Now you are thinking like a liberal democrat. :up:
O'Reilly is changing my mind RE "free" college...
- Thread starter republicanchick
- Start date
Now you are thinking like a liberal democrat. :up:
There is nothing wrong with taking the best from Europe and adapting it to our own country.
Germany has developed a useful infrastructure and grid to make good use of solar energy. The top one percent in Germany is not nearly as wealthy so the income gap is not as large there.
In America, the billionaire Koch Brothers spend millions every year to squelch the spread of solar power. These poor guys were abused as children and they are only re-creating the abuse they felt on other people.
http://www.amazon.com/Sons-Wichita-Brothers-Americas-Powerful/dp/1455518735
One of the brothers still carries a scar on his back where his authoritarian father stabbed him with a sword.
I never read the Harry Potter books, so that's unfair from the jump.
lain:Tell me that again if you need surgery.
You want an educated broker, worker, great--pay for it yourself. That's sort of the compromise Q suggested, with both parties contracting to facilitate it.
Morpheus
New member
Out of curiosity, does it bother you that for centuries most businesses bore the expense of job training through apprenticeships and entry-level jobs where the skills were learned through employment and on-the-job training? Yet over the past 40 years business has transferred the burden of basic job training onto the individual, expecting them to acquire those skills prior to employment at their own expense, thereby greatly expanding the trade and business school "industry". And now, after having gone into debt to pay for what employers used to provide, the pretrained entry-level employee makes no more than untrained entry-level workers used to. From the perspective of an employer this is gre-e-eat; from the perspective of an education industry this is a windfall; but from the position of a young person or parent this is just one more of the many burdens of expense taken off of businesses to be piled on his back in the last 35 years.
:mock: Koch brothers paranoia.
Tell me again how many surgeons come out of community college.
All of my kids (the ones old enough) have attended some form of community college. They all paid for it themselves by working and going to school at the same time.
Some of them are going on to higher education. Guess what? They are paying for it themselves.
Some of them are going on to higher education. Guess what? They are paying for it themselves.
Well, the really bad ones.
lain:...in Mexico. But I was answering your more general:Not, "Community college is overrated."
And did you know that kids transferring from community college, on average, do better than kids who started in the same institutions of higher learning?
Genius.
Can we change the name of the cafeteria to Culinary Arts and get credits for eating lunch?
Maybe have the students make lunch and give them credit.
Seriously.
We had that in my High school, not the lunch part but there was a County Wide vocational school you could go to for half the day and become a welder or mechanic or machinist or nurses assistant.
Well, what about giving diners a humanities credit?
Oh, all right. The college idea is daft, but as trades go or as credits toward college in a culinary arts degree, why not?
I think vocational schools are great. I'd have loved to have learned some of the machinists trade. Having an ancient home I've slowly but surely acquired reasonable proficiency in a number of trades by necessity...until my ship comes in...and when it does, if my luck holds, it will need work. :mmph:
And we have free education, if we had freer education then maybe we could be bester.
Europe gets to lollygag around doing nothing because we do all the things.
We have half the aircraft carriers on the planet.
I think kids need to come out of High School ready to do something besides just go to College.
Quincy
New member
Well, I learned of that approach from a hospital near here. They do something similar, involving signing bonuses for new nurses if they agree to work there for so long (doctors too, if they do residency and a few years of practice there) . Basically, the person gets $5, 000 or more for signing on with them. If they need workers that bad, I think it would be possible that they pay for eligible students to get a LPN license out of school. Then they could work there at the hospital, get experience and save up some cash to pay for the RN degree on their own. That way, the nurse gets valuable experience in the field, has no debt and learns how to manage their finances. That's a more valuable experience than sitting in Financial Aid offices every semester for several years.
Yea, of course an employer needs to protect themselves and their investment.
It would just be better if employers cultivated their own work forces. Many already do this if an employee wants to further their education after being hired, why not do it prior if it helps upcoming generations find gainful employment faster and have less debt. Most large companies could do that if their suits didn't require multi-million dollar salaries and payouts.
Quincy
New member
Indeed, and it plays to my point of a student starting out in a trade and then saving up to pay cash for University. Sure, maybe they could go to a vocational school during their later high school years but not everyone wants to become an electrician or plumber.
Basically, we should train people to be able to do entry level jobs in their field of choice either through vocational institutes or community college and then let them work in the field for a few years to save up the cash for university. Sure, you might not be able to shove your kids out the door at 18 but if it improves their future, it's worth trying.
Anyways, we need to do something besides old fashioned tax and spend, or even worse - just pay for it yourself without any sort of plan in place, so kids end up working at McDonald's the rest of their life, starve, sell drugs, whatever.
genuineoriginal
New member
ditsy?
Who is "we"? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?
You are free to pay for other people's education if you like. But please... don't include me in your "we".
Really??? Their field of choice?? What if they want to be a DJ, or an astronaut, or a flamingo dancer??
Seriously??
If a person wants to enter a field.... they can go to college and pay for it themselves like the rest of us do. If they do... my guess is they will get the most out of it. Typically when you get stuff for free.... it is of very little value to you.
PureX
Well-known member
The problem is that foolish people keep blaming these programs that are intended to help them, when they fail, when in reality they failed because of poor execution. Social Security is an excellent idea that works exceptionally well when implemented correctly. National health care is an excellent idea that works exceptionally well when implemented correctly. Public aid programs such as Welfare and Food Stamps are excellent ideas that work exceptionally well when they're implemented correctly. And public education is also an excellent idea that works exceptionally well when properly implemented. We know this because there are many other nations around the planet that have managed to implement these programs properly, and they have worked very well for them.
And they would work very well for us, too, if only we could implement them properly. But we can't do that because our government makes all it's decisions based on profiteering instead of on the public good. And to maintain and compound that problem, we have too many citizens ignorantly blaming the very programs that would help them, most, instead of blaming their failed implementation by a corrupted government. It's a kind of social suicide by willful ignorance.
And they would work very well for us, too, if only we could implement them properly. But we can't do that because our government makes all it's decisions based on profiteering instead of on the public good. And to maintain and compound that problem, we have too many citizens ignorantly blaming the very programs that would help them, most, instead of blaming their failed implementation by a corrupted government. It's a kind of social suicide by willful ignorance.
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In Kabul or the west?
Quincy
New member
We = private sector. You won't be paying anything under what I said because the government won't be taxing and spending for higher education, it would be privatized. If you can't pay for higher education but you have potential, an employer could select you, pay your tuition for a trade or associate's degree and then you work for them to pay it back, however long they require. During that time, the worker can save up their own money to pay for university once their contract's over, so that they can finish their education.
If a radio station wants to pay for a young talented person to get a basic communications degree, as long as that person agrees to work for them for 2 or 3 years after they graduate, there's no money coming out of your pocket. The kid can then save up money to pay for university on their own from their own salary.
I said in my previous post that they would be paying for it themselves, from their salary earned by working. I said several times that the system of government tax and spend for higher education doesn't work and that we need a new approach. So, I actually agree with you, despite the knee-jerk reaction.
All I'm adding is that the private sector.... prospective employers.... could pay for a talented young person's first year or two of training (one that they want to hire but can't afford higher education), as long as they agree to work for the employer to pay the service back with their hours. During that time, the kid would actually be able to work and save up enough money to pay for university on their own.