ECT MADist thought for the day

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tetelestai

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I have already said that John did not fully fulfill the entire prophecy of what Elijah (my God is Jehovah) was to do before the coming of Christ.

Nope, you are wrong again.

John did fulfill the prophecy.

You have to argue that he didn't so your dispensationalism works out.

The complete fulfillment is still pending.

No it's not.

Nowhere in the Bible is there such a thing as a "partial" fulfillment of a prophecy.

Dispensationalists have made this "partial fulfillment" stuff up.

Even Christ, Himself, says there is a future coming of Elijah.

Wrong again.

Christ specifically said that Elijah had come.

Here is what He says right after the transfiguration where Elijah and Moses are seen with Christ:

Here is what Jesus said: "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already"

Here is what you say: " Elijah shall come again"

Why are you saying the exact opposite of what Jesus said?

Elijah already came (in the person of John the baptist) before the 1st coming of Christ, and Elijah shall come again before the 2nd coming of Christ.

Made up.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Elijah comes twice.
 

tetelestai

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Atheists use the same "argument" against hell, for eg.Liberals also use this "human reasoning" viewpoint.

Atheists don't take the words of Jesus to show that a prophecy has been fulfilled.

Jesus made it clear that the prophecy about living waters flowing out of Jerusalem was fulfilled by believers having the Holy Spirit indwelt in them.

You and the dispensatioanlists have no answer for John 7:38

Explain John 7:38?

Tell us what OT scripture Jesus was referring to in John 7:38?

You know you can't answer it, neither can Tambora
 

john w

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Good point.

It's mind boggling that dispensationalists think that another Elijah is going to come again.

Even though Jesus said "Elijah has come", they have to claim Elijah has to come again.

This is what happens when someone tries to make the Bible fit dispensationalism.

Word for word spam from the Preterist con artist, and humanist.

An atheist to Tet.'s great, great, great grandpappy: It's mind boggling that you Christians think that there was a literal Adam and Eve, a literal flood that destroyed most of the earth, a literal parting of the Red Sea, a literal Joshua, who, with the Israelites, marched around Jericho, and the walls fell down, a "god" literally becoming a man, literally being born via a virgin conception, literally walking on water, literally being crucified on a cross "made by human hands," a "man made" cross, literally rising from the dead, from a literal tomb, and literally ascending to heaven, and literally coming back to earth?





Most of Christianity(Tet. taught us that) thinks it is mind boggling that Preterists say...


"The kingdom where there is no more death, tears, and sadness exists right now.....Yes, we are living in the millennial reign right now."-Craigy Tet.

This is what happens when someone tries to make the Bible fit Preterism.


Tet: the habitual liar, and Preterist deceiver, of TOL-even he knows it.
 

andyc

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Wrong.
I have already said that John did not fully fulfill the entire prophecy of what Elijah (my God is Jehovah) was to do before the coming of Christ.
The complete fulfillment is still pending.


Even Christ, Himself, says there is a future coming of Elijah.
Here is what He says right after the transfiguration where Elijah and Moses are seen with Christ:

Matthew 17 KJV
(9) And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
(10) And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
(11) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
(12) But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
(13) Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Elijah already came (in the person of John the baptist) before the 1st coming of Christ, and Elijah shall come again before the 2nd coming of Christ.

Where is this fulfilment explained in scripture?

The parallels with Elijah and John are clearly seen with bringing backslidden Israel to God from false worship.
Elijah started the reformation in Israel during the time of Ahab and Jezebel, but it was Elisha and Jehu who saw it to completion.
It was John the baptist who started the reformation in Israel, but it is Christ and the church who bring it to completion.
Even if God intended more from John (which he didn't), it doesn't mean that he shall have to do it in the future. For example, Elijah was told to anoint Jehu as king of Israel, and Hazael as king over Syria. He did neither of these things, but it was clearly the Lords intention that he was supposed to.
God's original plan was for John to gloriously bring Israel to Jesus, but the hardened hearts of the Jewish leaders prevented this from happening, however, God foresaw the whole thing. Even Jesus said that he wanted to Gather Jerusalem as a hen gathers her chicks, but they were not willing. Now physical Israel is experiencing a hardness, and it is the church that must provoke her to jealousy.
 

Tambora

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Dispensationalists think that every prophecy from the OT to Israel is unconditional
Wrong.
That is another lie that you constantly assert, even though others have constantly pointed out your error.
 

tetelestai

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Folks did not realize that Christ would come twice either. And that it would be through both comings that all would be fulfilled.

Christ never said that He would come back to planet earth. He said He would come to take people back to where He had gone.

(John 14:3) And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am

Does the above sound like Christ comes back to planet earth?

Because you falsely believe that Jesus comes back to live on planet earth, you falsely believe that another Elijah has to come again first.
 

tetelestai

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An atheist to Tet.'s great, great, great grandpappy: It's mind boggling that you Christians think that there was a literal Adam and Eve, a literal flood that destroyed most of the earth, a literal parting of the Red Sea, a literal Joshua, who, with the Israelites, marched around Jericho, and the walls fell down, a "god" literally becoming a man, literally being born via a virgin conception, literally walking on water, literally being crucified on a cross "made by human hands," a "man made" cross, literally rising from the dead, from a literal tomb, and literally ascending to heaven, and literally coming back to earth?

You have no answer for John 7:38, so you make up false hypotheticals.

You know you have no answer for John 7:38, why not just admit it?
 

Tambora

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You have no answer for John 7:38,
The very next verse explains it.

John 7 KJV
(38) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(39) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
 

john w

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Nope, you are wrong again.

John did fulfill the prophecy.

You have to argue that he didn't so your dispensationalism works out.



No it's not.

Nowhere in the Bible is there such a thing as a "partial" fulfillment of a prophecy.

Dispensationalists have made this "partial fulfillment" stuff up.



Wrong again.

Christ specifically said that Elijah had come.



Here is what Jesus said: "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already"

Here is what you say: " Elijah shall come again"

Why are you saying the exact opposite of what Jesus said?



Made up.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Elijah comes twice.


"No it's not.Nowhere in the Bible is there such a thing as a "partial" fulfillment of a prophecy.Dispensationalists have made this "partial fulfillment" stuff up."-Preterist con man above

You made that up, punk.


You said the same thing in the Hilston" debate,....




"Partial fulfillment"?How can a prophecy be "partially fulfilled"?-Tet.

He addressed it...(as have others)..


"Let’s say we have a prophecy. It contains parts A, B and C. Part A is fulfilled, but parts B and C are not, and remain to be fulfilled at some later time."-Hilston


...and yet you keep spamming this invention of Preterism, and punted answering it.


Why did you "scramble like a cockroach" in that debate, Craigie, in which he picked you apart? His last response was over 4 months ago, and you, at the end of May, said you would respond? What's the problem, chump? Waiting for most to forget that you were ever involved in the debate? Or waiting such a long time, hoping that, 4/5 months later, since you punted, Hilston will not respond, so you can declare "victory?"
 

andyc

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Why did you "scramble like a cockroach" in that debate, Craigie, in which he picked you apart? His last response was over 4 months ago, and you, at the end of May, said you would respond? What's the problem, chump? Waiting for most to forget that you were ever involved in the debate? Or waiting such a long time, hoping that, 4/5 months later, since you punted, Hilston will not respond, so you can declare "victory?"

Hilston's argument croaked bigtime when he tried to explain that the kingdom slaves were anointed by an angelic power rather than the Holy Spirit. This is one of the most ridiculous (not to mention blasphemous) things I've ever seen on TOL, and that's saying a lot after all the garbage you spew out here.
 

Tambora

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If so, then show us a conditional prophecy from the OT that will never be fulfilled?

Is the new covenant conditional or unconditional?

Jeremiah 31 KJV
(31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
(32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
(33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
(35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
(36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
(37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
(38) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
(39) And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
(40) And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.
 

Lighthouse

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So the land that Abraham looked at will be dissolved.
So?

BTW
When did you realize how rotten you were?
You're making it seem as if you never came to the realization that you needed a savior.
Is this what you were actually asking? You had not made this clear. If I had never realized my need for a Savior I wouldn't be a Christian, moron.

And I am calling you a moron because of your stupidity in not realizing the obviousness of this simple concept; I am a Christian because I realized my need for a Savior, and that I, myself, am rotten to the core.

What would be the point of removing the earth and then reinstalling it? LOL
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.
-Revelation 21:1

sorry to tell you this, but personal accountability of sin is not a requirement in the gospel of salvation...

However you'd have to be a moron to think that us MADists or any Christian is not aware of their sin, and how deadly it actually is.

Otherwise, none of us would be here.
:thumb:

How do you understand that you need a savior if you have no sense of guilt about the sins that are condemning you.

This just doesn't make sense.

I agree that sincere remorse (conviction) cannot be manufactured, but without it there will be nothing to cause a person to reach out to the savior.
The extent of your ignorance regarding the capacity of the human mind for understanding is great.

:up:

Exactly! Only the initial giving of the land was unconditional. Remaining in the land was contingent upon their obedience. If it was unconditional, then how could God have dispossessed them and sacttered them at times?
tetelestai is a liar.

An interesting point surfaced while replying to Tambora.

Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.


Paul criticizes the Jews here because they did not seek the righteousness that is acceptable by the law through faith. Yet the madists claim that the Jews were never supposed to, because the righteousness that is of faith is not supposed to be for them until after the resurrection.

Romans 11:5-7
5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. 7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.


Israel has not obtain the righteousness it was seeking because they didn't seek it by faith. However, Paul explains that they could have found it. This would negate the two classes that the mads believe existed at the time.

Romans 3:30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
You have absolutely no idea what MAD is. Posts like this are clear evidence you don't know squat.

Wrong.
That is another lie that you constantly assert, even though others have constantly pointed out your error.
Exactly.
 

tetelestai

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The very next verse explains it.

John 7 KJV
(38) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(39) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

The question was, what prophecy from the OT did John 7:38 fulfill.

Explain how the prophecy was fulfilled?
 

john w

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Christ never said that He would come back to planet earth. He said He would come to take people back to where He had gone.

(John 14:3) And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am

Does the above sound like Christ comes back to planet earth?

Because you falsely believe that Jesus comes back to live on planet earth, you falsely believe that another Elijah has to come again first.

"Christ never said that He would come back to planet earth. He said He would come to take people back to where He had gone.Does the above sound like Christ comes back to planet earth?"-Tet.

You deceiving punk-spamming that on every thread, even though myself, and others, picked apart that Preterist sham, and con game of yours.

John 14 KJV

1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

mansions-the Temple at Jerusalem, with its many courts/chambers...

Preterists: symbolic...

It appears as if there are those who believe that the OT saints, and NT saints that were promised an earthly kingdom, will not get it after all.

That they will be taken to heaven for eternity. That is a scam view..

According to Jeremiah 23:5 KJV "Behold the days come lsaith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and execute judgment in the earth.

The Lord Jesus Christ taught to pray: "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven" Matt. 6:10 KJV

The kingdom "of heaven" is referring to the kingdom that is coming out of heaven, its origin, source of authority, from "the heavenlies," and will be established here upon the earth at the 2nd coming. "the second time," of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Many get their erroneous view from not being able to understand John 14:1-3 KJV.

John 14 KJV

1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3. And if I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, ye will be also."


Come again"-not just "come"-returning to a place from which He had been

The Lord Jesus Christ asserts a few chapters later:

"I pray not that Thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil" John 17:15) KJV

If the Lord from heaven was speaking about taking the apostles out of the world with the Rapture in John 14 KJV, why would He pray and ask God the Father not to take them out of the world in John 17?

But as for John 14:3 KJV, it is often falsely assumed that the Lord Jesus Christ is saying that "heaven" was unprepared to receive the apostles, and so He would have to go to heaven to prepare a place for them. However, what would that mean? Was heaven unprepared to receive them? Did the Lord need to "clean up"a bit the place?

No, the Lord Jesus Christ was saying that His "going," I.e., His death, would be the thing that would prepare a place in heaven for them.

However, this does not mean that the Lord Jesus Christ was speaking of the Rapture here.

Sometimes believers are confused about I Peter 1:4 KJV, where the Lord Jesus Christ talks about Israel's inheritance which was "reserved in heaven for you." But we know that Israel's hope is the kingdom of heaven on earth, per 2 Peter 1:11 KJV. What is "Pete" talking about?

At the time Peter wrote those words, you must ask yourself-where the h_ was the kingdom? While it would eventually be on earth, it was at that time in the third heaven. Remember, it was "the kingdom of heaven." When the Lord Jesus Christ died, He went to heaven to get the kingdom for Israel, and to bring it back to the earth.

We know this from the parable in Luke 19. The Lord Jesus Christ told this parable because they thought the kingdom was about to appear (v.11). He told the parable to let them know that He had to die before the kingdom could appear.

The "certain nobleman" in Verse 12 is the Lord Jesus Christ. The "far country" He goes to is heaven, the "third heaven." He is speaking about dying and going to heaven.

Notice that He says that the purpose of His death is "to receive for Himself a kingdom, and to return." As far as Israel is concerned, that was the purpose of the Lord's death. He had to die to go get the kingdom, and return with it to earth.

Before He left earth, He charged His disciples to maintain His things while He was gone, verse 13. These are the apostles, to whom He gave "The Great Commission," and other numerous commands.

"But His citizens hated Him, and sent a message after Him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us"-verse 14.

The "citizens" here is apostate Israel. How did they sent a message after the Lord after He died? How do you send a message to someone in heaven? Well, it is a bit gruesome, but they did it by stoning Stephen. When they stoned Stephen, Acts 7, they sent a message, in no uncertain terms, to God the Father, that they did not want the Lord Jesus Christ to reign over them.

"And it came to pass, that when He was returned, having received the kingdom, then He commanded these servants to be called unto Him..."

Here we jump to the future, the 2nd coming of the Lord Jesus Christ-"the second time." When the Lord returns at the second coming, He will bring with Him the kingdom of heaven. He will then command "these servants to be called unto Him..." This is the "receive you unto Myself" that you are reading about in John 14:3 KJV.

It wouldn't make much sense to make John 14:3 to speak of the Rapture, though, for the parable goes on to talk about how the Lord is going to reward His servants by giving them command over the different "cities" of earth-John 19:17,19 KJV. This is Israel's hope. The 12 apostles will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel, per Matthew 19:28 KJV, and faithful Jews under them will also be helping them rule. All in resurrected, BORN AGAIN, bodies.


Preterists- sitting on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel, in "the third heaven?" Deception. On earth.




However, it is the teaching of the apostle Paul that we will "judge angels," per 1 Cor.6:3 KJV). That is why Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJV says that we will be "raptured" to heaven, to reign in the heavenlies. Also, according to 2 Cor. 5:1 KJV, "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens." Further, Philippians 5:20 KJV, "For our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven; from whence also we look forward for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ." It is the church, which is his body, of this dispensation of the grace of God, that will inherit "the heavenlies."

Yes, the kingdom that is being prepared in heaven, which will be established in the earth at Christ's second advent, is for the Bride of Christ (Israel). The church, the body of Christ is not the Bride of Christ. Christ is the head of His Church, the body of Christ.

The church, the Body of Christ, will be raptured to heaven prior to the resumption of the Tribulation. Those deceased member of the church, the body of Christ, will be resurrected along with the living "body Saints" prior to the Tribulation. Those saints that were promised a place in the earthly kingdom will be resurrected at Christ's second coming. This is the first resurrection of prophecy. (The church, the body of Christ, cannot be found in prophecy.

________________________________________________

“And that is what happened. The Lord came in a way that everyone could see Him. However, He never touched planet earth, and when this event was over, He then sat on the throne in Heaven NOT on planet earth.”-Tet.


Made up. Deception.


Show us this "everyone," Preterist deceiver, as I have asked over and over.


He won't.
 
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