O'Reilly is changing my mind RE "free" college...

[Quincy]

You forgot too fair and balanced. lain:

There's no spin in the no spin zone! Except for the countless times he spins his pins........

 

[Morpheus]

Aren't there already grants that would pay for community college if one cannot afford it, its called a pell grant - they are usually enough to pay for community college.

Just think about the red tape that would be eliminated just in processing Pell Grant applications.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Just think about the red tape that would be eliminated just in processing Pell Grant applications.

Just think about all the people crowding the community college just because they can, when they have no real serious interest in anything and then the community colleges dumbing down the curriculum like high schools do to make it easier for people to pass so they dont "look biased" then we all know how well the government runs the education system in the lower grades...

At any rate, anyone who really wants to attend a college can find a way to be in one, provided they meet the requirements to attend and can fill out an application, thats not too much to ask.

 

[genuineoriginal]

what about the morons?

:think: They could run for Congress.

They would be rejected for being over-qualified for the job.

 

[Quincy]

Just think about all the people crowding the community college just because they can

I have a family member who has a degree in law, because he was intelligent enough to obtain it, had the aptitude, pays highly and everyone says it's the field to go into (other than healthcare). Turns out, the field is saturated and he is working a job somewhat under his qualifications. He won't be able to pay back his loans as fast as he should be able to, which is going to be part of a problem that has and will lead to even more inflation in tuition over time.

If only something like job demand dictated the supply of qualified workers in a direct way.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I have a family member who has a degree in law, because he was intelligent enough to obtain it, had the aptitude, pays highly and everyone says it's the field to go into (other than healthcare). Turns out, the field is saturated and he is working a job somewhat under his qualifications. He won't be able to pay back his loans as fast as he should be able to, which is going to be part of a problem that has and will lead to even more inflation in tuition over time.

If only something like job demand dictated the supply of qualified workers in a direct way.

I think that should be heavily part of the process of determining majors, a lot of people go into law for the $ and then maybe after 8 or so tries, pass the bar, when they should have never been in it to begin with.

That same situation would be the case for free for all entry into college on a much larger scale, as well as the dumbing down to meet more needs - and the disruption of those there to learn and excell.

I remember one of my professors on the first day of class say right out, i dont care if you pass or fail or even if you show up, its your money, and if you want to waste it, dont let me stop you, and if you want to get what you paid for, then pay attention, do your work and show up.

 

[Quincy]

I remember one of my professors on the first day of class say right out, i dont care if you pass or fail or even if you show up, its your money, and if you want to waste it, dont let me stop you, and if you want to get what you paid for, then pay attention, do your work and show up.

I believe it. I've only heard of student oriented technical colleges caring about students in a positive way.

When it became public knowledge that the IT field was saturated, I contacted three universities in this region and talked with them about entering their IT programs. I just wanted to see what they'd say. Only one of them told me what I believe to be true. They said the field was saturated in most areas of the country and that there was little demand for it in mine. That was appreciated but the other two told me there was high demand in the field :chuckle: . Education as a business, not always the best thing.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I believe it. I've only heard of student oriented technical colleges caring about students in a positive way.

When it became public knowledge that the IT field was saturated, I contacted three universities in this region and talked with them about entering their IT programs. I just wanted to see what they'd say. Only one of them told me what I believe to be true. They said the field was saturated in most areas of the country and that there was little demand for it in mine. That was appreciated but the other two told me there was high demand in the field :chuckle: . Education as a business, not always the best thing.

It would be much worse with open admissions so open that anyone can be there. With nothing to lose, it doesn't cost them a thing if they go there to play (students) and with more $ guaranteed via the taxpayer, it would become way more about that (the money and who cares if they should pass or not, they have to meet their quotas on so many passing they dumb everyone down so they keep getting that fat government check) than seeing that people who actually want to learn get an education.

 

[jsjohnnt]

quincy wrote: There's no spin in the no spin zone! Except for the countless times he spins his pins........

Not to be disagreeable but I have stopped watching O'Reily altogether, as 10 years of listening to the guy. I could care less for his opinions on most of anything. I watch to learn something about what is going on, not to listen to him opine about his solutions and world view. I call that spin and it is at least half of each night's program. He does have his moments, however, and pretty much owns the View. Those women simply do not know how to handle him. I saw Glenn Beck on the View, several years ago, and those women destroyed him. Anyway, so much for my spin on the spin-meister.

Oooops - Actually, I just reviewed Quincy's comment. Looks like I missed his point altogether. Turns out we agree. I am an old man, so blame it on that.

 

[jgarden]

At any rate, anyone who really wants to attend a college can find a way to be in one, provided they meet the requirements to attend and can fill out an application, that's not too much to ask.

Why don't the politicians use the same kind of reasoning when they're running for office - please don't throw money at our campaigns, we'll manage somehow!

Perhaps the military should hold bake sales the next time they need an aircraft carrier or Homeland Security have raffles to raise funds to combat terrorism - where there's a will there's a way!

We can always generate the money for things we find important, but despite rhetoric to the contrary, America's children and public education have never been priorities in this country.

None of the 7 nations that are currently providing free tuition for their citizens to attend college/university can match US in terms of wealth and economic resources, but all have come to the conclusion that investing in the education of their people will pay dividends in the future.

 

[Angel4Truth]

We can always generate the money for things we find important, but despite rhetoric to the contrary, America's children and public education have never been priorities in this country. [/b]

They are priorities to those who care, which is why we want the governments dictates and hands off of them.

 

[Quincy]

quincy wrote: There's no spin in the no spin zone! Except for the countless times he spins his pins........

Not to be disagreeable but I have stopped watching O'Reily altogether, as 10 years of listening to the guy. I could care less for his opinions on most of anything. I watch to learn something about what is going on, not to listen to him opine about his solutions and world view. I call that spin and it is at least half of each night's program. He does have his moments, however, and pretty much owns the View. Those women simply do not know how to handle him. I saw Glenn Beck on the View, several years ago, and those women destroyed him. Anyway, so much for my spin on the spin-meister.

Oooops - Actually, I just reviewed Quincy's comment. Looks like I missed his point altogether. Turns out we agree. I am an old man, so blame it on that.

It's ok, no problems haha. I'll blame it on my lack of using enough smilies in my posts. I do agree with you, I believe he clearly has a bias on most issues. He does occasionally give credit where it is due, such as giving Holder credit for not filing charges in the Ferguson case recently.

 

[jgarden]

They are priorities to those who care, which is why we want the governments dictates and hands off of them.

A nation that doesn't take an active role in investing in the education of its people, particularly in the 21stC, is a country that can expect to be left behind - economically, technically, militarily, socially, culturally, politically.

Jefferson and the Founding Fathers realized that a democracy cannot function unless it has a literate, well-educated electorate capable of making informed decisions in an ever changing world.

Its not just a matter of coincidence that those nations during the 18th and 19thC that didn't invest in the public education of their citizens often ended up becoming colonies of the ones that did.

 

[Morpheus]

Top 10 Highly Developed Countries Based on Human Development Index (HDI)
Note education, per capita GDP, healthcare, and poverty rates. One thing not covered in the article is that with the other countries having similar and higher per capita GDPs we have the highest hours of work/week. Considering those factors together means that we work more hours/week to make the same income; then many of us have to use much of that income to pay for an education and healthcare, while elsewhere they get better quality education with little to no out-of-pocket expense. It's called "American exceptionalism".

Top 10 Highly Developed Countries

 

[jgarden]

How Canada stole the American Dream
June 25, 2008

The numbers are in. Compared to the U.S., we work less, live longer, enjoy better health and have more sex. And get this: now we’re wealthier too.

To be an American is to be the best. Every American believes this. Their sports champions are not U.S. champions, they’re world champions. Their corporations aren’t the largest in the States, they’re the largest on the planet. Their armies don’t defend just America, they defend freedom.

..... but it turns out that while they’ve been out conquering the world, here in Canada we’ve been quietly working away at building better lives. While they’ve been pursuing happiness, we’ve been achieving it.

- Canadians live longer and have fewer diseases. We have more sex, more sex partners and we’re more adventurous in bed, but we have fewer teen pregnancies and fewer sexually transmitted diseases. We spend more time with family and friends, and more time exploring the world. Even in crime we come out ahead: we’re just as prone to break the law, but when we do it, we don’t get shot. Most of the time, we don’t even go to jail.

- as of 2005, the median family in Canada was worth US$122,600, according to Statistics Canada, while the U.S. Federal Reserve pegged the median American family at US$93,100 in 2004

- Americans carry far more debt than we do, and it means that the median Canadian family is a full 30 per cent wealthier than the median American family

- Americans owe more. A lot more. Here in Canada the average amount of personal debt per person is US$23,460. In the U.S. it's a whopping US$40,250. And all those numbers are from 2005, just before their housing market slipped into a sinkhole. If you looked at the numbers now, you'd find that Americans are even further behind, because their largest asset — their home — is worth less.

Americans like to spend big. They have bigger homes than we do, averaging about 2,500 sq. feet, compared to only 2,000 sq. feet in Canada. They spend about 34 per cent of their annual household expenditure on their homes, compared to just 19 per cent here. They also love big cars. In the U.S., luxury cars and SUVs make up 21 per cent of the market, whereas in Canada, they make up only 11 per cent.

- Bibby, the sociologist, says the great American debt load is a direct result of their relentless quest for the best. "American culture is more consumer-oriented due to a more intense and more vigorous marketplace," he says. "My sense is that more dollars are spent per capita on advertising, for example. Little wonder then that per capita debt is considerably higher in the U.S. than in Canada.

- health care, too, is helping to keep Americans in a state of owe, and for all the same reasons. In the U.S., as long as you have a good insurance plan, you have access to the best health care in the world. MRI machines are available on an hour's notice, there's plenty of staff, and the specialists are the finest there are. But all of that comes at a cost, says Van Boven, and every American feels it.

- "The absolute biggest difference, financially, that I noticed was the cost of health insurance," he says. "When my wife got laid off, we found out that you could keep the insurance you got through work for a while as long as you paid for it. But it cost $5,000 a year, and that was back in 1986. We couldn't afford that. So since then I've had no health insurance." Eric Nay, who moved to Toronto from California, says that even Americans with good insurance feel the pinch. "When I taught for the state of California, I had the best health coverage on the planet," he reports. "But when my son was born — and it was totally by the book, no complications — my insurance only covered the first $10,000 of the hospital costs. The remaining $8,000 came out of my pocket. And that's with full coverage."

- in Canada, not only are we wealthier, but we don't even have to work as hard to make that wealth. In 2004, the average Canadian worker put in 35 hours of work per week, while our American counterparts put in 38. Only 30 per cent of Canadians work 45 hours a week or more, compared to 38 per cent of Americans.

- much more vacation time. Employed adults in Canada get about 17 vacation days a year, and we take 16 of those days, leaving just one on the table. In the U.S., they get 14 days of vacation, but they only take 11, making them the world leader in yet another category: the working drudge.

- Canadians tend to have a lot more fun. We spend more time with friends than Americans do, and we're much more likely to have a sit-down dinner with the family at home each night. We also tend to drink alcohol more often, with 27 per cent of us having a drink at least a few times a week, compared to 19 per cent of Americans

- the gaps between rich and poor, or black and white within the confines of the U.S. are much deeper and wider than the gap between the two countries. And within that mix, he says there's a subset of Americans who are just like Canadians. "Left-wing urban Americans," he says. "Canada is just a country of left-wing urban Americans." Still, he says that the relentless zeal, the private schools, the long work hours, not to mention the fact that everyone in L.A. seems to carry a gun, well, it all gets him down sometimes.

- the U.S. is a country that aggressively pursues happiness, but Canada seems to have just stumbled onto it. While Americans are putting in overtime to pursue the American dream, we're at the pub having a few pints with friends. They may have bigger cars and bigger homes, but they're living under a mountain of debt. They look richer, but the numbers prove that they're not. The truth is that all of that competition, all of that keeping up with the Joneses, can take its toll.

- it's true that the best in the U.S. is the best you'll find on the planet. But when you look at the medians and the averages, their accomplishment pales. As the hard numbers in this report show, Americans have shorter lives, poorer health, less sex, more divorces, and more violent crime. Which may mean that perhaps America isn't the greatest nation on earth. After all, you can't judge a nation by the best it produces, you have to judge it by the success of the average Joe. And the average Joe in Canada is having a way better time.

http://www.macleans.ca/canada/nation...3_50113&page=1

While some Americans would be quick to dismiss Canada as being too "socialist/communist" by US standards

- living longer,

- working less,

- better health,

- less debt,

- more time with family and friends

- fewer divorces,

- more sex,

- less violent crime,

- longer holidays,

- fewer guns

- lower university/college tuition

- access to healthcare based on need, not ability to pay

- fewer diseases

- more sex partners

- fewer teen pregnancies

- more adventurous in bed

- fewer sexually transmitted diseases

- more equality between rich and poor and between the different races

- less homophobic (gay marriage is legal, the premier of Ontario is a confirmed lesbian)

- guaranteed pregnancy/newborn leave for mothers

- a lower national debt (AAA Moody rating)

- a far smaller % of the population incarcerated

- a better social safety net

- fewer incidents of civil unrest

- greater average financial wealth

should all count for something!

 

[fool]

While some Americans would be quick to dismiss Canada as being too "socialist/communist" by US standards

- living longer,

- working less,

- better health,

- less debt,

- more time with family and friends

- fewer divorces,

- more sex,

- less violent crime,

- longer holidays,

- fewer guns

- lower university/college tuition

- access to healthcare based on need, not ability to pay

- fewer diseases

- more sex partners

- fewer teen pregnancies

- more adventurous in bed

- fewer sexually transmitted diseases

- more equality between rich and poor and between the different races

- less homophobic (gay marriage is legal, the premier of Ontario is a confirmed lesbian)

- guaranteed pregnancy/newborn leave for mothers

- a lower national debt (AAA Moody rating)

- a far smaller % of the population incarcerated

- a better social safety net

- fewer incidents of civil unrest

- greater average financial wealth

should all count for something!

How did they quantify the "more adventurous in bed" part?

 

[Alate_One]

Because it makes a lot more sense to spend thousands of dollars a year to keep someone in prison, rather than give them "free" college.

Mind you the "free" college still has a grade requirement, and lazy people aren't going to be free for very long.

 

[Town Heretic]

How did they quantify the "more adventurous in bed" part?

In Canada I think it means they take their socks off. lain:

 

[serpentdove]

[T]he gov already DOES sorta give people $ for college... pell grants.

There's no such thing as a free lunch (Ex 20:15, Pr 22:7).

“I remember my father taking me to see the $5 trillion mark so long ago, and now I’m bringing my own children here to take part in the festivities. It’s really a special part of our nation’s culture...” Full text: Chinese Citizens Gather In Beijing Square To Watch U.S. National Debt Clock Strike $18 Trillion

 

[fool]

Because it makes a lot more sense to spend thousands of dollars a year to keep someone in prison, rather than give them "free" college.

Are those the only two choices?
Why are those the only two choices?
I wasn't aware that everyone that didn't go to college went to prison.