Sexual Orientation is not a Choice

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
My claim is only this. You are the author of your tastes.

All of your tastes - taste in music, art, food, everything. Your decisions shape these.


Taste in partners is no exception.
Sure there is. Brussel sprouts. I love them. My daughter hates them. Turns out there is a gene that makes sprouts unusually bitter to certain people and they will never like them because they are too bitter. It is not a choice they made, it is a physical reality of their genetic code.

So, your assertion is wrong. There are certain tastes that are dictated by genetics.

Other tastes are not determined by you in all cases either. Take music. Your taste in music is determined in large part by others. My parents listened to easy listening and classical music as I grew up so I really enjoy those types of music. I didn't have a choice. Their radio, they picked the station.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
They never chose their orientation. There is no orientation. They simply have a certain taste in partners.
Do you realize how useless a distinction you are trying to draw? What the world understands as sexual orientation you want to rename taste in partners. The only reason for doing so is to make something that is not their "fault", their fault.

And I can't ask what day they acquired their taste in partners. Tastes are not a single choice made in a single day - they are the cummulative result of many, many choices, made over a long period of time.

Same with taste in music, food, books, etc. Tastes are developed.
So what choices led you to heterosexuality? Did you even explorer homosexuality as an option? If not, why not? If you never experimented, how could you make an informed set of choices?
 

quip

BANNED
Banned
Choosing to appeasing that particular desire reinforces it and makes it more likely for the individual to choose it again in the future, doesn't it?

Thereby shaping the person's taste in partners.

I would like to think such experiences refine a person's taste in partners...though this is not pertinent to the allegation of homosexuality being a choice.
 

glassjester

Well-known member
So, your assertion is wrong. There are certain tastes that are dictated by genetics.


How do "acquired tastes" fit into this model?


My parents listened to easy listening and classical music as I grew up so I really enjoy those types of music. I didn't have a choice. Their radio, they picked the station.

You do shape your own taste in music. Kids do this all the time, to fit in with other groups of kids. They decide to "get into" a certain type of music, and then cultivate a taste for it.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
How do "acquired tastes" fit into this model?
certain =/= all. Also, see my music example.




You do shape your own taste in music. Kids do this all the time, to fit in with other groups of kids. They decide to "get into" a certain type of music, and then cultivate a taste for it.
Sure I do. But a lot of the music I like was determined by my parents choice, not mine. It was all I knew until I got control of a radio of my own. Didn't mean I stopped liking the music I grew up with, but my musical horizons broadened.
 

glassjester

Well-known member
Do you realize how useless a distinction you are trying to draw? What the world understands as sexual orientation you want to rename taste in partners. The only reason for doing so is to make something that is not their "fault", their fault.

"Orientation" implies that the status is immutable and congenital.
"Taste" implies that the status is gradual and self-directed.


So what choices led you to heterosexuality?

There is no such thing as heterosexuality.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
"Orientation" implies that the status is immutable and congenital.
"Taste" implies that the status is gradual and self-directed.
So you could teach yourself to be gay. Why don't you try? Is there something keeping you from trying? IF so, what?




There is no such thing as heterosexuality.
Heterosexuality is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behavior between persons of opposite sex.

Hmm, seems like heterosexuality is a real thing.
 

glassjester

Well-known member
So you could teach yourself to be gay. Why don't you try? Is there something keeping you from trying? IF so, what?

Why would I choose to cultivate a taste for an activity I consider morally wrong?


I could cultivate a taste for cocaine, but I don't want to.



Heterosexuality is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behavior between persons of opposite sex.

Hmm, seems like heterosexuality is a real thing.

There's a definition of "unicorn," too. Doesn't make it real.

What I mean by "heterosexuality doesn't exist," is that sexual orientation is a myth. There's no such thing as a person that's only capable of being attracted to a person with a certain trait - be it hair color, height, or gender. These preferences are cultivated in us - ultimately by our own choices.
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
No one naturally feels erotic love towards someone of their same sex. Truth is many prefer the company of their own sex. Making it sexual is a perversion! There is nothing wrong with two women living together, or not seeking marriage. There is a mental confusion about what love is when someone makes another kind of love into what it is not.

Types of love, love can be represented in other ways with different names, this is one example:
Agape
This is an unconditional love that sees beyond the outer surface and accepts the recipient for whom he/she is, regardless of their flaws, shortcomings or faults. It’s the type of love that everyone strives to have for their fellow human beings. Although you may not like someone, you decide to love them just as a human being. This kind of love is all about sacrifice as well as giving and expecting nothing in return. The translation of the word agape is love in the verb – form: it is the love demonstrated by your behavior towards another person. It is a committed and chosen love.
Phileo
The phileo love refers to an affectionate, warm and tender platonic love. It makes you desire friendship with someone. It’s the kind of love which livens up the Agape love. Although you may have an agape love for your enemies, you may not have a phileo love for the same people. The translation of the word phileo is love in the noun – form: it is how you feel about someone. It is a committed and chosen love.
Storge
It is a kind of family and friendship love. This is the love that parents naturally feel for their children; the love that member of the family have for each other; or the love that friends feel for each other. In some cases, this friendship love may turn into a romantic relationship, and the couple in such a relationship becomes best friends. Storge love is unconditional, accepts flaws or faults and ultimately drives you to forgive. It’s committed, sacrificial and makes you feel secure, comfortable and safe.
Eros
Eros is a passionate and intense love that arouses romantic feelings; it is the kind that often triggers “high” feelings in a new relationship and makes you say, “I love him/her”. It is simply an emotional and sexual love. Although this romantic love is important in the beginning of a new relationship, it may not last unless it moves a notch higher because it focuses more on self instead of the other person. If the person “in love” does not feel good about their relationship anymore, they will stop loving their partner.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Four_Loves
All sexual love begins with Eros. This love is the natural attraction to opposites, there is no Eros in homosexuality. What we find is Phileo, which is where we get the word ending, philia. As in homophilia, a platonic love made unnaturally sexual.a term once used to define “unnatural” relations between same-sex people in the early- to mid-20th century has been given a makeover. Urban gay communities around the world are using homophilia to mean an open, supportive and non-judgemental acceptance towards gays and lesbians. Again I see how a group of wayward people change the true meaning of a word to suit their agenda, yet the word itself will always mean a Paraphilia (also known as sexual perversion and sexual deviation) is the experience of intense sexual arousal to atypical objects, situations, or individuals
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraphilia
 

musterion

Well-known member
There is no such thing as heterosexuality.

If there's no such thing as heterosexuality then there can be no such thing as homosexuality.

In that case, since heterosexuality has been and still is the overwhelming 99-to-1 norm throughout human history, homosexuality is an aberration.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Why would I choose to cultivate a taste for an activity I consider morally wrong?
Then how do you explain the kids who grow up in homes that strongly teach that homosexuality is morally wrong coming out as gay? They know it will cost them their families and in many cases it does. Why do they choose to be gay knowing what you know?

There's a definition of "unicorn," too. Doesn't make it real.

What I mean by "heterosexuality doesn't exist," is that sexual orientation is a myth. There's no such thing as a person that's only capable of being attracted to a person with a certain trait - be it hair color, height, or gender. These preferences are cultivated in us - ultimately by our own choices.
I would have to conclude that you are flat out wrong. As was pointed out above, the terms "sexual orientation," "homosexuality," "heterosexuality," all have meaning. They have been defined to have specific meanings so that meaningful conversations can be had. What you are attempting to do adds no clarity to any conversation. There are already plenty of on-going debates as to whether sexual orientation is nature, nurture or some combination there of.
 

musterion

Well-known member
You didn't merely imply it here, you stated it outright:

You are the author of your tastes.

All of your tastes - taste in music, art, food, everything. Your decisions shape these.

Taste in partners is no exception.

And yet...

There's no such thing as "orientation."

You are a fool.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
I've heard that sometimes kids do things that their parents say are wrong.
I've heard that too. This is far beyond that. The stories I have read indicate that the child is not doing it out of spite towards their parent. What makes them choose something that they know is wrong before God?
 

glassjester

Well-known member
I've heard that too. This is far beyond that. The stories I have read indicate that the child is not doing it out of spite towards their parent. What makes them choose something that they know is wrong before God?

You could ask the same question about any sinful action, couldn't you?

Don't people do things they know are wrong all the time?


Why do they do that?
 
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