester]

What if someone else gave you what they felt was a *morally compelling reason*?

If the reasoning was sound, I'd have to agree.

BTW, the idea of being able to turn love off and on like a water facet kind of cheapens love.

I'd argue the opposite. Freely chosen love is the only love worth having. Robotic, I-can't-help-it, external-locus-of-control love is pretty worthless.

 

[CabinetMaker]

If the reasoning was sound, I'd have to agree.




I'd argue the opposite. Freely chosen love is the only love worth having. Robotic, I-can't-help-it, external-locus-of-control love is pretty worthless.

That's kinda the way we love our kids...

 

[glassjester]

IF you have any gay acquaintances, you should ask them what day they chose to be gay and why they chose it. Ask your straight friends the same question. Answer it yourself, what day did you choose to be heterosexual? Why did you make that choice.

They never chose their orientation. There is no orientation. They simply have a certain taste in partners.

And I can't ask what day they acquired their taste in partners. Tastes are not a single choice made in a single day - they are the cummulative result of many, many choices, made over a long period of time.

Same with taste in music, food, books, etc. Tastes are developed.

 

[Rusha]

If the reasoning was sound, I'd have to agree.

Oh, so it would be up to *you* to determine if their reason was sound?

I'd argue the opposite. Freely chosen love is the only love worth having. Robotic, I-can't-help-it, external-locus-of-control love is pretty worthless.

Disagree all you like ... though until a time comes that you can make a choice to love and marry your worst enemy, you cannot show love is chosen.

 

[glassjester]

Oh, so it would be up to *you* to determine if their reason was sound?

Huh?

Disagree all you like ... though until a time comes that you can make a choice to love and marry your worst enemy, you cannot show love is chosen.

I didn't choose who to marry?

 

[Rusha]

Huh?

I didn't choose who to marry?

Okay. IF your friends, family, co-workers, church congregation insisted you should marry your worst enemy, would you?

IF they told you to leave your spouse, would you?

I am trying to establish just how much another person's views affect you when it comes to these types of decisions.

 

[glassjester]

My claim is only this. You are the author of your tastes.

All of your tastes - taste in music, art, food, everything. Your decisions shape these.


Taste in partners is no exception.

 

[glassjester]

Okay. IF your friends, family, co-workers, church congregation insisted you should marry your worst enemy, would you?

IF they told you to leave your spouse, would you?

I am trying to establish just how much another person's views affect you when it comes to these types of decisions.

Doesn't their reason matter?

 

[PureX]

Your choices ultimately overcame a chemical dependence. Is that much true?

No, it's not true.

It was my surrender to a power greater than myself that finally stopped me from drinking. And it was the lack of any other choice that made me surrender.

I realize this is a bit of a paradox, but all great truths are paradoxical from our limited human perspective.

My point is that we do not choose who we are. We can only choose who we will become in response to who we are, now.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Gays have chosen to be who they are.

I agree. Homosexuality is a CHOSEN sin of the flesh.

 

[glassjester]

No, it's not true.

It was my surrender to a power greater than myself that finally stopped me from drinking. And it was the lack of any other choice that made me surrender.

The surrender... was your choice, wasn't it?

As for lacking any other choice - you said yourself other people die rather than stop. So that was the other choice.

Still - this has little bearing on my initial claim.
Your taste in mates is no different than your taste in food, music, or books. It is shaped by your choices.

 

[Rusha]

Doesn't their reason matter?

It depends ... does THEIR reason disregard the fact that they prefer someone remain alone for the rest of their life rather than be with someone they love?

 

[quip]

Sexual orientation can't be chosen, because sexual orientation does not exist. The concept wasn't even invented until relatively recently.

Partner preferences do exist. Partner preferences include just about every physical and personal trait a person could have.

Partner preferences are formed by our own actions and our own choices. Our preference in partners equate to our "taste in people."

In this sense, our taste in people is no different from taste in music, taste in art, taste in literature, and taste in food.

Our tastes are shaped by our own choices and actions. Taste in partners is no exception. We choose what music to listen to, what books to read, and what food to eat.

So, do we choose to enjoy food, music, books apriori?

A homosexual male may choose to have sex with another particular male via a natural predisposition toward such.

Conflating the the two is not proof of your allegation.

 

[glassjester]

It depends ... does THEIR reason disregard the fact that they prefer someone remain alone for the rest of their life rather than be with someone they love?

Are those the only two options for someone who prefers partners of their own gender?

More importantly, is there any reason to believe that our taste in partners is fundamentally different than our tastes in any other things?

 

[glassjester]

A homosexual male may choose to have sex with another particular male via a natural predisposition toward such.

Choosing to appeasing that particular desire reinforces it and makes it more likely for the individual to choose it again in the future, doesn't it?

Thereby shaping the person's taste in partners.