heir
TOL Subscriber
:chuckle:
Poll: Do you agree with this picture?
- Thread starter musterion
- Start date
He was staunchly an Acts 2 Dispensationalist, which is where almost all of his inconsistency stems from. Back is 2000, I was actually in the process of writing him a letter concerning this when I heard that he had passed away. I'm going to have to go find that letter and read it again.
Anyway, while Stanford made some mistakes, his "Principles of Spiritual Growth" is brilliant. The first time a read it, it glazed my eyes over. I read it again after reading Bob Enyart's "The Plot" and it had turned into the most amazing book I had ever read. There is so much of the gospel that is simply invisible to people who do not rightly divide the Word of Truth.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Well it's very likely true! It's not a huge number of people but they are all very well biblically educated.
musterion
Well-known member
Agreed on all points (though I have not read THE PLOT). The man who evidently took over for Stanford -- Dan Smedra, I think his name is? -- came across as somewhat more rigid. Haven't visited the old site in several years.
What I will agree with you on is that bringing up the issue is a wise thing to do. If you saw this picture on the wall of a church you were visiting, using it as a spring board to communicate the issues you've brought up here would be a good thing.
musterion
Well-known member
That's exactly why I brought it up here.
Bringing it up in a church where L.S. is preached will get you shunned and booted forthwith. Ask me how I know that.
Ok, I read this far: "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God." (Miles J. Stanford)
So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (Hebrews 4:9 NASB)
I agree that there remains a millennial Sabbath for God's people, but I wasn't sure that is what you were referring to.
Nanja
Well-known member
HIMSELF!
Job 23:13-14
13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.
God chose a People for Himself in Christ before the world began according to His Purpose and Grace 2 Tim. 1:9,
And He also made the wicked as He so Purposed:
Prov. 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Is. 46:9-10
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure
~~~~~
heir
TOL Subscriber
I hope things have changed there, but when I went there the gospel of Christ/the cross was not preached as the power of God even though that is what Paul preached (Romans 1:16 KJV, 1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV). Rather, Romans 10:9-10 was presented as the gospel. It's a gospel, but the gospel of God (Romans 1:1-14 KJV), not the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). Believing WHO Jesus Christ is and that God raised Him from the dead is not the same good news as the WHY of the cross that saves today. There's a whole mess of people out there who believe WHO Christ is, but are not trusting Him believing WHY He died on the cross for them as the means by which we are saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). And as to doctrine being 100 % accurate there, that cannot be as we are not graffed in to anything: neither Israel or the Body of Christ yet Bob teaches that we are graffed in.
Just the facts!
Yours is actually also my understanding on that - at least as to what those two passages are relating.
The confession part was as literal as the issue of believing was.
A good example of both Israel's failure in this, and that it was literal.
John 9:20 His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind: 9:21 But by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself. 9:22 These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue.
Nanja
Well-known member
Do you see how that does away with a man's freewill choice?
It is only God's Will that is Free and Sovereign and controls and determines all others' will!
Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
How can an inhabitant of the earth that has been reputed as nothing have been given a freewill to determine his own eternal destiny?
Impossible.
Their own will is nothing compared to God's Will!
~~~~~
Rubbish - the choosing in Christ is in Christ.
Meaning, the moment one believes and is baptized by the Spirit into Christ, 1 Cor. 12:13, he is made a part of what God has determined to do for Himself to His Glory in His Son through the Spirit resident in said Believer.
God determined that this is what He would do in those who would come to Believe in His Son - He determined that, before the foundation of the world, Eph. 1.
Put your notions away
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heir
TOL Subscriber
That's why I chuckled at the comment.
We speak the same thing as we are beseeched by Paul (1 Corinthians 1:10 KJV). PTL! Glory to God!
Point taken.
Seriously?
You got one sentence into the chapter and that's what you gleaned?
Give me a break.
The point is, in a nut shell, that it's what Jesus did that makes me righteous, not what I do. It is for me to believe and for Him to live His life through me, for it is not longer I who live. How much work does a dead man do? I am at rest, in Christ. I am as perfect as can be because He is perfect and I am in Him. God has imputed Christ's righteousness to my account. For me to work implies that I am able to earn it which is not only false, its blasphemous.
I Corinthians 1:30
But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”
2 Corinthians 5:21
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
Colossians 2:6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”
2 Corinthians 5:21
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
Colossians 2:6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Are you capable of giving a straight answer?
There are some people that are elect and some that are not. What's the difference? What made God pick one for salvation and another for damnation?
I'm asking you to tell me what you're own doctrine teaches. This is not some sort of test to see if you give an answer I agree with. I'm asking you to tell me what you own beliefs are.
If there is a test at all its merely to see if have the courage of your own convictions or if you are afraid of your own doctrine.
That's what I gleaned because that's what he said.
I have read every publication Bob Enyart has ever published (that I know of) and listened to most every sermon he has preached in the last decade or more. You clearly have some sort of axe to grind. Nothing you said here makes any sense! Of course Bob teaches why Jesus died on the cross! Are you seriously suggesting that 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is some how foreign to Bob's doctrine? If so, you're a lunatic.
And as for being grafted in, Bob doesn't teach we were grafted into Israel any more than Romans 11 does. In other words, Bob teaches Romans 11 means what it says. It DOES NOT teach that the Body of Christ is part of Israel and neither does Bob. If you think he does, you are flatly wrong. However, Paul states clearly that we gentiles were grafted into something!
Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said.
So, tell me again how, "we are not grafted in to anything"!
It isn't Bob that taught this, it was Paul - The APOSTLE Paul! Bob simply read the bible and repeated what he read to those standing around.
Resting in Him,
Clete
glorydaz
Well-known member
Same question with this sticker.
What will most people think that means?
My answer.......Do you love the Lord Jesus Christ?