Was it a coincidence that from the time the Romans surrounded the city to when they destroyed the temple, was exactly 3.5 years?
ECT Scriptures against the false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine
- Thread starter ZacharyB
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Was it a coincidence that from the time the Romans surrounded the city to when they destroyed the temple, was exactly 3.5 years?
That's a denial of what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross.
genuineoriginal
New member
You mean the time when the Romans surrounded the city, then left for 3 years, then came back later and destroyed the temple in half a year?
For a Preterist, you seem very ignorant of the events surrounding the end of that age.
You would have a better time trying to sell the entire 7 year period from the time the Jewish Rebels took Masada in 66 CE to the fall of Masada to the Romans in 74 CE.
However, according to the way the tribulation of the children of Israel is defined in over 300 references in the Old Testament, the War of the Jews described by Flavius Josephus is not the great tribulation.
Solomon knew full well what punishment God would pour out on the children of Israel, and described it in his prayer.
1 Kings 8:46-50 46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near; 47 Yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness; 48 And so return unto thee with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, which led them away captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name: 49 Then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling place, and maintain their cause, 50 And forgive thy people that have sinned against thee, and all their transgressions wherein they have transgressed against thee, and give them compassion before them who carried them captive, that they may have compassion on them: |
The captivity of the children of Israel in the land of their enemies is what the great tribulation consists of.
In 66AD, the Great Jewish Revolt occurred.
A few months later in 66AD Cestius Gallus was sent by Rome, and surrounded Jerusalem. But then with no explanation, he retreated.
Josephus wrote the following about the event:
"It then happened that Cestius was not conscious either how the besieged despaired of success, nor how courageous the people were for him; and so he recalled his soldiers from the place, and by despairing of any expectation of taking it, without having received any disgrace, he retired from the city, without any reason in the world." (Wars, II, XIX, 6,7)
It was at this time that the Christians in Jerusalem fled to Pella.
Eusebius wrote about it:
"The members of the Jerusalem church by means of an oracle, given by revelation to acceptable persons there, were ordered to leave the city before the war began and settle in a town in Peraea called Pella." - Book III, 5:4
This lines up perfectly with what Jesus said about 35 years earlier:
(Luke 21:20-21) “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.
If Gallus would have stayed there, there would have been no way for the Christians to leave the city and flee to the mountains.
After the Christians fled to the mountains of Pella, Rome sent Vespasian and his son Titus.
The siege of the city began in 66AD and came to a complete end in 70AD when the temple was destroyed. This event lasted 3.5 years.
The Jews who escaped to Masada, and who later killed themselves in 73AD have nothing to do with the prophecies given by Jesus.
The destruction of the temple with not one stone left standing upon another, was the culmination of the ages. The Old Covenant completely vanished then, and the New Covenant was fully in place (Heb 7:12)
(Luke 21:20-22) “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.
As we see above the great tribulation was to only take place in Jerusalem, and nowhere else.
It's not worldwide as you claim, otherwise Jesus wouldn't have told only those in Jerusalem to flee to the mountains.
This all happened when the Jews repented in Babylon, and God let them return to Judah.
The Law and Prophets have been fulfilled in Christ Jesus.
There's a reason no writer in the NT says anything about what you are claiming.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
There is a reason, but not what you think.
genuineoriginal
New member
Yes, so far you are accurate.
Because Gallus left Jerusalem, allowing the Christians to flee, there was no siege of the city that lasted for 3.5 years.
The siege lasted half a year, it began and ended in 70 CE.
I was giving you a way to correct your mistaking .5 years for 3.5 years by showing you the 3.5 years between the beginning of the siege of Jerusalem in 70 CE and the end of the war in 74 CE when Masada fell.
You chose to claim that .5 years is really 3.5 years.
You just jumped the shark.
The New Covenant was fully in place in 33 CE with the resurrection of Jesus from the dead.
The Old Covenant never vanished, because the Word of God does not return void.
There was no culmination of the ages in 70 CE, otherwise we would not be here.
genuineoriginal
New member
Yes, the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.
That is exactly why I directed to all that has been written about the punishment of the children of Israel in the Old Testament.
Over and over again, hundreds of times, the Old Testament talks about the punishment of the children of Israel as their being captive among the nations, scattered among the nations, and exiled from the promised land.
You haven't shown anything that has been written about the punishment of the children of Israel from the Old Testament that shows the punishment consists of a siege of Jerusalem that lasts half a year and ends with the destruction of the Temple.
The writer of Hebrews proves you wrong:
(Heb 8:13) By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
The above verse was written after the NC was implemented, but before the OC disappeared.
The writer of Hebrews makes it clear that the NC made the OC obsolete, and that soon, the outdated OC would disappear for good.
That's exactly what happened in 70AD. The OC disappeared for good.
genuineoriginal
New member
The fact that there is still day and night proves your Replacement Theology is wrong.
Jeremiah 33:23-26 23 Moreover the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah, saying, 24 Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the Lord hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them. 25 Thus saith the Lord; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; 26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them. |
You can't be serious?
The passage you gave in Jeremiah was to the Jews while they were in captivity in Babylon.
It was a promise from God that one day they would be restored. That happened when the Jews returned to Judah with Ezra and rebuilt the temple.
No matter how hard you don't want it to be, the New Covenant has replaced the Old Covenant.
The NC was implemented when Christ Jesus shed His blood on the cross. I don't know how you can deny that.
It only happened one time.
They were removed by Assyria and Babylon, and then only the Jews returned from Babylon.
It never happened any other time.
From the time of the Great Revolt in 66AD to the destruction of the temple in 70AD, the time was 3.5 years.
From the time Jerusalem was first surrounded to the destruction of the temple was 3.5 years.
genuineoriginal
New member
Of course I am serious.
Day and Night are still here, as is God's covenant with His people, the children of Israel.
genuineoriginal
New member
An exile happened each time the temple was destroyed.
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Jewish diaspora
. . .
The first exile was the Assyrian exile, the expulsion from the Kingdom of Israel (Samaria) by Tiglath-Pileser III of Assyria in 733 BCE, and its completion by Sargon II with the destruction of the kingdom in 722 BCE, after the end of the three-year siege that Shalmaneser V started in Samaria.
It continued with the exile of a portion of the population of the Kingdom of Judah in 597 BCE with the Babylonian exile. The Babylonian exile ended after 70 years with Cyrus' declaration that the exiled Jews would be allowed to return to Jerusalem and build the Second Temple in Yehud Medinata, an autonomous province of the Achaemenid Empire.
. . .
The Jews revolted against the Roman Empire in 66 CE during the period known as the First Jewish–Roman War which culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE. During the siege, the Romans destroyed the Second Temple and most of Jerusalem.[1] This event marked the beginning of the Roman exile, also called Edom exile. Jewish leaders and elite were exiled, killed or sold into slavery.
. . .
_____
Jewish diaspora
. . .
The first exile was the Assyrian exile, the expulsion from the Kingdom of Israel (Samaria) by Tiglath-Pileser III of Assyria in 733 BCE, and its completion by Sargon II with the destruction of the kingdom in 722 BCE, after the end of the three-year siege that Shalmaneser V started in Samaria.
It continued with the exile of a portion of the population of the Kingdom of Judah in 597 BCE with the Babylonian exile. The Babylonian exile ended after 70 years with Cyrus' declaration that the exiled Jews would be allowed to return to Jerusalem and build the Second Temple in Yehud Medinata, an autonomous province of the Achaemenid Empire.
. . .
The Jews revolted against the Roman Empire in 66 CE during the period known as the First Jewish–Roman War which culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE. During the siege, the Romans destroyed the Second Temple and most of Jerusalem.[1] This event marked the beginning of the Roman exile, also called Edom exile. Jewish leaders and elite were exiled, killed or sold into slavery.
. . .
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The temple was only destroyed twice.
The only exile happened the first time the temple was destroyed.
The second time the temple was destroyed, marked the end of the ages, the end of the old covenant.
We are now fully in the new covenant, and there is no difference between a Jew and a Gentile in the new covenant. There are no people in exile.
Those who have faith in Christ Jesus are the children of Abraham.
There is a new priesthood, and a new law.
Christ Jesus fulfilled the Law and Prophets. There are no prophecies from the Law and Prophets (old testament) that haven't been fulfilled in Christ Jesus.
Quit trying to put new wine in old wineskins !!!
:bang:
Your Futurism/Zionism contradicts the New Covenant.
Do you believe the New Covenant is in place right now?
genuineoriginal
New member
I am a Historicist, not a Futurist.
The historical realities of the Diaspora and the formation of Israel as a nation prove that the prophecies to establish the kingdom in the land of Israel will be fulfilled.
Of course I do.
You do know that there are more than two covenants, don't you?
Not if you claim there's going to be a future kingdom here on planet earth. Only Futurists make such a claim.
Historicists claim Jesus returns once, and then that's it. There's a judgement, the unbelievers go to hell, and the believers to to heaven.
Claiming there's going to be a future Israelite kingdom makes you a Futurist/Zionist.
You're really no different than a Dispensationalist other than you don't have Christians getting raptured away before your future Israelite kingdom begins.
Nothing in the NT backs your wild claim.
If so, then make up your mind which one to live under.
The New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant.
Heb 8:13 tells us so.
(Heb 8:13) By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
Why do you still take passages from a covenant that was obsolete at the time Hebrews was written?
Not to mention that it has now disappeared forever.