Sexual Orientation is not a Choice

[genuineoriginal]

Have you ever asked a homosexual when they chose to be homosexual?

Why should I?
You assume that there is a specific point in time that the person remembers where they decided that they would rebel against nature and become fixated on same gender sex.
Since the reality is that there was a cumulation of a lifetime of events and signals that turned their mind to believing that same gender sex was a way to cope with their deep emotional problems, most of them will be completely unable to pinpoint a specific moment in time or a specific thought that led them to become a sexual pervert.

And since you missed this, let me repost it for you: Tell us, what date did you choose to become a heterosexual? When did you say to yourself, "I am only going to like women from this point on."

Hmmm....
You are asking me for a specific date when I decided that I would not become a sexual pervert?
I would have to say that I make that decision daily.
:chuckle:

 

[CabinetMaker]

Of course it is.
It is a depraved self-identity that is based solely on the abnormal desire to have sex with someone of the same gender.

Well, its pretty obvious you are far to shallow to understand people.

Deep down they know that their abnormal desires have no legitimacy, so they want to marry in a vain attempt to convince themselves that the lie they are living is not a lie.

Are you sure about that? How could you possibly know what they believe deep down? It is equally possible that deep down they believe that their desires are perfectly normal.

Are you trying to avoid the issue?

I'm not but quite obviously are.

We are talking about how an abnormal desire for same gender sex is the defining factor of those that call themselves "homosexuals".

It is only the physical aspect of homosexuality, it is not the sole defining characteristic of homosexuality.

They try to legitimize their abnormal desire by calling normal people "heterosexuals" as if the normal desire to have sex with a person of the opposite gender was no different than their abnormal desire to have sex with people of the same gender.

In their mind, there is no difference. BY the way, is your marriage only about sex? I noticed that you avoided that question.

Yes, many attempts to stop homosexuals, pedophiles, rapists, and other sex offenders through counselling have failed. There are many reasons for the failure, but one of the biggest factor is that the chemicals produced in the brain by sexual gratification creates a feedback loop that reinforces the abnormal sexual desires.

The counselling I was referring to was to help the person deal with his issues about women that makes him prefer men, even if he has to sell his soul and have sex with the men in order to get them to spend time with him.

What issues might those be, hmmm? What makes you think he has to ha e sex with another man just to spend time with him? Don't you spend time with your male friends without having sex with them?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Why should I?
You assume that there is a specific point in time that the person remembers where they decided that they would rebel against nature and become fixated on same gender sex.
Since the reality is that there was a cumulation of a lifetime of events and signals that turned their mind to believing that same gender sex was a way to cope with their deep emotional problems, most of them will be completely unable to pinpoint a specific moment in time or a specific thought that led them to become a sexual pervert.

I note that you cannot tell us when you chose to be heterosexual so I'm wondering why you think homosexuals made a choice. Your "lifetime of events" is an attempt by you to avoid answer the questions of why kids raised in homes that are strongly anti-gay are gay. It avoids answering why young people who are first discovering their sexuality have always said they knew they were homosexual. Why do you work so hard to avoid those two questions.

Hmmm....
You are asking me for a specific date when I decided that I would not become a sexual pervert?
I would have to say that I make that decision daily.
:chuckle:

If i were you, I would seek counseling to deal those homosexual struggles you are wrestling with on a daily basis. That would explain your attitude on this thread quite well.

 

[Puppet]

Are you born a sinner or did your mother make you that way?

God arranged my mother to bring me here. That was the way I was made.

 

[genuineoriginal]

It is only the physical aspect of homosexuality, it is not the sole defining characteristic of homosexuality.

Same gender sex is the defining characteristic of homosexuality.

It has no other defining characteristic.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Same gender sex is the defining characteristic of homosexuality.

It has no other defining characteristic.

By your logic, the only defining characteristic of your marriage is sex.

 

[genuineoriginal]

By your logic, the only defining characteristic of your marriage is sex.

Then you are a moron.

Here is the definition for homosexual:

homosexual
of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex.​

Here is the definition for marriage:

MAR'RIAGE, noun [Latin mas, maris.] The act of uniting a man and woman for life; wedlock; the legal union of a man and woman for life. marriage is a contract both civil and religious, by which the parties engage to live together in mutual affection and fidelity, till death shall separate them. marriage was instituted by God himself for the purpose of preventing the promiscuous intercourse of the sexes, for promoting domestic felicity, and for securing the maintenance and education of children.​

 

[CabinetMaker]

Then you are a moron.

Here is the definition for homosexual:

homosexual
of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex.​

Here is the definition for marriage:

MAR'RIAGE, noun [Latin mas, maris.] The act of uniting a man and woman for life; wedlock; the legal union of a man and woman for life. marriage is a contract both civil and religious, by which the parties engage to live together in mutual affection and fidelity, till death shall separate them. marriage was instituted by God himself for the purpose of preventing the promiscuous intercourse of the sexes, for promoting domestic felicity, and for securing the maintenance and education of children.​

Definition games. Always entertaining.
het·er·o·sex·u·al
ˌhedərəˈsekSH(əw)əl/
adjective
adjective: heterosexual
1.
(of a person) sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex.

You are heterosexual, aren't you?

 

[genuineoriginal]

If i were you, I would seek counseling to deal those homosexual struggles you are wrestling with on a daily basis. That would explain your attitude on this thread quite well.

You are projecting your struggles with homosexuality onto me.

I simply stated that I make the decision to not become a sexual pervert every day, which is akin to this statement spoken by Job and the commentary provided by Matthew Henry:

Job 31:1 1 I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?​

Spoiler

Matthew Henry's Commentary on the verse:

1. What the resolutions were which, in this matter, he kept to (Job 31:1): I made a covenant with my eyes, that is, “I watched against the occasions of the sin; why then should I think upon a maid?” that is, “by that means, through the grace of God, I kept myself from the very first step towards it.” So far was he from wanton dalliances, or any act of lasciviousness, that, (1.) He would not so much as admit a wanton look. He made a covenant with his eyes, made this bargain with them, that he would allow them the pleasure of beholding the light of the sun and the glory of God shining in the visible creation, provided they would never fasten upon any object that might occasion any impure imaginations, much less any impure desires, in his mind; and under this penalty, that, if they did, they must smart for it in penitential tears. Note, Those that would keep their hearts pure must guard their eyes, which are both the outlets and inlets of uncleanness. Hence we read of wanton eyes (Isa. 3:16) and eyes full of adultery, 2 Pet. 2:14. The first sin began in the eye, Gen. 3:6. What we must not meddle with we must not lust after; and what we must not lust after we must not look at; not the forbidden wealth (Prov. 23:5), not the forbidden wine (Prov. 23:31), not the forbidden woman, Matt. 5:28. (2.) He would not so much as allow a wanton thought: “Why then should I think upon a maid with any unchaste fancy or desire towards her?” Shame and sense of honour might restrain him from soliciting the chastity of a beautiful virgin, but only grace and the fear of God would restrain him from so much as thinking of it. Those are not chaste that are not so in spirit as well as body,​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Definition games. Always entertaining.
het·er·o·sex·u·al
ˌhedərəˈsekSH(əw)əl/
adjective
adjective: heterosexual
1.
(of a person) sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex.

You are heterosexual, aren't you?

There is no such thing, heterosexual is a term created by sexual perverts in an attempt to make their sexual perversions appear normal.

You really have been having a hard time following along in this thread.

 

[CabinetMaker]

You are projecting your struggles with homosexuality onto me.

I simply stated that I make the decision to not become a sexual pervert every day, which is akin to this statement spoken by Job and the commentary provided by Matthew Henry:

Job 31:1 1 I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?​

Spoiler

Matthew Henry's Commentary on the verse:

1. What the resolutions were which, in this matter, he kept to (Job 31:1): I made a covenant with my eyes, that is, “I watched against the occasions of the sin; why then should I think upon a maid?” that is, “by that means, through the grace of God, I kept myself from the very first step towards it.” So far was he from wanton dalliances, or any act of lasciviousness, that, (1.) He would not so much as admit a wanton look. He made a covenant with his eyes, made this bargain with them, that he would allow them the pleasure of beholding the light of the sun and the glory of God shining in the visible creation, provided they would never fasten upon any object that might occasion any impure imaginations, much less any impure desires, in his mind; and under this penalty, that, if they did, they must smart for it in penitential tears. Note, Those that would keep their hearts pure must guard their eyes, which are both the outlets and inlets of uncleanness. Hence we read of wanton eyes (Isa. 3:16) and eyes full of adultery, 2 Pet. 2:14. The first sin began in the eye, Gen. 3:6. What we must not meddle with we must not lust after; and what we must not lust after we must not look at; not the forbidden wealth (Prov. 23:5), not the forbidden wine (Prov. 23:31), not the forbidden woman, Matt. 5:28. (2.) He would not so much as allow a wanton thought: “Why then should I think upon a maid with any unchaste fancy or desire towards her?” Shame and sense of honour might restrain him from soliciting the chastity of a beautiful virgin, but only grace and the fear of God would restrain him from so much as thinking of it. Those are not chaste that are not so in spirit as well as body,​

I'm just surprised you have to make the decision everyday. I don't. I'm happily married so I focus on that, not on things that might require me to make a choice.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I'm just surprised you have to make the decision everyday. I don't.

You are surprised that I choose to make the decision not to be led into temptation every day?

Have you never heard of the prayer Jesus gave us?

Matthew 6:9-13 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.​

 

[CabinetMaker]

There is no such thing, heterosexual is a term created by sexual perverts in an attempt to make their sexual perversions appear normal.

You really have been having a hard time following along in this thread.

I have had no trouble following this thread. You and others are attempting to make an argument that words used today have no meaning. It is a stupid argument because they do have meaning and they can be used in conversation to convey a clear meaning. You know exactly what is meant when somebody says homosexual or heterosexual.

You, and others, are doing this in a vain effort to claim that sexual orientation, another word that you don't like but none the less you know exactly what it means, is purely a matter of choice. You must do this as if there is any component of sexual orientation that is not heterosexual present at birth that means God had something to do with it. Since homosexuality is a mistake in your mind, God cannot have had anything to do with it because God does not make mistakes, or so the logic goes.

You ignore that we live in a fallen world and that our genes cause us problems. They convey nasty diseases that kill us or deform us or make us chronically ill. Did God make those mistakes? Or do we live in a world where our genes have become damaged resulting in less than desirable traits? I rather think we live with a gene pool that works against us at times.

You seem to thing that using terms like sexual orientation, homosexuality and heterosexuality some how make homosexuality acceptable. They don't. They are just terms we can use to facilitate a conversation. Attempting to change them to better fit with your agenda does nothing but make you feel a bit better about yourself.

You seem to thing that homosexuals are attracted to their own sex based on the sex act alone. Research does not support you in this. They are people and attraction between two people occurs on multiple levels, both physical and mental.

Does all this mean that I am pro gay marriage? Of course not. Homosexual sex is as immoral as fornication and adultery. It simply means that I am capable of having an honest conversation about the matter without the need to resort to petty little tactics to protect God.

You may not agree with my assessment, but that is what this conversation is about.

 

[CabinetMaker]

You are surprised that I choose to make the decision not to be led into temptation every day?

Have you never heard of the prayer Jesus gave us?

Matthew 6:9-13 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.​

Given what we were specifically discussing, yes. I am surprised that you are tempted by homosexuality everyday.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I have had no trouble following this thread. You and others are attempting to make an argument that words used today have no meaning.

Like I said, you are having trouble following this thread.

_____
During 1869, in the course of these writings, Kertbeny published the term (in German) "homosexual" (which, along with heterosexual, he first used in private correspondence on May 8, 1868), as part of his system for the classification of sexual types, as a replacement for the pejorative terms "sodomite" and "pederast" that were used in the German- and French-speaking world of his time. In addition, he called the attraction between men and women "heterosexualism", masturbators "monosexualists", and practitioners of anal intercourse "pygists".
source
_____​

I suppose for the sake of argument we will need to return to using sodomite instead of homosexual.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Like I said, you are having trouble following this thread.

_____
During 1869, in the course of these writings, Kertbeny published the term (in German) "homosexual" (which, along with heterosexual, he first used in private correspondence on May 8, 1868), as part of his system for the classification of sexual types, as a replacement for the pejorative terms "sodomite" and "pederast" that were used in the German- and French-speaking world of his time. In addition, he called the attraction between men and women "heterosexualism", masturbators "monosexualists", and practitioners of anal intercourse "pygists".
source
_____​

I suppose for the sake of argument we will need to return to using sodomite instead of homosexual.

Thank you for providing a reference that proves my point: the words we use today do, in fact, have meaning.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Given what we were specifically discussing, yes. I am surprised that you are tempted by homosexuality everyday.

Homosexuality is one of many sexual perversions deemed by God as being worthy of death, others include adultery, incest, and bestiality.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.​

I was an adulterer and as such I am as deserving of the death penalty as any homosexual.

Perhaps you think I was born an adulterer and that adultery was my "sexual orientation."

 

[genuineoriginal]

Thank you for providing a reference that proves my point: the words we use today do, in fact, have meaning.

Yes, the word "homosexual" has the meaning of "I don't want to use the word sodomite because it is offensive".

:chuckle:

 

[Quetzal]

Homosexuality is one of many sexual perversions deemed by God as being worthy of death, others include adultery, incest, and bestiality.

When you start offing people for cheating on their SO, I will stop classifying you as an ignorant hypocrite. Until then, your bigoted rants only add to the collection on this forum.

 

[genuineoriginal]

When you start offing people for cheating on their SO, I will stop classifying you as an ignorant hypocrite. Until then, your bigoted rants only add to the collection on this forum.

You seem to be ignorant of what the Bible states about "offing people".

Exodus 21:12 12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.​

Now, why would you imagine that I would want to commit a sin worthy of death when I am currently speaking out against others committing a sin worthy of death?

Leviticus 20:13 13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.​

No, I am not trying to put people to death, that is supposed to be the job of the government.

Romans 13:4 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.​

All I am doing is making sure that people remember that God has declared that sodomy is a sin that deserves the death penalty so they have no excuse to continue in that sin but stand condemned.

The goal is not to see the sodomite put to death, but to see the sodomite repent and be saved.