ECT "PISTEUO", the secret of the universe....
- Thread starter Faither
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glorydaz
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She's bought into her own work of fiction...the one where she is the star of the show.
I'll have agree with GT on this one.
1 Corinthians opens with the Corinthians up to their necks in walking after the flesh.
This continues in chapter two and into three and so on...
Paul's lament being that because they are functioning from the carnal, he can not "speak as unto spiritual" - "perfect" or spiritually mature saints.
The issue is the natural man too many a Believer continues to look at things from and thus why they do not grow as Paul would have them grow; due to their focus on allowing themselves to not only be the issue, but to be easily set off against anyone they disagree with, etc.
As a result, Paul had not been able to move on with them beyond the Cross to Mystery truth; they were barely beyond Christ died for sin.
Just as bad; they were nowhere near being able to remind themselves that Christ died for those they were allowing themselves to take issue with.
Thus, even in 2 Cor., Paul is still addressing this same problem - worse now; it now includes being against Paul himself...
2 Corinthians 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.
If you have ever tried addressing a Believer on an issue only to find them now your enemy, you have run smack into a Believer fully waxed gross in functioning from the natural man.
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Then we must simply disagree on what carnal means. I'm not one who thinks there are carnal Christians, and I don't think that's what Paul is saying, either.
The carnal man is wretched....sold under sin. He is carnally minded (which is death)...not life and peace. The carnal mind is enmity against God. That there were some who were yet carnal, needing to be spoken to as unto babe does not mean they were yet in the body of Christ...just that they were in need of the simple milk of the gospel.
Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
God's Truth
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That scripture is about men who only want to please their flesh.
God's Truth
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That is a good explanation of the truth. Too bad glorydaz can't see it.
God's Truth
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What a sad case of denial.
God's Truth
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You are the one who says I preach death when I preach obedience!
Obedience is not worthless. Where did you get such an idea as that?
In which case, count yourself in their number, GT.
Don't go thinking I agree with you beyond what you stated the passage was about - your insistence both on doing something in order to get saved, as well as on doing something in order to stay saved is you ingorantly glorying in your flesh.
In this, I agree with GD against your false gospel.
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Problem is, that is Paul speaking about the Believer.
He is talking about the inability to serve God that arises in the Believer when he attempts to do so in his own strength; in his own mortal (subject to death) flesh.
The flesh is enmity against God. As a result, to attempt to serve God in one's own strength is to set off the very body of this death that is our mortal flesh - sin arises, and the Believer dies; finds himself unable to serve in his own strength.
Say that someone offends us. If we look at our response from the Law's "have to forgive" them, sin arises, and we die; we find ourselves either unable to forgive them, or doing so begrudgingly, or glorying in how wonderful we are that we forgave them.
"Have to" sets off the flesh.
On the other hand, if we walk in the Spirit; if we though the Spirit mortify the flesh, we actually relish the opportunity to forgive "even as God, for Christ's sake, hath forgiven you..."
We find that we can; are easily able to.
There is the life and peace that Paul is talking about.
To walk in the Spirit is simply walking in a understanding of how these things work per the Spirit's communication through His Word, as to how they work.
Colossians 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
musterion
Well-known member
Paul urged the Galatians to not walk according to their flesh (Galatians 5:16, 25) and told the Corinthian (1 Cor 6:18), Ephesian (Eph 5:3-4) and Colossian believers pretty much the same thing (Col 3:5). In all these cases he was addressing believers. Carnality (or call it whatever you want) is a very real possibility for us.
Positionally, carnal Christians do not and cannot exist. Conditionally, we can.
Positionally, carnal Christians do not and cannot exist. Conditionally, we can.
God's Truth
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Postiionally, conditionally...you are making up doctrines that are not there. If you know about God and Jesus in this life, yet do not obey but live a sinful life instead, how do you ever think that you are saved now or will be if Jesus comes in your life time?
God's Truth
New member
Problem is, that is Paul speaking about the Believer.
He is talking about the inability to serve God that arises in the Believer when he attempts to do so in his own strength; in his own mortal (subject to death) flesh.
The flesh is enmity against God. As a result, to attempt to serve God in one's own strength is to set off the very body of this death that is our mortal flesh - sin arises, and the Believer dies; finds himself unable to serve in his own strength.
Say that someone offends us. If we look at our response from the Law's "have to forgive" them, sin arises, and we die; we find ourselves either unable to forgive them, or doing so begrudgingly, or glorying in how wonderful we are that we forgave them.
"Have to" sets off the flesh.
On the other hand, if we walk in the Spirit; if we though the Spirit mortify the flesh, we actually relish the opportunity to forgive "even as God, for Christ's sake, hath forgiven you..."
We find that we can; are easily able to.
There is the life and peace that Paul is talking about.
To walk in the Spirit is simply walking in a understanding of how these things work per the Spirit's communication through His Word, as to how they work.
Colossians 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
What you say is right on, except for when you say people cannot obey before they are saved. Not everyone is faithless; not everyone only wants to please their flesh. You can take instruction from anyone, why not take instruction from Jesus when he tells you the way to get to the Father? Humble yourself, repent of your sins, call on him.
The Bible says it is TO THOSE who fear God and do what is right that the message of salvation has been given. Think about that for awhile when you insist that a person cannot obey anything God says to be saved.
Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.
Acts 10:35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.
The Holy Spirit is not even give to anyone that does not obey.
Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."
God's Truth
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I feared God before I was saved. I humbled myself and repented of my sins before I was saved.
I can prove easily that glorydaz and you are wrong.
If those Corinthians who were sinning had feared God and humbled themselves, as we are told to do, and if they repented of their sins, they would not of needed to be rebuked and warned as they were. They would be saved from the fire that was in store for them because of their immoral acts.
Just listen to what you are going against. You are going against me for saying to humble yourself so that you can enter! That is what JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF TAUGHT---but you call it a false gospel. You are calling the words of Jesus Christ a false gospel.
Since I repeat the words of JESUS, you say I speak a false gospel. How do you ever get that Jesus' words when he walked the earth became false?
The WORKS Paul is speaking about is CIRCUMCISION. Circumcision is the first purification/ceremonial works that one had to do.
Just read what Paul SAYS---Paul SAYS THE WORK is CIRCUMCISION.
Romans 4:9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness.
Did you read that? Just a few scriptures more you would have read the truth that it is about the works of the hand of circumcision.
Do you really think that Paul went around teaching to obey Jesus is a false gospel?
Paul was a Pharisee and enforced the purification WORKS, the works that were going on for over 1,600 years. The Jews used to clean themselves just to be able to be near God's Spirit. The people who did these works could boast in those works, because those works they did WITH THEIR OWN HANDS, literally with their own hands is why people felt entitled to call themselves a child of God. God changed that ability when Jesus came and gave the New Covenant. The New Covenant is when Jesus' blood makes one clean. It does not take a work of your hand to fear God, humble yourself, forgive others, and repent of your sins.
God's Truth
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The words of JESUS CHRIST:
And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus' words stand FOREVER.
Jesus' words did NOT become a false gospel.
UNLESS YOU CHANGE and become like a little child---YOU WILL NEVER ENTER.
And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus' words stand FOREVER.
Jesus' words did NOT become a false gospel.
UNLESS YOU CHANGE and become like a little child---YOU WILL NEVER ENTER.
Right Divider
Body part
Everything that you preach is OLD COVENANT. You do NOT even know what the gospel of the grace of God is.
In Acts 13 Paul was preaching in a SYNAGOGUE to Israel and God-fearing Gentiles. That is exactly what had gone on for over 2 thousand years. Gentiles were ALWAYS allowed to join WITH ISRAEL per God's instructions to ISRAEL.
Isa 56:1-8 (AKJV/PCE)
(56:1) Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation [is] near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. (56:2) Blessed [is] the man [that] doeth this, and the son of man [that] layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. (56:3) ¶ Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I [am] a dry tree. (56:4) For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose [the things] that please me, and take hold of my covenant; (56:5) Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. (56:6) Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; (56:7) Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. (56:8) The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather [others] to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.
God's Truth
New member
What I posted was the NEW COVENANT, and Jesus' words did NOT BECOME OLD and a false gospel. That is what you all keep saying to me when I repeat Jesus' words.
Jesus came and taught the guidelines to the NEW COVENANT. Tell me, is it old or new that we are not to take an eye for an eye, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot?
Tell me, is it old or new to stone someone to death for adultery?
Tell me, is it old or new that we have to go through Jesus?
Is it old or new that a man died for our sins?
In the book of John we are told that MOSES came with the old law---and that Jesus CAME with GRACE.
You want me to believe that Paul alone came with grace. NONSENSE!
God's Truth
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You cannot change the truth that the MESSAGE, the MESSAGE of, THE MESSAGE OF SALVATION, SALVATION---was SENT TO GOD FEARING PEOPLE WHO DO RIGHT.
You can never ever get around that!