On Deservedness

[Arthur Brain]

Bad enough? I lean towards God's view which says she deserves death.

Everybody dies GD, haven't you realized that yet? Quit using that as some yardstick to attempt to 'justify' that a *slut* deserves rape to boot.

You should really try and be a little original instead of using my analogy of your needing to grow up.

I was just being straight up with you GD. You didn't even have an analogy, just some childish little 'soundbite'. So grow up. No analogy about that.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Same example I gave to Doser: your grandson is running alongside a pool. He runs the risk of slipping, falling, and busting his skull open. Does he deserve that?

Sensible answer: Of course he doesn't. A possible consequence sure, as is walking out of the door onto an icy pavement and slipping for 24 yards before flying headlong into a stop sign...deserved? Nope.

Well there's a pretty big difference between your example and the slutty rape victim example: in yours, you are committing a crime at the owner's expense, and you are in the wrong. In the rape victim's, her rapist is committing a crime at her expense, and he is in the wrong.

Exactly. The *slut* doesn't deserve rape no matter what, but there'd be no fun for the pompous moralist prudes if they didn't have a 'finger to wag'...

 

[Tambora]

Jesus wants the rose

 

[bybee]

I'm a lawyer and a movie star

May I have your autograph? :cheers:

 

[kmoney]

Paul was speaking of when righteousness came from the law. Paul then goes on to say this...."BUT NOW the righteousness of God without the law is manifested...." and "To declare, AT THIS TIME...."

Romans 3:21-22 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.​

So let's just back up to the verse I was citing. I said Paul would not have been talking about the final judgment, because the final judgment will be based on whether men are believers or unbelievers. Paul speaks of the evil the coppersmith did to him (personally), and asks that the Lord reward him according to his works. I'm sure we can agree that Paul was not being spiteful and damning Alexander as an unbeliever wanting the Lord to send him to hell. Rather, he was asking the Lord to have him suffer consequences right here on earth so that he would learn that doing evil does not pay.

2 Timothy 4:14
Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:​

We see a similar thing here....which speaks to the value of reaping what we sow right here in this life.

1 Corinthians 5:1-2
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

1 Cor. 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.​

I think we're getting further from the topic so I'm going to skip this part. I've also been trying and failing to exit from these rape threads.

Consequences for one's actions are always deserved. Actions have consequences. They may be unintended consequences, but that doesn't remove the fact that they have been earned by the very doing of them.

Disagree. I think you are using 'consequences' too broadly. And are not putting enough emphasis on the fact that rape is a conscious action by a person.

I saw that another scenario came up about a kid running on a wet surface and if he deserves to slip and hurt himself. You said that if the kid was old enough to understand the risks and was told not to run then they would deserve it. I don't think it's a good comparison because slipping and falling is a natural result of running on a slippery surface. There are physics involved. I still probably wouldn't say he deserved to fall and hurt himself, but there is a much closer connection between his actions and the result. Such that 'earn' would be more reasonable.

A better comparison would be something like this. A kid runs and bumps into someone else's kid. The parent of that other kid comes over and punches the runner in the face. Does he deserve that?

Rape isn't a natural consequence of a girl being promiscuous like slipping while running on a wet surface is. You shouldn't ignore the element of someone making a conscious decision and treat all consequences in the same manner.

I can't "admit" something that isn't true. :idunno:

Neither can I.

 

[kmoney]

Jesus wants the rose

Nice video. Not familiar with him.

 

[glorydaz]

No, that wasn't the point. I was pointing out how ill-fitting your example of robbing a bank was (you are the aggressor) compared to the rape example (the rapist is the aggressor)

I gave the example as an EXAMPLE of unintended consequences. If you took it as more than that, it isn't my fault.

I will say, though, that the stripper had some aggressive actions of her own, so she not innocent in this matter.

Well, now that you brought up strippers I couldn't disagree any more. That's a legitimate profession, whether you approve of it or not. An employee of a strip club has it in her job description to "dance" and keep men company, and does so with the understanding that she will be kept safe by any bouncers hired by the club. Does her job mean she is more vulnerable to situations where a rape could occur than the average person? Yes. But she should never encounter that situation if the club holds up their end of the bargain

That stripping is a "legitimate profession" has nothing to do with this subject either. Nor does one's "understanding" of what is safe and what isn't safe. It's a question of right and wrong and personal responsibility for one's own behavior.

 

[glorydaz]

Nice video. Not familiar with him.

It's a great video, and it goes to show that a stripper being raped, even when a consequence of her bad behavior, will not keep her from knowing the love of God and the need she has for him. God ALLOWS suffering for a higher purpose, and the bystanders denying that happens won't help anyone....especially the woman who was raped.

Rather than try and tell the stripper she is fine doing what she's doing and has no fault, explain how Jesus sees her as a ruined and broken rose who is in need of His love. Explain how we all sin and come short....how we all deserve death, but are offered LIFE. The Gospel can't be preached without the recognition of our sin and our need for a Saviour. Telling a stripper she has no sin and doesn't deserve to suffer it's consequences is not the way to preach the Gospel to anyone.

 

[Rusha]

A better comparison would be something like this. A kid runs and bumps into someone else's kid. The parent of that other kid comes over and punches the runner in the face. Does he deserve that?

Rape isn't a natural consequence of a girl being promiscuous like slipping while running on a wet surface is. You shouldn't ignore the element of someone making a conscious decision and treat all consequences in the same manner.

:thumb: Great examples ... even though IMO, rape has been specifically singled out for one reason: the victims are normally female. Women having the right to say no works against male privilege. That would also explain the ridiculous arguments against marital rape.

 

[Greg Jennings]

I'm not demanding anything. I'm simply stating that, according to God, people reap what they sow in this world. I can see that you're a humanist who lives in a world of your own imagination....where we are "more peaceful and humane" than ever.

And that's all well and good if you truly aren't trying to push your code on anyone else who doesn't want it.

You're correct that the "code" I follow is not that of this world we live in, but it's not MY code. It's the "code" of the ONE TRUE GOD, and, therefore, I have no need to change anything.

Perhaps you're unaware of this fact, but the exact same argument is put forward by members of Islamic extremist organizations such as ISIS and Boko Haram in order to justify their violence. Such is the danger of religious fundamentalism

 

[Greg Jennings]

Of course we do...you're a humanist. I'm not.

I'm open to religion, but since I currently am agnostic then yes I suppose I'm a humanist.

At the time we were talking about unintended consequences, weren't we?

Yes, in a thread about deserving bad things. As I pointed out to you, if you rob a bank you are the aggressor and in no way can expect the owner of that store to treat you as anything but one. When you are a girl who isn't doing anything wrong though she may be promiscuous, she isn't an aggressor by any means in a rape. The two situations are simply miles apart.

Originally, I was talking about a stripper at a frat party. But, that has nothing to with the fact that bad behavior can, and often does, carry bad consequences.

I'd say from experience that a stripper at a frat party is safer than when outside of a strip club going home. I was the stripper, of course

Bargain? Like a deal with the devil? lain:

No, like an agreement with your boss

 

[musterion]

This woman deserved it 100%.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-jailed-two-years.html?ICO=most_read_module

 

[Greg Jennings]

This woman deserved it 100%.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-jailed-two-years.html?ICO=most_read_module

Deserved what? She wasn't raped. She's just a crappy person

 

[musterion]

Deserved what? She wasn't raped. She's just a crappy person

Not very bright, are you.

 

[gcthomas]

Not very bright, are you.

And you are a crock full of Christian love.

Well, a crock of something. :think:

 

[patrick jane]

Deserved what? She wasn't raped. She's just a crappy person

She deserves prison for crying rape

 

[Greg Jennings]

She deserves prison for crying rape

I couldn't agree more. One of the most messed up situations I've ever seen was the Duke Lacrosse rape case from several years ago. The woman, who was immediately backed by al sharpton and jesse Jackson with no evidence whatsoever, turned out to be a complete liar and those kids reputations were ruined forever because of it. She belongs in prison

 

[Greg Jennings]

Not very bright, are you.

I'm comfortable in my intelligence. You don't seem to be

 

[Arthur Brain]

Not very bright, are you.

What, and you are?

In case you hadn't noticed, nobody is pro false rape allegations on here dingbat.

 

[patrick jane]

I couldn't agree more. One of the most messed up situations I've ever seen was the Duke Lacrosse rape case from several years ago. The woman, who was immediately backed by al sharpton and jesse Jackson with no evidence whatsoever, turned out to be a complete liar and those kids reputations were ruined forever because of it. She belongs in prison

This guy might deserve some prison -


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