On Deservedness
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ClimateSanity
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And???????
LoneStar
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I agree. So if the sin of raping a woman is just doing God's will, then cannot also the sin of being a harlot be doing God's will?
LoneStar
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Is that the standard society is to live by?
ClimateSanity
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Yes....and how does this refute anything being said on this thread?
ClimateSanity
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No. ???????? I have no idea what your point is as relating to refuting points made on this thread.
glorydaz
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I think the idea seems to be that rape is never allowed by God as a consequence for any bad behavior.
The question that remains to be addressed then is whether God allows bad things to happen to people here on earth as a result of their bad behavior. If He does, why is rape excluded?
LoneStar
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You are the one that mentioned God using sinners against sinners, as if that were some sort of acceptable answer to the question of God's will toward women strippers deserving to be raped. But it doesn't, does it. Because in another instance God told a righteous man to marry a harlot.
And there is another woman that played the harlot which ended up having a bastard child that would be in the genealogy of King David and Christ.
If God can use harlotry for good things, then can He not also use strippers for good things?
LoneStar
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No dear. Any rape (or any sin) that ever occurs was allowed by God.
Yes. God also allows good things to happen to bad behavior, and allows bad things to happen to good behavior.
You appear to think that anything that happens in the process of sinning is a consequence of that sin and was earned/deserved. I don't agree.
I'm not saying that some sins are exempt from consequences. I'm saying that rape can only loosely be called a consequence of promiscuous behavior, if ever, and that it wouldn't be a deserved consequence.
:up:
glorydaz
Well-known member
The rapist isn't doing God's will.
The stripper isn't doing God's will.
But God certainly can allow the evil actions of the rapist to work as a consequence of the stripper's immoral behavior.
Just as God allowed the evil actions of the Philistines (putting out Samson's eyes) to work as a consequence for Samson's immoral behavior of lust for Delilah.
I don't know for certain but these passages come to mind...
Luk 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
....that I think indicate that God isn't allowing bad things to happen as punishment for someone's sins or as a way of bringing about repentance.
Can good things come from bad events? Sure. But does God allow them for the purpose that you're saying He does? I don't think so.
And as I've said before, even if He does then in any given case we don't know what God's intention was in it. I'll err on the side of assuming that God was NOT allowing a terrible thing as punishment in this life or to bring about repentance.
And that's probably the end of what I can say on the subject.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Hey Tex. :wave:
Yep, and for different reasons. The reasons vary....sometimes as a punishment for bad behavior, and sometimes to make us stronger or more able to comfort others.
Good things to happen for bad behavior? Maybe when viewed through the eyes of the natural man of the flesh. Ill gotten gains might appear good, but they are never "good". And the "bad things" that happen for good behavior are never really bad from God's point of view.
LoneStar
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This verse was brought up in defense of it being God's will of women being raped.
Zechariah 14:2 KJV
(2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Not a good defense for a standard of society concerning rape at all, now is it? Especially considering that God allows both good and bad things to happen to both the just and the unjust.
glorydaz
Well-known member
The problem seems to come from the idea that the work of the Cross relieves us from the principle of reaping and sowing IN THIS LIFE. It doesn't.
What I have seen is that suffering the consequences for one's bad behavior most certainly does cause people to turn to the Lord for His mercy and grace. It's the consequences of evil that cause us to look toward the light.
I do, and the case of the stripper is actually a very good one. A girl who is stripping has some major problems. I realize the unbelievers don't know that, but the rest of us do. Any bad results that come from her stripping can be counted as "good". Anything that will make her TURN FROM HER WAYS, is "good". She can look at the darkness with its results, and when the light is brought her way, it beckons her.
You're right, we don't know. That's why I say when we look back at what happens, then we can know God allowed it for a purpose. The purposes vary from punishment to get her to turn, or a means of strengthening and growth.....depending on where there was bad behavior involved or there wasn't. No bad behavior then you can know it was for some purpose of growth.
I'm one who sees the benefits of spanking our children are ONE of the consequences of bad behavior. It's a punishment as well as a learning tool. Just because we forgive our children, doesn't mean they don't deserve to be spanked. We, as parents, have many other tools at our disposal, and God has even more.
LoneStar
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You are sounding more and more like a Karma believer.
ClimateSanity
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Any bad consequence is a result of that sin, if you can show a reasonable trail from one to the other. Promiscuous behavior incites lust sometimes in men. A lust filled man who lacks morals is a prime candidate for rape.
LoneStar
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A man who lacks morals is one that sees raping a woman as a DESERVED consequence. Pervert to the core.
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