staind.raindrop
New member
I see a lot of verses confirming that God has predetermined some for salvation, but I see none that state He's predetermined some for hell.
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Preaching the Gospel !
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I see a lot of verses confirming that God has predetermined some for salvation, but I see none that state He's predetermined some for hell.
God's Truth
New member
The Bible tells us who Jesus elects, chooses to save.
Calvinism is false, and goes against the Word of God.
Jesus says he saves those he is PLEASED to save, see John 5:21 NIV.
Jesus saves those who are on the side of truth, see John 18:37.
Jesus saves those who do right and come to the light, see John 3:21.
Jesus saves those he accepts, see Acts 15:8 NIV.
Jesus accepts those who fear God and does what is right, see Acts 10:35.
Jesus saves those who obey, see Acts 5:32.
Jesus saves those who practice what he preaches, see Luke 8:21.
Jesus saves those who get his teachings and obeys them, see John 14:23.
beloved57
Well-known member
nanja
That's so True ! The Gospel in the purpose of God unto them serves as a message of death unto death. 2 Cor 2:15-16
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
and as you just quoted Isa 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
That's so True ! The Gospel in the purpose of God unto them serves as a message of death unto death. 2 Cor 2:15-16
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
and as you just quoted Isa 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
staind.raindrop
New member
I think I understand the point you're trying to make.. It's true, you can be born and raised on either side, but if predestined damnation existed, conversion would be impossible and it would make Christ a loony toon for trying to save sinners and telling us to do the same.
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God's Truth
New member
You have been ensnared by the devil to believe and teach what goes against the Word of God.
Nanja
Well-known member
By nature all of mankind deserve nothing but death (Rom. 3:23), but according to His Grace (Eph. 1:6),
in His Eternal Purpose, God decided to save some before the foundation of the world: the Vessels of Mercy (Rom. 9:23).
All the rest, the non-elect; they were predestined also,
they have been left out of the election of grace: "without" (Mark 4:11).
God willfully created them as vessels of wrath:
Rom. 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known,
endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction
2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations,
and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished
And they are the wicked made for the day of evil:
Prov. 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Mat. 25 (v.31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him,
then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: (v.32) And before him shall be gathered all nations:
and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
(v.33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. (v.34) Then shall
the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom
prepared for you from the foundation of the world (v.41) Then shall he say also unto them on
the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
(v.46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
~~~~~
staind.raindrop
New member
Ok, now this is compelling enough to consider, since it's scriptural. Let me speculate & articulate.
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beloved57
Well-known member
You the one speaking against the Gospel of God !
staind.raindrop
New member
I've been speculating on this a lot recently, not just after this comment. It seems that 'wrath' and 'destruction' and 'punishment' and 'torment' are rewards, if you're truly evil. It's a win, win if you've sold out to a side. If you're lukewarm, He will spew you out of his mouth. I don't think it will be to a place that's eternal, though... I think it's to the spiritual battlefield where the evil and good fight over you. I call it the separator. It isn't fun, so God says pick if you want to be spared the torture. Someone refute me, cause this is disturbing without scripture backing it.
staind.raindrop
New member
Idk why but I get so flustered when I try to keep up with reading the book of revelation. I'm under the impression that he only casts some into the lake of fire and others out of the kingdom. I assume the predestined are the ones going to their heavens and the ones without any predetermination that haven't chosen are the ones we fight over.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
look a little deeper.....
look a little deeper.....
The law of karma (actions and their consequences) naturally compensates each soul their so called 'rewards' and 'punishments'. However this is not necessarily some anthropomorphic Deity meting out such, but the action of the law itself.
Whatever 'side' is taken, the law of compensation affords for one's 'suffering' or 'blessing'. One cannot avoid the law of karma, as long as there are actions and their accompanying results.
This metaphor can probably be taken with a grain of salt.
The insanity of ECT (eternal conscious torment) is challenged here.
The law of justice has its own inward 'correcting principle', whereby sinners are moved by their own suffering to amend or reform their ways to rightness, whereby they enjoy the reward of goodness for its own sake. If man is created by 'God' and has the inward essence, spirit, image and likeness of 'God' in him,.....it is only natural to re-turn to his true nature which is divine.
A principle or proposition is to be evaluated upon its own merit or de-merit. Whether something is 'biblical' or 'scriptural' is often rather 'arbitrary', and its not necessary to assume that 'scripture' has all the knowledge or revelation in the world, since its limited to its own culture-context and writer at some point in history. This is one of the main problems that comes with such a 'belief', which must be transcended to include the whole of knowledge and revelation.
It must be that if 'God' is Love and Wisdom,....then all souls are given equal opportunity to fulfill their purpose for be-ing....with every resource of grace availing, since Love's will and nature could afford nothing less. If Love is Infinite, then it outshines any of our finite concepts or 'mis-conceptions' of love, let alone our beliefs on who or who will not be 'saved' (according to our feeble projections).
pj
look a little deeper.....
The law of karma (actions and their consequences) naturally compensates each soul their so called 'rewards' and 'punishments'. However this is not necessarily some anthropomorphic Deity meting out such, but the action of the law itself.
Whatever 'side' is taken, the law of compensation affords for one's 'suffering' or 'blessing'. One cannot avoid the law of karma, as long as there are actions and their accompanying results.
This metaphor can probably be taken with a grain of salt.
The insanity of ECT (eternal conscious torment) is challenged here.
The law of justice has its own inward 'correcting principle', whereby sinners are moved by their own suffering to amend or reform their ways to rightness, whereby they enjoy the reward of goodness for its own sake. If man is created by 'God' and has the inward essence, spirit, image and likeness of 'God' in him,.....it is only natural to re-turn to his true nature which is divine.
A principle or proposition is to be evaluated upon its own merit or de-merit. Whether something is 'biblical' or 'scriptural' is often rather 'arbitrary', and its not necessary to assume that 'scripture' has all the knowledge or revelation in the world, since its limited to its own culture-context and writer at some point in history. This is one of the main problems that comes with such a 'belief', which must be transcended to include the whole of knowledge and revelation.
It must be that if 'God' is Love and Wisdom,....then all souls are given equal opportunity to fulfill their purpose for be-ing....with every resource of grace availing, since Love's will and nature could afford nothing less. If Love is Infinite, then it outshines any of our finite concepts or 'mis-conceptions' of love, let alone our beliefs on who or who will not be 'saved' (according to our feeble projections).
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
figurative speech............
figurative speech............
Looking past all the religious imagery in the Apacolypse,....Infinite LOVE and its will, prevails, even if 'free will' can frustrate or delay the fulfillment of that love to any degree,.....the Infinite is still greater than all that is finite or conditional.
The figurative or literal speech in the book of Revelation may confuse more than enlighten...- it was rejected by some in the early days of the formation of the canon because of its cryptic language and minimal value as a book for moral teachings or ethics.
There is also another school that holds its more of an 'astral vision' from the lower realms, so it contains some symbology of a lower nature than the highest spiritual realm. Non-the-less, it has its beautiful metaphors and allegories, but one must properly interpret the figurative language.
pj
figurative speech............
Looking past all the religious imagery in the Apacolypse,....Infinite LOVE and its will, prevails, even if 'free will' can frustrate or delay the fulfillment of that love to any degree,.....the Infinite is still greater than all that is finite or conditional.
The figurative or literal speech in the book of Revelation may confuse more than enlighten...- it was rejected by some in the early days of the formation of the canon because of its cryptic language and minimal value as a book for moral teachings or ethics.
There is also another school that holds its more of an 'astral vision' from the lower realms, so it contains some symbology of a lower nature than the highest spiritual realm. Non-the-less, it has its beautiful metaphors and allegories, but one must properly interpret the figurative language.
pj
Levolor
New member
I consider the book of Revelation to be more a book telling of the spiritual transformation of an individual.
Not saying that what some interpret to happen, won't.
beloved57
Well-known member
The Gospel is the Wisdom of God in a Mystery !
The Gospel is the Wisdom of God in a Mystery !
1 Cor 2:7
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
The Gospel pertains to Mysteries and even the hidden wisdom of God, meaning these Truths cannot be discovered by the Natural mind of man, they must be revealed or made known by the Spirit.
Some of these Mysteries doeth include the matter of the believers prior Eternal Union with Christ, and such things forming the foundation of the Various Imputations, The Unions of the Divine and Mediator Natures in the One Person of Jesus Christ, The Godhead Union of the Father, Son/ Word and Holy Ghost, Yet One God!
This is what Paul terms the Gospel He Preached here in 1 Cor 2:7
Yes the same Wisdom of God as here 1 Cor 1:24
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
The Gospel of God is the compilation of various Mysteries, which are also called this Matt 13:11
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
John Gill writes:
The Gospel is the Mystery of the Faith denoted here 1 Tim 3:9
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
The Gospel and its various sublime Truths are not things that man can just choose to accept or reject with his so called freewill !
The Gospel is the Wisdom of God in a Mystery !
1 Cor 2:7
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
The Gospel pertains to Mysteries and even the hidden wisdom of God, meaning these Truths cannot be discovered by the Natural mind of man, they must be revealed or made known by the Spirit.
Some of these Mysteries doeth include the matter of the believers prior Eternal Union with Christ, and such things forming the foundation of the Various Imputations, The Unions of the Divine and Mediator Natures in the One Person of Jesus Christ, The Godhead Union of the Father, Son/ Word and Holy Ghost, Yet One God!
This is what Paul terms the Gospel He Preached here in 1 Cor 2:7
Yes the same Wisdom of God as here 1 Cor 1:24
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
The Gospel of God is the compilation of various Mysteries, which are also called this Matt 13:11
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
John Gill writes:
The Gospel is the Mystery of the Faith denoted here 1 Tim 3:9
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
The Gospel and its various sublime Truths are not things that man can just choose to accept or reject with his so called freewill !
beloved57
Well-known member
The Gospel is the Wisdom of God in a Mystery ! 2
The Gospel is the Wisdom of God in a Mystery ! 2
Now who does Paul say are the recipients of this Gospel which is the Wisdom of God in a Mystery ?
First of all its to them which are being called 1 Cor 1:24
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
So quite clearly those here in this context who are termed the called, are distinct from those who are not called, and to whom Christ is not the power of God and the Wisdom of God.
The called here are the same as those in Rom 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
And these are not all mankind without exception !!
And Paul calls them something else here 1 Cor 2:6
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought :
That word speak means to Preach in this context, its used as preach many times as like here Acts 8:25;Mark 2:2; Acts 11:20
So they preached Christ the Wisdom of God among them that are Perfect !
Now what does that mean ? What does being perfect mean ? It means for one, those who are viewed by God as Perfect in Christ !
The word means in the original:
wanting nothing necessary to completeness
perfect
This is applied to all whom God see's in Christ Col 2:10
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Secondly it means those who have been brought forth by the New Birth, which is a Perfect Gift from above James 1:17-18
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
That word above is the greek word Anothen and means:
from above, from a higher place of things which come from heaven or God
from the first, from the beginning, from the very first
anew, over again
Its no surprise its used here with Jesus Jn 3:3 as born again or born from above, Jn 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
That word born Gennao:
It means brought forth in Lk 1:57
Now Elisabeth's full time came that she should be delivered; and she brought forth G1080 a son.
It means beget in several places Matt 1:2; 1 Jn 5:1
So this agrees with James 1:18
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
And this we believe to be a perfect Gift from above James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
And so, those that are perfect in 1 Cor 2:6 are those born from above, and its is exclusively to them that the Gospel as the Wisdom of God in a Mystery is spoken or Preached to as a word of Salvation. 1 Cor 2:6
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
By New Birth they are perfectly capacitated by a New Heart and Mind to receive the Gospel of the Kingdom and understand it and bear fruit Matt 13:23
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
The Natural man void of the Spirit is not capacitated to receive the Gospel in the Wisdom of God with Spiritual Understanding !
Those things are foolishness to them 1 Cor 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The things of the Spirit of God refers back to 1 Cor 2:6
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
But to the perfect, the born from above ones, the Gospel in the scriptures and the Spirit's Illumination is able to make one wise unto Salvation as Per 2 Tim 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
The Gospel is the Wisdom of God in a Mystery ! 2
Now who does Paul say are the recipients of this Gospel which is the Wisdom of God in a Mystery ?
First of all its to them which are being called 1 Cor 1:24
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
So quite clearly those here in this context who are termed the called, are distinct from those who are not called, and to whom Christ is not the power of God and the Wisdom of God.
The called here are the same as those in Rom 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
And these are not all mankind without exception !!
And Paul calls them something else here 1 Cor 2:6
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought :
That word speak means to Preach in this context, its used as preach many times as like here Acts 8:25;Mark 2:2; Acts 11:20
So they preached Christ the Wisdom of God among them that are Perfect !
Now what does that mean ? What does being perfect mean ? It means for one, those who are viewed by God as Perfect in Christ !
The word means in the original:
wanting nothing necessary to completeness
perfect
This is applied to all whom God see's in Christ Col 2:10
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Secondly it means those who have been brought forth by the New Birth, which is a Perfect Gift from above James 1:17-18
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
That word above is the greek word Anothen and means:
from above, from a higher place of things which come from heaven or God
from the first, from the beginning, from the very first
anew, over again
Its no surprise its used here with Jesus Jn 3:3 as born again or born from above, Jn 3:3
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
That word born Gennao:
It means brought forth in Lk 1:57
Now Elisabeth's full time came that she should be delivered; and she brought forth G1080 a son.
It means beget in several places Matt 1:2; 1 Jn 5:1
So this agrees with James 1:18
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
And this we believe to be a perfect Gift from above James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
And so, those that are perfect in 1 Cor 2:6 are those born from above, and its is exclusively to them that the Gospel as the Wisdom of God in a Mystery is spoken or Preached to as a word of Salvation. 1 Cor 2:6
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
By New Birth they are perfectly capacitated by a New Heart and Mind to receive the Gospel of the Kingdom and understand it and bear fruit Matt 13:23
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
The Natural man void of the Spirit is not capacitated to receive the Gospel in the Wisdom of God with Spiritual Understanding !
Those things are foolishness to them 1 Cor 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The things of the Spirit of God refers back to 1 Cor 2:6
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
But to the perfect, the born from above ones, the Gospel in the scriptures and the Spirit's Illumination is able to make one wise unto Salvation as Per 2 Tim 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
beloved57
Well-known member
The Gospel of the Kingdom 3
The Gospel of the Kingdom 3
Matt 24:14
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
This Gospel of the Kingdom, when its a word of Salvation, is for a specific Kingdom People that God has given to Christ; for remember the words as these from the Saviour King Jn 6:37
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
See also Jn 6:65;17:2, these are people given to Christ to make up His Kingdom that the Father appoints him Lk 22:29
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
Now the Father hath not appointed Him a Kingdom without subjects to serve Him, and so the Father hath determined the subjects of that Kingdom, remember Jesus shall soon say to His Sheep Matt 25:34
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
This is the Kingdom that they were called unto by the Gospel 1 Thess 2:12
That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
The Kingdom they are to inherit Matt 25:34
2 Thess 2:14
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
That's why its the Gospel of the Kingdom Matt 24:14, its because the Gospel calls its subjects to the obtaining of the Glory of it, and even more specifically, we see that this Kingdom was given to the Resurrected and Ascended Christ after accomplishing His Redemptive Work for them on the Cross, and ascended to the Right Hand of God Dan 7:13-14
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
This Kingdom is all for whom He died ! Its His Redeemed Kingdom Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
The Gospel of the Kingdom 3
Matt 24:14
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
This Gospel of the Kingdom, when its a word of Salvation, is for a specific Kingdom People that God has given to Christ; for remember the words as these from the Saviour King Jn 6:37
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
See also Jn 6:65;17:2, these are people given to Christ to make up His Kingdom that the Father appoints him Lk 22:29
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
Now the Father hath not appointed Him a Kingdom without subjects to serve Him, and so the Father hath determined the subjects of that Kingdom, remember Jesus shall soon say to His Sheep Matt 25:34
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
This is the Kingdom that they were called unto by the Gospel 1 Thess 2:12
That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
The Kingdom they are to inherit Matt 25:34
2 Thess 2:14
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
That's why its the Gospel of the Kingdom Matt 24:14, its because the Gospel calls its subjects to the obtaining of the Glory of it, and even more specifically, we see that this Kingdom was given to the Resurrected and Ascended Christ after accomplishing His Redemptive Work for them on the Cross, and ascended to the Right Hand of God Dan 7:13-14
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
This Kingdom is all for whom He died ! Its His Redeemed Kingdom Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
beloved57
Well-known member
The Gospel of the Kingdom 4
The Gospel of the Kingdom 4
Yes, Daniel 7:13-14 is the Lord Jesus Christ's redeemed Kingdom redeemed by His Blood to serve Him as per Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Now the word Kings here is the greek word Basileus and means:
leader of the people, prince, commander, lord of the land, king
Its most prominent use is Kings 82 times . Now its used to describe those redeemed by Christ's Blood so these are Spiritual Kings , reigning with Christ. Remember Rom 5:17
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)
They are basically the same word, here its the word Basileuo and means:
I.
to be king, to exercise kingly power, to reign
A.
of the governor of a province
B.
of the rule of the Messiah
C.
of the reign of Christians in the millennium
II.
metaph. to exercise the highest influence, to control
I also believe this is what God meant to Abraham here Gen 17:5-6
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Its Spiritual Kings that God means here, comprised of Abraham's Spiritual Seed from amongst the jews and gentiles Vs 5 !
In many translations kings in Rev 5:10 has been translated Kingdoms :
Rev 5:10
10 and madest them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and they reign upon earth. ASV
10 And You have made them a kingdom (royal race) and priests to our God, and they shall reign [as kings] over the earth!AMP
and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God,
and they shall reign on the earth.” ESV
10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.” NASB
Now notice the similar wording in Dan 77:14
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
" all people, nations, and languages" and Rev 5:9
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
So no doubt they are the same Kingdom, with the same King. We also believe its that same Royal Priesthood spoken of here 1 Pet 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called [By the Gospel of the Kingdom] you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
And so the Gospel of the Kingdom is for the ingathering of all the subjects of that Kingdom, for remember Dan 7:14 states that these subjects shall serve Him, which commences by Gospel Obedience. This Kingdom is a fixed set predetermined amount of people, foreknown by the Father and given tl the Son 1 Pet 1:2-4
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
The Gospel of the Kingdom 4
Yes, Daniel 7:13-14 is the Lord Jesus Christ's redeemed Kingdom redeemed by His Blood to serve Him as per Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Now the word Kings here is the greek word Basileus and means:
leader of the people, prince, commander, lord of the land, king
Its most prominent use is Kings 82 times . Now its used to describe those redeemed by Christ's Blood so these are Spiritual Kings , reigning with Christ. Remember Rom 5:17
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)
They are basically the same word, here its the word Basileuo and means:
I.
to be king, to exercise kingly power, to reign
A.
of the governor of a province
B.
of the rule of the Messiah
C.
of the reign of Christians in the millennium
II.
metaph. to exercise the highest influence, to control
I also believe this is what God meant to Abraham here Gen 17:5-6
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Its Spiritual Kings that God means here, comprised of Abraham's Spiritual Seed from amongst the jews and gentiles Vs 5 !
In many translations kings in Rev 5:10 has been translated Kingdoms :
Rev 5:10
10 and madest them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and they reign upon earth. ASV
10 And You have made them a kingdom (royal race) and priests to our God, and they shall reign [as kings] over the earth!AMP
and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God,
and they shall reign on the earth.” ESV
10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.” NASB
Now notice the similar wording in Dan 77:14
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
" all people, nations, and languages" and Rev 5:9
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
So no doubt they are the same Kingdom, with the same King. We also believe its that same Royal Priesthood spoken of here 1 Pet 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called [By the Gospel of the Kingdom] you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
And so the Gospel of the Kingdom is for the ingathering of all the subjects of that Kingdom, for remember Dan 7:14 states that these subjects shall serve Him, which commences by Gospel Obedience. This Kingdom is a fixed set predetermined amount of people, foreknown by the Father and given tl the Son 1 Pet 1:2-4
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
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