Mid Acts Disponsationalism

[glorydaz]

I'd share the gospel with a repentant homosexual but they'd have to be repentant or else I'd be throwing pearls before swine, wasting both their time and mine. No one grasps for a life preserver if they don't believe their lives are in jeopardy.

I have no problem with people sharing the gospel with anyone they like. What I have a problem with is people who think that being nice is biblical. It isn't. Being honest is biblical. Telling the truth is biblical. Allowing the offense of the truth to work its ministry is biblical.

It looks to me like you're being misrepresented. I doubt it's intentional, but it's happening, nonetheless.

Millions will go to Hell because Christians are so nice that people never even get told that they are are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.
Resting in Him,
Clete

Anyway, I agree, and when that happens...this happens.

Romans 1:24
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;​

 

[patrick jane]

It looks to me like you're being misrepresented. I doubt it's intentional, but it's happening, nonetheless.

Anyway, I agree, and when that happens...this happens.

Romans 1:24
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;​

so, they had a chance, we were nice and we gave the CLUES and HINTS, they should have known. well, Gretchen, i read scripture that says that's what happens ! it's Romans 1:24 - Romans 1:26

Romans 1:27 and Romans 1:28 -

so, we tried, with our disapproving looks, cold shoulder, hints and clues. we acted like we cared and they chose their own reprobate mind !

yes Peggy, I know, it's sad -

 

[glorydaz]

What does the supposed Bible Believer respond to that with, out of his ignorance that “the strength of sin is the Law” - he climbs up on his soap box, pulls his hair, stomps his feet, and shouts at the top of his lungs "Legislate the sin of the lost - put the Ten Commandments back in the public schools" and other such notions The Book he claims to hold to, long ago proved "short of the glory of God."

I don't think that's what's happening at all.

I suppose some would take a child molester on their knee and tell him God loves him? What if he'd just raped their little boy or girl? What if he liked it too much to want to quit, but he sure would like to get forgiven? Better you tell him what he's done is vile and perverted, but God is able to change him so that he turns from his idols (sexual perversions, for instance) to serve the living God.

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;​

 

[glorydaz]

so, they had a chance, we were nice and we gave the CLUES and HINTS, they should have known. well, Gretchen, i read scripture that says that's what happens ! it's Romans 1:24 - Romans 1:26

Romans 1:27 and Romans 1:28 -

so, we tried, with our disapproving looks, cold shoulder, hints and clues. we acted like we cared and they chose their own reprobate mind !

yes Peggy, I know, it's sad -

Come on, Charlie. Surely you know how to make yourself understood.

 

[Danoh]

It looks to me like you're being misrepresented. I doubt it's intentional, but it's happening, nonetheless.



Anyway, I agree, and when that happens...this happens.

Romans 1:24
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;​

You have both missed the point of those passages - a reflection of man's utter hopelessness in himself through a portrait of man at his worst.

That, as a contrast to God at His best despite that - the gospel of Christ - the power of God unto salvation.

Glorydaz, you and Clete have taken the principle those examples are meant to point to, as being those examples themselves.

Why do you think he paints a picture of man, not at his best, but of man at his worst?

He is not talking of man at his worst. Rather, of man's total depravity to begin with.

The issue is not lying, or murder, or homosexuality, or what have you. Rather, that we are all in the same hot, boiling, scalding water.

The issue is "there but for the Grace of God in His kindness and His Grace towards us in His Son, go I..."

Thus, Paul's rejoicing when he began all that - Romans 1:

15. So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Study out what those eight words in bold are actually all about.

Fact is, that where one might feel compelled to take a baseball bat to these people, that is merely a reflection of our own depravity.

For we ourselves were once worthy of death and eternal damnation, for the mere fact that "all have sinned."

Where one might feel compelled to legislate what the Law of God proved man is incapable of both walking in and legislating upon others, that is merely a reflection of man's taking the Cross's having settled these issues, in one's own hands.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You're arguing, whether you intend to or not, for the decriminalization of everything!

How do you get from A to Z on what you just stated? What's your
reasoning that leads you to this conclusion? Does she at any point,
call for the decriminalization of everything? How do you KNOW with
any degree of certainty, that was her intent?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

That only the righteousness of God in His Grace without the Law unto all, and upon all them that believe in His Son’s fully satisfying sacrifice have hope for the very means of liberty from the bondage of sin, through the newness of life made possible by and in His Son.

You finally got something right so from these words we can understand that the righteousness of God apart from the law comes to all who believed, including the Jews who received the epistles of Peter.

They believed in the Lord Jesus' fully satisfying sacrifice so they too received the imputed righteousness of God which is apart from the law:

"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe" (Ro.3:21-22).​

You deny what Paul said there because you say that this righteousness which is apart from the law was only imputed to some who believe but not all who believe.

Who taught you that you can pick sand choose which verses you will believe and which ones you will not believe?

 

[Tambora]

I suppose some would take a child molester on their knee and tell him God loves him?

Sure. Right after he is behind bars or strapped to the electric chair.

 

[Danoh]

I don't think that's what's happening at all.

I suppose some would take a child molester on their knee and tell him God loves him? What if he'd just raped their little boy or girl? What if he liked it too much to want to quit, but he sure would like to get forgiven? Better you tell him what he's done is vile and perverted, but God is able to change him so that he turns from his idols (sexual perversions, for instance) to serve the living God.

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;​

Glorydaz, thank you for your thoughts on this.

To be honest, I'm not sure I would give such an individual the gospel. Honestly, I'd be thinking taking a baseball bat to his head.

But that is not what the Believer is called to think or do.

Like it or not, the world was greatly impressed with how the members of that assembly down South responded to the murder of their own right in front of them, during a Bible study.

Talk about a test case for all this. There it is.

That assembly's response to such a heinous act of betrayal of a trust is a response the Apostle Paul would greatly have admired.

1 Thessalonians 1:

2. We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;
3. Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in
our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
4. Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
5. For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
6. And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.
7. So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

Again, to be honest, said "more excellent way" might not be my own desired response in such a moment.

In this, I'll take your exchange on this for what I believe you have meant it to be; for what I have done with it; considered its food for thought.

Thank you for that.

In the spirit, of Ephesians 4:16, sis.

 

[Danoh]

Hey Tam

 

[Tambora]

To be honest, I'm not sure I would give such an individual the gospel. Honestly, I'd be thinking taking a baseball bat to his head.

Yay!

Hey Tam

Hi Danoh.

Bashing his head in with a baseball bat will not prevent his eternal salvation, or yours.
But it will certainly prevent the filthy pervert from molesting another child.

 

[Danoh]

Lol, if but for a moment, we've at least derailed Jerry's attempt to derail this thread down that dark, neurotic hallway of his pet peeves :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

 

[DAN P]

Lol, if but for a moment, we've at least derailed Jerry's attempt to derail this thread down that dark, neurotic hallway of his pet peeves :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Hi , Jerry's question is easy IF you could really defend Acts 9:6 !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Lol, if but for a moment, we've at least derailed Jerry's attempt to derail this thread down that dark, neurotic hallway of his pet peeves

How am I derailing this thread since I responded to what you said on this thread?:

That only the righteousness of God in His Grace without the Law unto all, and upon all them that believe in His Son’s fully satisfying sacrifice have hope for the very means of liberty from the bondage of sin, through the newness of life made possible by and in His Son.

You finally got something right so from these words we can understand that the righteousness of God apart from the law comes to all who believed, including the Jews who received the epistles of Peter.

They believed in the Lord Jesus' fully satisfying sacrifice so they too received the imputed righteousness of God which is apart from the law:

"But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe" (Ro.3:21-22).​

You deny what Paul said there because you say that this righteousness which is apart from the law was only imputed to some who believe but not all who believe.

Who taught you that you can pick sand choose which verses you will believe and which ones you will not believe?

Once again you are making excuses to account for the fact that you do not even attempt to defend your idea that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works.

It is you who is neurotic, not me, since you expect others to believe your ideas even though you refuse to address the Scriptures which contradict your ideas.

 

[glorydaz]

You have both missed the point of those passages - a reflection of man's utter hopelessness in himself through a portrait of man at his worst.

That, as a contrast to God at His best despite that - the gospel of Christ - the power of God unto salvation.

Glorydaz, you and Clete have taken the principle those examples are meant to point to, as being those examples themselves.

Why do you think he paints a picture of man, not at his best, but of man at his worst?

He is not talking of man at his worst. Rather, of man's total depravity to begin with.

I don't believe in "total depravity". Those verses are talking about those who have become totally depraved...those whom God has given over.

The issue is not lying, or murder, or homosexuality, or what have you. Rather, that we are all in the same hot, boiling, scalding water.

The issue is "there but for the Grace of God in His kindness and His Grace towards us in His Son, go I..."

Thus, Paul's rejoicing when he began all that - Romans 1:

15. So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Study out what those eight words in bold are actually all about.

I have done so.

Fact is, that where one might feel compelled to take a baseball bat to these people, that is merely a reflection of our own depravity.

For we ourselves were once worthy of death and eternal damnation, for the mere fact that "all have sinned."

Where one might feel compelled to legislate what the Law of God proved man is incapable of both walking in and legislating upon others, that is merely a reflection of man's taking the Cross's having settled these issues, in one's own hands.

Nonsense, that is a sign of righteous indignation. Upset the tables and drive the money lenders out of the temple.

Here's the way I see it. We're wandering in the desert and a bunch of us get snake bit. Some are too busy to realize they have been bitten. Hey, dude, you've been bitten by a poisonous snake. No, I haven't, I feel fine. Yes you have, dude. Look at the fang marks. Look at the swelling. Get over there and look at the serpent on the pole. Nah, you're crazy man, I feel fine. You dummy. You're swelling up and turning purple.

First a person has to recognize that they are sinners in need of a saviour. Until they see that they cannot believe in the Saviour. That's what the light of the glorious gospel reveals. If it doesn't reveal that, then the person is blinded by the god of this world.

 

[Danoh]

Like I said, Glorydaz, thanks for your input; it's been food for thought.

As I am sure these kinds of issues will continue to be.

Wait, I can't resist...

Acts 28:

3. And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.
4. And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
5. And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.
6. Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.

Or as they say on Leave It To Beaver - "just given you the business" lol

 

[glorydaz]

To be honest, I'm not sure I would give such an individual the gospel. Honestly, I'd be thinking taking a baseball bat to his head.

But that is not what the Believer is called to think or do.

Like it or not, the world was greatly impressed with how the members of that assembly down South responded to the murder of their own right in front of them, during a Bible study.

Talk about a test case for all this. There it is.

That assembly's response to such a heinous act of betrayal of a trust is a response the Apostle Paul would greatly have admired.

1 Thessalonians 1:

2. We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;
3. Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in
our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
4. Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
5. For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
6. And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.
7. So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

Again, to be honest, said "more excellent way" might not be my own desired response in such a moment.

In this, I'll take your exchange on this for what I believe you have meant it to be; for what I have done with it; considered its food for thought.

Thank you for that.

In the spirit, of Ephesians 4:16, sis.

I don't see a good smack down as taking a baseball bat to someone's head and forgiving a murderer isn't exactly the same as preaching the gospel to them, is it? I say we hate the sin but love the sinner. We can't preach the Gospel to them until they recognize their NEED for a Saviour. Sometimes tough love is the best love their is. I've seen it work over and over again...this is not a new idea. It really all depends on the person. We can quote Bible verses, but it's the one on one interaction that is required. How can they hear without a preacher? Sin....all men sin....they need to hear it and they need to acknowledge it.

 

[patrick jane]

Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
It looks to me like you're being misrepresented. I doubt it's intentional, but it's happening, nonetheless.



Quote:
Anyway, I agree, and when that happens...this happens.
Romans 1:24
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

ROLE PLAY - imaginary conversation between two mature women Gretchen and Peggy. (just as easily could be joe and mike) - they point out a lost sinner they hardly knows, but they have heard some things though - and she quotes Romans 1:24-28 as you did in a post - what did you mean ? surely you can be understood - so now it may make more sense, i'm bad about that -

Gretchen starts by sating -

so, they had a chance, we were nice and we gave the CLUES and HINTS, they should have known. well, Gretchen, i read scripture that says that's what happens ! it's Romans 1:24 - Romans 1:26

Romans 1:27 and Romans 1:28 -

so, we tried, with our disapproving looks, cold shoulder, hints and clues. we acted like we cared and they chose their own reprobate mind !

yes Peggy, I know, it's sad -

 

[glorydaz]

ROLE PLAY - imaginary conversation between two mature women Gretchen and Peggy. (just as easily could be joe and mike) - they point out a lost sinner they hardly knows, but they have heard some things though - and she quotes Romans 1:24-28 as you did in a post - what did you mean ? surely you can be understood - so now it may make more sense, i'm bad about that -

Gretchen starts by sating -

Yeah, that isn't what I'm talking about and I'm pretty sure it isn't what Clete is talking about, either.

 

[patrick jane]

Yeah, that isn't what I'm talking about and I'm pretty sure it isn't what Clete is talking about, either.

yeah, my sarcasm is so complex sometimes it sickens me. it's hard to set up a comedy skit if it's not in person. i know you guys weren't saying that, i was making fun of the FAKE, nice and friendly christians that pretend they care.

i guess what made me reply was your statement of - whan that happens, this happens. then you used scripture. i suppose i read it wrong, sorry -


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