Sexual Orientation is not a Choice

[genuineoriginal]

In an very odd sort of way, yes. I have become a man very much like my father.

I am assuming you are referring to non-physical traits, since those are the traits most people refer to when they make a remark like that.

You should think about how much the non-physical traits of the person you chose to marry affected your choice to marry her.

If your choice was determined solely by bra cup size, and she had to have a mastectomy, then your entire reason for marrying her would be gone.

 

[CabinetMaker]

But...

What about it? We are born with an orientation. Our preferences may vary widely within our orientation and may include preferences that appear at odds with our orientation at times. For the vast majority of people, they will never change their basic orientation. They may try to hide it like Ted Haggard did. They may embrace it. Orientation is amoral. How they act is either moral or immoral.

As a single man, it would be immoral for me to have sex with any woman.
As a married man, it would be immoral for me to have sex with any woman but my wife.
As a homosexual, it would be immoral for me to have homosexual sex.

Simply being homo or hetero in orientation is not a sin.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Those first sexual attractions also developed over time, which is why they appear to bloom as fully-developed attractions at puberty. A person's first sexual attractions are towards people the physical traits similar to people they knew when they were growing up because of the emotional (non-sexual) feelings they had towards the people they knew with those physical traits.


False dichotomy.


Neither.

You know, you will not get far in a debate if you can only think in terms of a false dichotomy.

There is no false dichotomy. We are born as male or female. We are naturally attracted to one or the other (sometimes both). When did you choose to be only attracted to women?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Its not an excuse for anything, it is a descriptive term used to facilitate conversation.

Consider: I am heterosexual. That is my sexual orientation.

The terms homosexual and heterosexual were developed in order to promote acceptance of same-sex sexual acts, not to facilitate conversation.

When that proved not to be enough, the term sexual orientation was invented.

Does that make it okay for me to have sex with any woman I want?

Do you know of reasons for you to not have sex with any woman you want?
Could any of those reasons be used as arguments against a person having sex with another person of their same gender?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Are people who commit adultery acting in accordance with their sexual orientation?

Are you now claiming that adultery is a sexual orientation?

 

[CabinetMaker]

This seems to be the part people leave out.

Because its not true. When we enter puberty, we are naturally attracted to males or females. Over time, our tastes evolve and refine. But when we first start looking at other people, we will be attracted the same sex or the opposite sex. The tastes that develop over time will be based on that first choice.

What I find interesting is that I have asked several people when they chose to be heterosexual. Thus far, I am the only one who has actually answered that question directly. Why wont you?

 

[CabinetMaker]

The Bible looks at Homosexuality as a sin of the flesh. Therefore, it
is a choice. Lying is a choice, murder is a choice, stealing is a choice,
coveting is a choice, etc.

Orientation is not the sin. Choosing to engage in immoral sex is the sin.

 

[genuineoriginal]

They can be suppressed for a while, but they cannot be changed.

That is your opinion, but it is not substantiated by any facts.

_____
Some Gays Can Go Straight, Study Says

Dr. Robert Spitzer, a psychiatry professor at Columbia University, said he began his study as a skeptic — believing, as major mental health organizations do, that sexual orientation cannot be changed, and attempts to do so can even cause harm.

But Spitzer's study, which has not yet been published or reviewed, seems to indicate otherwise. Spitzer says he spoke to 143 men and 57 women who say they changed their orientation from gay to straight, and concluded that 66 percent of the men and 44 percent of women reached what he called good heterosexual functioning — a sustained, loving heterosexual relationship within the past year and getting enough emotional satisfaction to rate at least a seven on a 10-point scale.

He said those who changed their orientation had satisfying heterosexual sex at least monthly and never or rarely thought of someone of the same sex during intercourse.
_____​

 

[CabinetMaker]

Are you now claiming that adultery is a sexual orientation?

Only an incredibly obtuse person would come to that conclusion.

 

[CabinetMaker]

That is your opinion, but it is not substantiated by any facts.

_____
Some Gays Can Go Straight, Study Says

Dr. Robert Spitzer, a psychiatry professor at Columbia University, said he began his study as a skeptic — believing, as major mental health organizations do, that sexual orientation cannot be changed, and attempts to do so can even cause harm.

But Spitzer's study, which has not yet been published or reviewed, seems to indicate otherwise. Spitzer says he spoke to 143 men and 57 women who say they changed their orientation from gay to straight, and concluded that 66 percent of the men and 44 percent of women reached what he called good heterosexual functioning — a sustained, loving heterosexual relationship within the past year and getting enough emotional satisfaction to rate at least a seven on a 10-point scale.

He said those who changed their orientation had satisfying heterosexual sex at least monthly and never or rarely thought of someone of the same sex during intercourse.
_____​

Yes, SOME do. Most do not.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I married someone that only viewed me as a meal ticket to have the family she wanted and raise the kids the way she wanted.

After she got pregnant with our first child... i was put in my place and only my pay check mattered. I was not allowed to teach and/or discipline the kids, not allowed to manage our money under the threat of her leaving and her never allowing me to see the child again.

Some women/people are just plain evil... I was the victim of a masterful con job.

To this day, my divorce is the only divorce the christian law firm I used has ever taken part in.

I am sorry you went through such an ordeal.

I was not trying to bring up these memories, but was trying to get you to consider how much the physical parts of your marriage partner defined your marriage (whether you married her simply because of her looks).

The entire argument for same-sex relations boils down to the fact that each partner has a particular set of body parts.

 

[glassjester]

What I find interesting is that I have asked several people when they chose to be heterosexual. Thus far, I am the only one who has actually answered that question directly. Why wont you?

Sexual orientation is not a choice (that's the title of the thread).

I didn't choose to be heterosexual. No one did. There's no such thing.

But my choices over time shaped by taste in partners.

Based on reason and moral beliefs, people ought to gradually whittle down their partner preference to one person or zero people.


This I did. That one person is my wife.


If they base the partner-selection process on desires rather than reason, they will never make a righteous choice - they are becoming slaves to sin - no matter the gender of the partner.

 

[HisServant]

I am sorry you went through such an ordeal.

I was not trying to bring up these memories, but was trying to get you to consider how much the physical parts of your marriage partner defined your marriage (whether you married her simply because of her looks).

The entire argument for same-sex relations boils down to the fact that each partner has a particular set of body parts.

For me the body parts are really irrelevant since sex isn't something you engage in all the time. It's more about the kind of life I want to live with a partner... as a man, I cannot see another man fitting into the kind of life I want to life... only a female can complete that jigsaw puzzle.

I've never understood all the preoccupation with sex in this country... it has its place.. but it is also the cause of so much misery that we should approach it cautiously.

Think about it this way... if we controlled our base emotions for a single generation we could wipe out most STD's.

And besides God's command about adultery, I would be horrified and contemplate suicide if I brought a STD back home and gave it to my partner... only the lowest of low lifes... an animal.. would do such a thing.

 

[genuineoriginal]

There is no false dichotomy. We are born as male or female. We are naturally attracted to one or the other (sometimes both).

No, we are naturally sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex.
It is something called the biological imperative.
Maybe you have heard of it?

When did you choose to be only attracted to women?

My sexual attraction to women has developed over a long period of time, from childhood curiosity to find out how girls are different from boys to a great appreciation of the many different physical qualities of women of all ages and races as I grew older.
What I find physically attractive in women has changed greatly over my lifetime, but it is the non-physical traits that now hold the highest value.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Only an incredibly obtuse person would come to that conclusion.

Or rather, only an incredibly obtuse person would fail to see the relationship between choosing to covet your neighbor's wife and choosing to covet your neighbor.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Yes, SOME do. Most do not.

Yes, most people that have chosen to act on unnatural desires to have sex with people their own gender do not choose to stop committing acts against nature.

Just like most thieves do not choose to stop stealing and most murderers do not choose to stop murdering, unless there is a real threat of punishment that is greater than their desires.

 

[genuineoriginal]

For me the body parts are really irrelevant since sex isn't something you engage in all the time.

If only we could get the self-professed homosexuals to understand that.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Sexual orientation is not a choice (that's the title of the thread).

I didn't choose to be heterosexual.

And yet you are. Why?

No one did.

That is correct, they always knew what their orientation was.

There's no such thing.

Yes there is. Homo means same, hetero means different. A homosexual person desires sex with a person of the same sex. A heterosexual person desires sex with a person of the opposite sex. That is all the two terms really mean.

But my choices over time shaped by taste in partners.

But not the sex of your partner. You always knew that you wanted to have sex with a woman. Didn't you?

Based on reason and moral beliefs, people ought to gradually whittle down their partner preference to one person or zero people.


This I did. That one person is my wife.


If they base the partner-selection process on desires rather than reason, they will never make a righteous choice - they are becoming slaves to sin - no matter the gender of the partner.

Welcome t the human race.

 

[CabinetMaker]

No, we are naturally sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex.
It is something called the biological imperative.
Maybe you have heard of it?

Not true for all humans. Some humans are attracted to the same sex in spite of biological imperatives. We don't fully understand why, but it is true none the less.

My sexual attraction to women has developed over a long period of time, from childhood curiosity to find out how girls are different from boys to a great appreciation of the many different physical qualities of women of all ages and races as I grew older.
What I find physically attractive in women has changed greatly over my lifetime, but it is the non-physical traits that now hold the highest value.

I would wager that you always knew you wanted to have sex with woman. What you find attractive in a woman has changed, but your desire for them never has. The same seems to be true with many homosexuals; their tastes may change, but their desire does not.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Or rather, only an incredibly obtuse person would fail to see the relationship between choosing to covet your neighbor's wife and choosing to covet your neighbor.

I have never seen such shallow arguments. Yes, there is a moral difference. But that does nothing to address that a persons sexual attraction to another is independent of morals. Morals will determine how one reacts to the attraction, but morals do not determine the attraction. Something else does.