Sexual Orientation is not a Choice

[CabinetMaker]

1 John 1:

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.



Everyone sins.

There is no one on Earth that does not sin.



Lust is not a sin? Nonsense. And you know it.

And I am not judged for it. IT is not held against me. I am washed and made clean by what Jesus did for me.

 

[glassjester]

And I am not judged for it. IT is not held against me. I am washed and made clean by what Jesus did for me.

Washed and made clean of what?

What is it that Jesus washes away?

 

[glassjester]

You and I both know lust is a sin. You should not pretend to hold a false belief for the purpose of a conversation.

 

[CabinetMaker]

You and I both know lust is a sin. You should not pretend to hold a false belief for the purpose of a conversation.

I firmly believe that every sin for every person for all time was forgiven by what Jesus did on the cross. When we stand before God in judgment He will not roll out this list of sins and start checking them off. We have been washed clean by Christ's blood. What God will ask us is what did you do with my Son? If we have rejected Christ then we will be sent to the lake, if we proclaimed that Jesus is our Lord and Savior then we will be welcomed into the Kingdom.

All this discussion about what is sin and what is not is legalism and meaningless. Paul even said that the law cannot save us. Laws, and law, can only name the crime and punish. It cannot redeem. Jesus, on the other hand, can redeem us.

I am guilty of acts that under the law are considered sinful. As I am not under judgment by that law, I will not be judged for those sins. And that is truly a humbling thought. No matter how bad I have been, I am forgiven. And that makes me want to live a life worthy of such a gift.

Focusing on sin is what gives the RCC such power over peoples lives. The RCC tells them what is sinful and that their only hope for being forgiven by sin is to be RCC. And even then the best you can hope for is to shorten your stay in purgatory. That is not Jesus's gospel of freedom, that is lie of men to enslave people.

 

[glassjester]

I firmly believe that every sin for every person for all time was forgiven by what Jesus did on the cross. When we stand before God in judgment He will not roll out this list of sins and start checking them off. We have been washed clean by Christ's blood. What God will ask us is what did you do with my Son? If we have rejected Christ then we will be sent to the lake, if we proclaimed that Jesus is our Lord and Savior then we will be welcomed into the Kingdom.

All this discussion about what is sin and what is not is legalism and meaningless. Paul even said that the law cannot save us. Laws, and law, can only name the crime and punish. It cannot redeem. Jesus, on the other hand, can redeem us.

I am guilty of acts that under the law are considered sinful. As I am not under judgment by that law, I will not be judged for those sins. And that is truly a humbling thought. No matter how bad I have been, I am forgiven. And that makes me want to live a life worthy of such a gift.

I absolutely agree. I'm not trying to judge who will be saved and who will not. In fact, we're under strict instruction not to do that.

But we agree that lust is a sin. Can Jesus forgive that sin? Of course!

But it is a sin. No?

Focusing on sin is what gives the RCC such power over peoples lives. The RCC tells them what is sinful and that their only hope for being forgiven by sin is to be RCC. And even then the best you can hope for is to shorten your stay in purgatory. That is not Jesus's gospel of freedom, that is lie of men to enslave people.

What a strange belief.

 

[CabinetMaker]

I absolutely agree. I'm not trying to judge who will be saved and who will not. In fact, we're under strict instruction not to do that.

But we agree that lust is a sin. Can Jesus forgive that sin? Of course!

But it is a sin. No?

Only if you live under the law.

What a strange belief.

Not really, born out by history.

 

[glassjester]

Only if you live under the law.

So it's a sin for some people to lust. But not for you to lust.

Riiight...

 

[CabinetMaker]

So it's a sin for some people to lust. But not for you to lust.

Riiight...

Apart from the law, there is no sin. Do you live under the law?

 

[glassjester]

Apart from the law, there is no sin. Do you live under the law?

I sin.

Do you sin?

 

[CabinetMaker]

I sin.

Do you sin?

Were I under the law I would.

 

[glassjester]

Were I under the law I would.

And you are not under the law.

So you do not sin. Right?

 

[CabinetMaker]

And you are not under the law.

So you do not sin. Right?

I'll let Paul explain it.

Romans 7:7-25New International Version (NIV)

The Law and Sin

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”[a] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[b] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[c] a slave to the law of sin.

 

[glassjester]

Choosing to engage in immoral sex is the sin.

But only if they are under the law, right?

They are beloved of God. If they repent of their sinful acts they will be in the Kingdom right next to you.

But they cannot sin unless they are under the law, right?

In any case, the sin of homosexuality does not lie in experiencing sexual attraction for somebody of the same sex, it is in acting on it (unless you are looking at them lustfully).

Come on.

 

[CabinetMaker]

But only if they are under the law, right?




But they cannot sin unless they are under the law, right?






Come on.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4378744&postcount=372

 

[genuineoriginal]

That was not, of course, a genuine story. Saying you are married and had a ceremony doesn't mean the marriage wasn't imaginary.

:doh:

So-called "same sex marriages" are just like the picture.

Two people of the same gender in a pretend "wedding" that then go skipping off afterwards claiming that they are married.

 

[genuineoriginal]

ANd you have been told that your assertion is wrong. IT was term coined to make discussion of the topic easier, more refined. It was not coined to excuse a behavior though people do attempt to use it that way. A sociopath is orientated such that they are far more likely to become killers. When they do, we do not excuse their behavior because they were born that way, they are held accountable for it (we hope). Same with homosexuality, that you were born with those attractions does not mean that you are free to indulge them

So, why do you keep supporting the sociopaths (sodomites)?

I'm as liberal as Jesus was. I believe in caring for those who need it. I believe in high moral norms as defined in scripture. I think your homophobia, and it does appear to be a phobia with you, does far more to harm the Body of Christ than to help it.

Here is how liberal Jesus is concerning sin:

Matthew 5:27-30 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.​

Matthew 13:41-42 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.​

Wouldn't you rather see the sodomites repent and be saved than sit back and watch them burn?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Interesting question. Jesus says:
Matthew 5:27-28New International Version (NIV) 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

So it would seem that when we begin to lust after somebody we are not married to, we would be guilty of sin if judged under the law.

Taken in context, the woman in the verse is a married woman.

 

[CabinetMaker]

So, why do you keep supporting the sociopaths (sodomites)?

If you look at what I have actually said you would see that I have never supported them.

Here is how liberal Jesus is concerning sin:

Matthew 5:27-30 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.​

Matthew 13:41-42 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.​

Wouldn't you rather see the sodomites repent and be saved than sit back and watch them burn?

Yes I would. That is why I tell them that their acts will keep them out of heaven. The may repent and live celebrate, but that does not mean that they are not homosexual. Their orientation will not condemn them, their acts will.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Taken in context, the woman in the verse is a married woman.

Makes no difference whether the woman is married or not. She is guilty of nothing, the person looking with lust is the guilty party.

 

[Granite]

Taken in context, the woman in the verse is a married woman.

Changing or meaning what, specifically?