Again, so?
I wasn't at the Alamo or Normandy Beach either. I can't call those Americans Heroes? But I do, millions do.
Your logic is flawed.
On Cowards and Heroes
- Thread starter ok doser
- Start date
Again, so?
I wasn't at the Alamo or Normandy Beach either. I can't call those Americans Heroes? But I do, millions do.
Your logic is flawed.
Feel free to explain how you differentiate between the attending non-heroes who acted cowardly and the attending non-heroes who didn't?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Do you use the term "hero" to describe people like Mintz or Todd Beamer?
My "hang-up" is the inconsistency in labeling the actions of a hero as heroic and insisting that one must not label the actions of a coward as cowardly
And the way one deals with those normal reactions is the crux of the matter.
If one "displays ignoble fear or want of courage in the face of danger, pain, or difficulty" then they are cowardly by definition (see post 8)
If one musters "the ability to do something dangerous, or to face pain or opposition, without showing fear", then they are courageous, by definition. (see post 13)
You mean like attaching the label of hero to the likes of Mintz or Todd Beamer?
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ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
It's not my "logic", it's anna's (and others):
My logic is that if you apply anna's criteria which requires presence at a scene in order to comment on the actions of those at the scene, you must apply the same criteria equally to Mintz and the cowards in the classroom (or the soldiers at Normandy, many of whom acted heroically and many of whom acted cowardly)
Anna doesn't:
And I get it - you and chair and anna are twisting yourselves up in knots to try to justify calling Mintz a hero while disallowing an examination of those in the classroom, because of your emptional investment in the case.
Bill Maher learned the hard way about trying to use reason on the emotional when he stated the bald truth that the 911 attackers weren't "cowards" as many in the public domain had been calling them.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
that's covered in posts 8 and 13
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
sorry sport, it was anna's response in my thread
I even gave you the link so you could see for yourself
because emotion
not logic
and that's fine, if you and all the rest could just be honest about it
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Of course that's fine....and if you were the honest type you'd admit to the same thing. Calling some one a coward (or a hero) is a value judgement which takes an inherent degree of both reason and emotion. Each's view is personal and subjective....if you prefer to take a primary logical stance on the issue (which is wierd) and conclude the aformentioned victims as being cowardly, who should care enough to convince you otherwise? :idunno: just graciously accept and understand the opposite conclusion.... that most won't agree with you.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
no, it takes reason alone, and a willingness to look at the facts
those who acted cowardly in the classroom, those who cowered in fear, those who displayed ignoble fear or want of courage in the face of danger, pain, or difficulty are cowardly by definition (see post 8)
sans emotion
and avoiding the pitfalls of subjectivity
From post #8:
A reproachful designation for one who displays ignoble fear or want of courage in the face of danger, pain, or difficulty; an ignobly faint-hearted or pusillanimous person.
Right.
But you said "not all of them" (victims) were cowards so which ones demonstrated ignoble fears and which ones didn't....and how did you reach these conclusions. (I might agree with you in some of these cases if given the evidence.)
Right. And emotion in evaluating those facts.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Matthew Downing - coward
"A middle-aged woman behind her rose to shut the classroom door and was struck in the stomach by several bullets." - hero
"A friend of the injured woman dragged her into the room and began delivering CPR" - hero
The teacher, first one shot - neutral
Sarena Dawn Moore - neutral
The rest of the students, after the first murder, who displayed want of courage in the face of danger, pain, or difficulty - cowards, by definition
Can you tell me why that is important to you.....sans emotion?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
:darwinsm:
tell your neurologist or oncologist that before they make their diagnosis, you want them to evaluate the lab results by using emotion
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
because otherwise we have the responses seen in this thread
Me: The courageous actions of the heroes in this incident meet the definition of heroic, therefore those heroes in this incident who acted courageously are heroes
Emos: That's right!
Me: The cowardly actions of the cowards in the classroom meet the definition of cowardly, therefore, those cowards in the classroom who acted cowardly are cowards
Emos: You can't say that! It upsets me!
Me: The courageous actions of the heroes in this incident meet the definition of heroic, therefore those heroes in this incident who acted courageously are heroes
Emos: That's right!
Me: The cowardly actions of the cowards in the classroom meet the definition of cowardly, therefore, those cowards in the classroom who acted cowardly are cowards
Emos: You can't say that! It upsets me!
why?
Why? Because she shut a door or was shot or both?
Saved/attempted to save a life...agreed.
By what criteria?
By lack of action? Did they cry? Run? Pee themselves?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
See post 8 and 13 for definitions
Ok. A compassionate doctor is preferred to a dispassionate one. Bed-side manner I suppose. Waddya think?