"OSAS" people are not answering this question.

[God's Truth]

Matthew 5
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

That is right; and, thanks for the pos rep you accidently gave me instead of the neg rep you make your life mission to give me.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

That is right; and, thanks for the pos rep you accidently gave me instead of the neg rep you make your life mission to give me.

Why do you return negative reps, and not rather, turn the other cheek?

 

[Shasta]

It is the "unrighteous" who shall not inherit the kingdom of God, but we will as we have been washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Leave it to the religious, but lost snake to leave out the good news conclusion to the syllogism!

Heir, please explain to me how these believers can be deceived.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders

Heir you have not taken the whole passage into consideration. While it is true that many of them no longer lived in sin the current issue Paul was focusing on was that some of them had returned to their former habits

…8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong (cheat) and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
1 Corinthians 6:8

Who do you suppose he means when he says "you yourselves" but the believers he is writing to? If that is not enough proof that he is not talking to the unsaved he goes on to say call them "brothers" Taking verse 11 to apply to every one of them violates principles of sound hermeneutics and subverts the the meaning the passage.

Paul is saying that among them who were believers who were swindlers, frauds, cheats and crooks. One thing they were doing was taking each other to court over frivolous matters most likely for financial gain. This shows that Christians can fall into a lifestyle of sin (even after they were initially delivered). In this case, the sin they were addicted to was avarice.

In verse 9 Paul states a general principle:

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?

In verses 9-10 he says unrighteousness includes those who practice: idolatry, adultery, sexual immorality, drunkenness, homosexuality as well those who are swindlers

He says that those who PRACTICE such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Paul warns them not to be deceived - but about what? Is he warning that unbelievers will not inherit the kingdom of God? While true, that does not apply to them and, if OSAS is true the possibility of suffering their fate could hardly serve as a warning since it could never happen. It would be like a parent warning his child "If you do that again I am going to spank the neighbor's kid." Aside from that, people are not unsaved because they do or do not commit these particular sins but because they do not believe in Jesus.

This verse is intended to be a warning not to the world (who were unlikely to read Paul's letter) but to THEM. Of course if no negative consequence was possible a warning is superfluous. Thus I conclude that a believer can lose their inheritance.

 

[Shasta]

Shasta! Did you really just say that? Lord have mercy. Regardless of what you may think, we all live in this fallen world. We all work "on the ground". This may well be the silliest statement I've heard to date. :rotfl:



Paul didn't kick believers out for their sin. Newsflash....not everyone seated in those pews is a believer.

And, since when does discipline of any kind mean a loss of salvation. When you sit your kids in a corner, are they still your kids?

I was specifically referring to seeing true Christians (those who at one time had a genuine salvation experience) who have fallen into sinful lifestyles. A lot of people act like this does not happen. Paul wrote strong letters sometimes so that he would not have to deal with them in a more confrontational way. From what I have read about Paul's personal rebukes I would not want to be the recipient of them.

Paul never said the man he kicked out of the Corinthian Church was an unbeliever. He never advised them to preach Christ to the man. In fact, he said Church discipline was not for unbelievers but believers.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I am not judging any particular group or Church but I have known many Christians who have fallen into sin. I have had occasion to talk to them at length about their life and while some of them were not believers many of them were.

How can one be a Christian without being a believer?

From where you are you may not be able to see these people but those of us who work on the ground deal with it all the time.

I see fakers all the time.

Paul had to take believers to task for their sin and even kick them out. He did not tell the Church to preach Christ to them so they would be saved, he disciplined them because they were believers. Was he being judgmental too or was he exercising truth and love.

Being removed from the local churches fellowship, isnt the same thing as being removed from the body of Christ.

Paul didn't kick anyone out of the body of Christ.

 

[Dan Emanuel]

...The beloved Apostle John, a true saint, wrote, "no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." A child can understand that. You and JohnW cannot understand because God has blinded your eyes to the truth. Otherwise you would understand simple ideas like, "whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and
does not know where he is going..." A murderer hates his brother, so no, JohnW cannot murder anyone today and claim to be a Christian at the same time...

You presume too much. Anybody can murder someone under the wrong circumstance's. If ever we commit a gravely illicit act, concomitantly with certain condition's that tend to force us into doing something that we don't want to do (Romans 7:22 KJV), that are ever with us (Romans 7:24 KJV, Romans 8:10 KJV), then we cannot be said to be morally responsible for what we do (Romans 8:1 KJV), therefore a true Christian can murder.

...If they commit any of the acts listed by Paul in Galatians 5:19-21, they are of the world and in the flesh...

See above, about being presumptuous. Of course murder is wrong, evil, sinful. But if it is not done voluntarily but is prompted externally by circumstance's beyond our ability to control currently (even if these circumstance's themselve's are a result of poor choice's that we made previously), then it isn't in Galatians 5:19-21 KJV. Those are thing's chosen of someones free will. If we find ourselve's doing those thing's as Christian's, we need to understand how this dead body (Romans 8:10 KJV) work's better.

...You...will have to give account on judgement day for your words.

'Looking forward to it. Romans 7:24 KJV


DJ

1.0
​

 

[glorydaz]

Heir you have not taken the whole passage into consideration. While it is true that many of them no longer lived in sin the current issue Paul was focusing on was that some of them had returned to their former habits

…8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong (cheat) and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
1 Corinthians 6:8

Who do you suppose he means when he says "you yourselves" but the believers he is writing to? If that is not enough proof that he is not talking to the unsaved he goes on to say call them "brothers" Taking verse 11 to apply to every one of them violates principles of sound hermeneutics and subverts the the meaning the passage.

Paul is saying that among them who were believers who were swindlers, frauds, cheats and crooks. One thing they were doing was taking each other to court over frivolous matters most likely for financial gain. This shows that Christians can fall into a lifestyle of sin (even after they were initially delivered). In this case, the sin they were addicted to was avarice.

In verse 9 Paul states a general principle:

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?

In verses 9-10 he says unrighteousness includes those who practice: idolatry, adultery, sexual immorality, drunkenness, homosexuality as well those who are swindlers

He says that those who PRACTICE such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Paul warns them not to be deceived - but about what? Is he warning that unbelievers will not inherit the kingdom of God? While true, that does not apply to them and, if OSAS is true the possibility of suffering their fate could hardly serve as a warning since it could never happen. It would be like a parent warning his child "If you do that again I am going to spank the neighbor's kid." Aside from that, people are not unsaved because they do or do not commit these particular sins but because they do not believe in Jesus.

This verse is intended to be a warning not to the world (who were unlikely to read Paul's letter) but to THEM. Of course if no negative consequence was possible a warning is superfluous.

At one point you call them habits and the next you call them sins. The UNRIGHTEOUS shall not inherit anything, but believers have the righteousness of Christ and have been delivered from the law. So the fact that you keep calling things sin is not supported by what Paul teaches regarding believers being dead to sin and alive unto God. What you claim is sin for believers is not sin at all since we are not under the law but under grace. What you're doing is denying that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for all who believe. It's simply your reading something into what Paul is saying. It's this attempt to mix law and grace which is causing the confusion we see here on this thread.

 

[glorydaz]

How can one be a Christian without being a believer?


I see fakers all the time.



Being removed from the local churches fellowship, isnt the same thing as being removed from the body of Christ.

Paul didn't kick anyone out of the body of Christ.

The Truth is such a simple thing. :thumb:

 

[glorydaz]

Why do you return negative reps, and not rather, turn the other cheek?

They simply cannot practice what they preach. It's why so many unbelievers avoid these so-called Christians and call them "holier than thou." It's so sad that they won't accept the free gift and try so hard to keep others from accepting it as well. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

 

[Shasta]

Then how can you claim you have to do something to stay saved? You believe in OSAS, but you just refuse to admit it.



Not true....you focus on that all the time in your posts on this thread.



So, because a particular doctrine is used as an excuse for sin, you will deny that doctrine even though you and the members of your church have no fear of losing their salvation. :think:





As you can see in the above quote, you were the one who brought up the beliefs of members in your church. I have said nothing about my church at all. Therefore, you'd have to make things up to make any "judgments".



And didn't you just say in the above quote that you felt you were not capable of accomplishing anything out of your own strength? How is it that you can continue doing what you are not capable of doing....in your own strength. ("Not of yourself" is written in Eph. 2 for a reason.)

I am not capable of bearing fruit without abiding in the Vine but through depending on the Holy Spirit I can. My strength comes from Him.

 

[glorydaz]

I was specifically referring to seeing true Christians (those who at one time had a genuine salvation experience) who have fallen into sinful lifestyles. A lot of people act like this does not happen. Paul wrote strong letters sometimes so that he would not have to deal with them in a more confrontational way. From what I have read about Paul's personal rebukes I would not want to be the recipient of them.

Paul never said the man he kicked out of the Corinthian Church was an unbeliever. He never advised them to preach Christ to the man. In fact, he said Church discipline was not for unbelievers but believers.

Gosh, did they have a sign hung around their neck so that you knew what only God can know? You people never cease to amaze me. :chuckle:

 

[Right Divider]

by listening to someone like you deny them:

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

She's a classic cherry-picking Bible chopper.

 

[glorydaz]

I am not capable of bearing fruit without abiding in the Vine but through depending on the Holy Spirit I can. My strength comes from Him.

Nothing about the Vine that relates to the body of Christ. This is why the confusion. That verse actually says you can do NOTHING. Nothing means NOTHING...

 

[genuineoriginal]

How can one be a Christian without being a believer?

It is not difficult, I have met plenty of non-believing Christians in my lifetime.

I see fakers all the time.

I see you have met many as well.

 

[Shasta]

At one point you call them habits and the next you call them sins. The UNRIGHTEOUS shall not inherit anything, but believers have the righteousness of Christ and have been delivered from the law. So the fact that you keep calling things sin is not supported by what Paul teaches regarding believers being dead to sin and alive unto God. What you claim is sin for believers is not sin at all since we are not under the law but under grace. What you're doing is denying that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for all who believe. It's simply your reading something into what Paul is saying. It's this attempt to mix law and grace which is causing the confusion we see here on this thread.

…8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
1 Corinthians 6:8-9

He is saying here that Christians can sin? We are dead to sin only because we continue to surrender not because we surrendered one time at salvation. The confusion comes from the fact that neither MAD nor and OSAS do not comport with sound exegesis or an historical understanding of the Biblical teaching.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Paul didn't kick anyone out of the body of Christ.

Paul isn't the person that blots people's names from the book of life.

When Jesus blots a person's name from the book of life, that person is no longer in the body of Christ.

Revelation 3:1-6 1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

believers have the righteousness of Christ and have been delivered from the law.

You are claiming that you have been delivered from these two commandments?

• Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
• Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[Shasta]

It is not difficult, I have met plenty of non-believing Christians in my lifetime.


I see you have met many as well.

And I have met people who had a genuine salvation experience in the past but who have subsequently fallen back into the sins they were delivered from. If they have a background in OSAS they usually figure there is nothing to worry about. They will be all right in the end. One teacher's faith in OSAS was so unshakable that he said when Jesus came he would even be raptured out of a bed of Adultery to meet him in the air. I have seen a lot of this antinominanism.

 

[Angel4Truth]

It is not difficult, I have met plenty of non-believing Christians in my lifetime.

No, you havent, you have met people who call themselves Christians who aren't, but you have never met a Christian that is a non believer.

 

[genuineoriginal]

And I have met people who had a genuine salvation experience in the past but who have subsequently fallen back into the sins they were delivered from.

I have met people like that as well.

Some have been fortunate to have learned repentance and after they repented they found out that they have not been completely abandoned.

Others died in their sins and will never enter the kingdom of God.