God so loved the world that he saved the world by providing salvation for all of the whosoevers.
"Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
Romans Chapter 9 and Calvinism
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
God so loved the world that he saved the world by providing salvation for all of the whosoevers.
"Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
beloved57
Well-known member
There's no scripture saying " God so Loved the world that He saved the world by providing salvation for all the whosoevers"! That's a invalid comment!
Either you can't read or you are just plain stupid.
"Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
beloved57
Well-known member
Those calling on Christ's name, Christ believed for them already when He obeyed the Law for them! He is the Author of their Faith, not themselves!
Perhaps the best argument, (well if not the best maybe the simplest), against Calvinism is to simply point out how they are forced to make simple words mean something other than what they actually mean.
Someone should publish a Calvinist lexicon of the English language.
Nation = A single person.
Whosoever = a specific set of persons.
Repent = Relent
Now I (God) know = God knew all along.
I (God) will remember your sins no longer. = I predestined you to sin and cannot forget anything.
Of course publishing such a text would require an effort equal to, if not greater than reprinting the entire text of Scripture.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Someone should publish a Calvinist lexicon of the English language.
Nation = A single person.
Whosoever = a specific set of persons.
Repent = Relent
Now I (God) know = God knew all along.
I (God) will remember your sins no longer. = I predestined you to sin and cannot forget anything.
Of course publishing such a text would require an effort equal to, if not greater than reprinting the entire text of Scripture.
Resting in Him,
Clete
beloved57
Well-known member
Jacob and Easu are individuals ! They are Isaacs son's, they were twins!
Clete, that Open Theism link isn't working:
http://opentheism.info/pdf/sanders/openness_christian_theism.pdf
Checked here, to no avail also:
https://www.google.com/#q=openness_christian_theism.pdf
And here:
https://www.google.com/#q=openness+christian+theism.pdf
So what? How is that even relevant?
Are you suggesting God got it wrong when He said, "Two nations are in your womb"?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Exactly...or that Esau is Edom.
Genesis 36:1 Now these are the generations of Esau, who is Edom.
Genesis 36:8 Thus dwelt Esau in mount Seir: Esau is Edom.
Genesis 36:8 Thus dwelt Esau in mount Seir: Esau is Edom.
beloved57
Well-known member
No He is not wrong ! Nevertheless do you deny that they were Two individuals in her womb ?
beloved57
Well-known member
You don't believe that Easu was a individual or Jacob?
Your right. They change the meaning of the words in the Bible to try and prove their false doctrine.
Brother Ducky
New member
Such as: God hardened Pharoah's heart = Pharaoh hardened his own heart?
Or All are in Christ and not all are saved?
In actual fact the text states both.
rougueone
New member
You have the same thread already in the works.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4403065&postcount=61
And you started the thread a few days before this one Robert.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4402550&postcount=46
First Paul did state he was predestined and I posted this already. Yet you skipped through this instead of addressing it:
Galatians 1:1 “Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead.”
Colossians 1:1 “Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God.”
First Corinthians 1:1 “Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus.”
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called ( CHOSEN) ,according to His purpose.
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand ( PREDESTINED ) ,so that we would walk in them.
also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
Romans 8:29--30... For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren. And these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4403065&postcount=61
Further HEIR called you out on this and you again hopped around her truths:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4402534&postcount=45
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4402503&postcount=41
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4402141&postcount=17
This post you made borders on Universalism:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4402521&postcount=43
Robert, it appears your arguing. Not debating just so you can argue. otherwise if as you state according to your own admittance, you had the answers, yet ignore them.
Here is more you post. Yet ignoring the Scriptures:
The word "predestined" which is usually used by Calvinist and seldom used by Christians, should always be followed with an explanation, or you will always be labeled a Calvinist.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4402550&postcount=46
And the Scriptures that absolutely bury your own statement ( again ) :
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand ( PREDESTINED ) ,so that we would walk in them.
also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
Romans 8:29--30... For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren. And these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4403065&postcount=61
I don't know what your objective is. But I suggest you re-group Robert.
Dialogos
Well-known member
:doh:
Robert,
You commented on Romans 9:
You make God's loving Jacob based on Jacob's love for God.Robert said:
That directly contradicts the text you are commenting on because the scripture says that God set His love on Jacob "before either of them were born!"
:readthis:
(Romans 9:10-13 ESV) And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad-- in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls-- she was told, "The older will serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
Do you want another direct contradiction of your commentary and scripture?
This so-called commentary on Romans 8:17-21 is a theological train wreck.Robert Pate said:
First you say that God didn't harden Pharaoh's heart which is a direct contradiction of the scriptures, see Exodus 4:21.
"And the LORD said to Moses, "When you go back to Egypt, see that you do before Pharaoh all the miracles that I have put in your power. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go. (Exo 4:21 ESV)"
Second, you have Paul answering "everyone" to the question posed by Paul...
" You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" (Rom 9:19 ESV)"
...which is so eisegetical its embrassing.
Paul's answer isn't "everyone."
It is, "But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" (Rom 9:20 ESV)"
Paul's answer is, "who are you to question God's just will?"
And, unfortunately, the common answer that is given to Paul's question in reply is "Oh, I'm special, I get to stand over God and determine when God is acting justly and when He isn't because I'm so smart and holy. I get to judge what God has done based upon what I think God should have done and that's the way I read all passages that contradict my view."
:nono:
So when you say things like...
You put your pride and ignorance on parade.Robert Pate said:
Because scripture flat out says that God hardened Pharaoh's heart and because it illustrates that your attempt to accuse Him of injustice is just another example of someone flapping thier gums where Paul was telling people to shut their yappers.
" But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? (Rom 9:20 ESV)"
Dialogos
Well-known member
That's fun, lets do the same with open theism.
:chuckle:
Open Theist dictionary.Clete said:
"twins" = two fully formed people groups. For example, when Rebekah gave birth to Jacob and Esau the "twins" cannot possibly refer to two individuals (despite the fact that twins usually means two individuals), it must, of necessity, mean two fully formed and developed nations."
"Elect" = Nobody.
"Sovereignty" = Something that belongs to mankind but not to God.
"Salvation" = Something that God participates in but is ultimately accomplished by human will and effort.
"Predestination" = Nothing, nothing at all.
"Freedom" = a) Something a human has before they come to Christ, after they come, they lose it due to the doctrine of "eternal security."
b) Something God has less of that man does when it comes to salvation.
"Prophecy" = A really good guess.
Of course publishing such a text would require an effort equal to, if not greater than reprinting the entire text of Scripture.
:chuckle:
You don't believe that God is holy, just, merciful and righteous.
You believe in the God of Calvinism that is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.
God's sovereignty does not overide his holy attributes.
The real problem for you is that it is not possible for you to have saving faith in the God of Calvinism. The God that you describe did not send his only begotten Son into the world to die for the sins of the world, John 3:16.
The God of Calvinism is devisive and cannot be trusted.