ECT MAD interp flaw

[Danoh]

I was not "merely asserting", I was pointing out that the clear construction of "the gospel OF" has a definite meaning.

Please show otherwise instead of just throwing out your opinions about my understanding of God's Word.

They are your opinions.

Sorry, but as Interplanner has continued to fail to see, Mid-Acts is not based on the mere "construction of" one "of" or another, anymore than any other Mid-Acts distinctive is.

If I am supposed to play dumb in my replies to you just so that you are not offended due to your ever rigid "my way or the highway" approach, then you might as well not ask my input.

Fact is, I am entitled to my read on a thing, including the obvious; that yours is your read on a thing as much as mine is my read on it.

Get that out of the way, and perhaps then, we can both move forward.

We are bound to see some things differently.

 

[Right Divider]

They are your opinions.

Sorry, but as Interplanner has continued to fail to see, Mid-Acts is not based on the mere "construction of" one "of" or another, anymore than any other Mid-Acts distinctive is.

If I am supposed to play dumb in my replies to you just so that you are not offended due to your ever rigid "my way or the highway" approach, then you might as well not ask my input.

Fact is, I am entitled to my read on a thing, including the obvious; that yours is your read on a thing as much as mine is my read on it.

Get that out of the way, and perhaps then, we can both move forward.

We are bound to see some things differently.

What does it MEAN when it says "the gospel OF something"?

So far you're giving totally ambiguous and vague "it does mean what you think that it means" types of responses.

I contend that OF something actually means OF something. Why don't you actually explain what is wrong with that?

 

[Danoh]

Call the following my opion if you like. I have no chip on my shoulder as to that kind of an opinion by another.

As Romans opens, Paul is relating that he has been been separated unto good news from God concerning His Son.

What Son?

The same One Who was prophesied; He Who's resurrection from the dead proved He was the Christ.

Having established that his is that same Jesus; he then reiterates that he has received a grace from this same Jesus.

An aspect of God's good news concerning His Son that has been committed unto Paul for him to make known among the nations.

In other words, within God's good news concerning His Son, is an aspect committed unto Paul.

The same Christ who was prophesied - Who's resurrection proved He was that prophesied Christ, at the same time, an aspect of which had not been prophesied.

One...Two Fold...Purpose in HIM: Prophecy and Mystery.

One aspect had been Prophesied since the world began.

Another aspect had been kept secret since before the world began.

It is no accident that in his writings Paul often contrasts between the two.

Just as it is no accident that the typical Mid-Acts teaching does.

Anyway, the gospel of God, is good news from God concerning, or about His Son, thus; the gospel of, or about Christ.

One aspect of God's good news concerning His Prophesied Son was prophesied since the world began...

Another aspect of God's good news concerning His Prophesied Son, was not prophesied - it was Kept Secret since before the world began.

 

[heir]

There were two, it cannot be otherwise.

They have their same one church repenting and being baptized for the remission of sins looking forward to the blotting out of sins while at the same time has been forgiven all trespasses having now received the atonement (not to mention so many other differences). :dizzy:

 

[heir]

It's pretty clear to me that when God labels something "the gospel OF" that He's making SOME sort of a distinction in that specific case.

Amen! Details, people!

 

[Right Divider]

Call the following my opion if you like. I have no chip on my shoulder as to that kind of an opinion by another.

As Romans opens, Paul is relating that he has been been separated unto good news from God concerning His Son.

What Son?

The same One Who was prophesied; He Who's resurrection from the dead proved He was the Christ.

Having established that his is that same Jesus; he then reiterates that he has received a grace from this same Jesus.

An aspect of God's good news concerning His Son that has been committed unto Paul for him to make known among the nations.

In other words, within God's good news concerning His Son, is an aspect committed unto Paul.

The same Christ who was prophesied - Who's resurrection proved He was that prophesied Christ, at the same time, an aspect of which had not been prophesied.

One...Two Fold...Purpose in HIM: Prophecy and Mystery.

One aspect had been Prophesied since the world began.

Another aspect had been kept secret since before the world began.

It is no accident that in his writings Paul often contrasts between the two.

Just as it is no accident that the typical Mid-Acts teaching does.

Anyway, the gospel of God, is good news from God concerning, or about His Son, thus; the gospel of, or about Christ.

One aspect of God's good news concerning His Prophesied Son was prophesied since the world began...

Another aspect of God's good news concerning His Prophesied Son, was not prophesied - it was Kept Secret since before the world began.

So it appears that you are confusing the two fold aspect of Gods plans for the heaven and the earth with these various "the gospel OF" statements. You are forcing everything into one, when it's not one.

When you mix apples and oranges like that, you get fruit salad.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

They have their same one church repenting and being baptized for the remission of sins looking forward to the blotting out of sins while at the same time has been forgiven all trespasses having now received the atonement (not to mention so many other differences). :dizzy:

Yes. I could not sleep at night if I believed such, knowing the two cannot be the same.

 

[heir]

Call the following my opion if you like. I have no chip on my shoulder as to that kind of an opinion by another.

As Romans opens, Paul is relating that he has been been separated unto good news from God concerning His Son.

What Son?

The same One Who was prophesied; He Who's resurrection from the dead proved He was the Christ.

Yes, Paul's first order of business was to preach in the synagogue, the WHO of Jesus Christ (Acts 9:20-22 KJV, Galatians 1:23 KJV) and declared to be the Son of God with power by God raising Him up . It's called the gospel of God (Romans 1:1-4 KJV, Romans 15:16 KJV)! Who the Lord is and that God raised Him from the dead is not WHY Christ died on the cross! Where is the gospel of Christ that establishes?

 

[Danoh]

So it appears that you are confusing the two fold aspect of Gods plans for the heaven and the earth with these various "the gospel OF" statements. You are forcing everything into one, when it's not one.

When you mix apples and oranges like that, you get fruit salad.

It does APPEAR that way, bro.

It is not.

Rather...God's TWO-Fold Purpose IN His PROPHESIED Son.

That aspect concerning His PROPHESIED Son that WAS Prophesied...

And that aspect concerning His PROPHESIED Son that was NOT Prophesied...

Another point of Paul's was that he was NOT preaching another Jesus, rather; an UNProphesied aspect of the same Christ Who WAS Propheised.

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

The Christ Who WAS Prophesied...

BUT according to MY UNProphesied gospel...

 

[Right Divider]

It does APPEAR that way, bro.

It is not.

Rather...God's TWO-Fold Purpose IN His PROPHESIED Son.

That aspect concerning His PROPHESIED Son that WAS Prophesied...

And that aspect concerning His PROPHESIED Son that was NOT Prophesied...

Another point of Paul's was that he was NOT preaching another Jesus, rather; an UNProphesied aspect of the same Christ Who WAS Propheised.

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

The Christ Who WAS Prophesied...

BUT according to MY UNProphesied gospel...

Once again, you are FORCING all of the multiple "the gospel OF"'s down into your TWO "aspects".

I would agree completely that there TWO programs that God has for the heaven and the earth, but that does NOT mean that there are TWO gospels. There are many gospels in the Bible. God labels them specifically. The fact that these multiple gospels fit within the larger picture of what God is doing does NOT make them fewer in number.

 

[Interplanner]

Boys,
the easiest dismissal of the two gospels from the OT is that no one back then could separate the kingdom from the suffering BUT THEY KNEW THAT WHAT WAS COMING WAS BOTH SUFFERING AND KINGDOM AT THE SAME TIME. This is not the mystery then to Judaism (not 'since the world began'); the mystery is how these are both true in the Gospel and the resurrection which is the fulfillment of everything promised.

 

[Interplanner]

Once again, you are FORCING all of the multiple "the gospel OF"'s down into your TWO "aspects".

I would agree completely that there TWO programs that God has for the heaven and the earth, but that does NOT mean that there are TWO gospels. There are many gospels in the Bible. God labels them specifically. The fact that these multiple gospels fit within the larger picture of what God is doing does NOT make them fewer in number.

There are not multiple gospels in the eschatological picture of the OT. The return from captivity, was 'a good news.' But that was never confused with the end of time or ages when the Messiah would appear. Not when you have Dan 9 and Is 53 to anchor things.

 

[Interplanner]

It does APPEAR that way, bro.

It is not.

Rather...God's TWO-Fold Purpose IN His PROPHESIED Son.

That aspect concerning His PROPHESIED Son that WAS Prophesied...

And that aspect concerning His PROPHESIED Son that was NOT Prophesied...

Another point of Paul's was that he was NOT preaching another Jesus, rather; an UNProphesied aspect of the same Christ Who WAS Propheised.

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

The Christ Who WAS Prophesied...

BUT according to MY UNProphesied gospel...

lol, pretty silly, but go ahead: what was UNprophesied? Was the UN already in view back then, hmmm? Suffering and glory were both prophesied but confusing even to the prophets because the fulfillment was not going to be exactly like the prophecy.

 

[Interplanner]

So it appears that you are confusing the two fold aspect of Gods plans for the heaven and the earth with these various "the gospel OF" statements. You are forcing everything into one, when it's not one.

When you mix apples and oranges like that, you get fruit salad.

Danoh wrote:
The same Christ who was prophesied - Who's resurrection proved He was that prophesied Christ, at the same time, an aspect of which had not been prophesied.

Where do you get that idea? Ps 2 was commonly quoted by the apostles. The prophecy was there but the method of realization was confusing until Christ came. If you saw him kata sarka you would conclude one thing; if you saw him according to what was true in Christ would conclude what Christ said.

 

[heir]

lol, pretty silly, but go ahead: what was UNprophesied?

Here's an example of something that wasn't prophesied in the OT! How about our very salvation (Ephesians 3:6 KJV)?! Do the terms "mystery", "in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men", "unsearchable" and "hid in God" mean anything to you?!

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

 

[Danoh]

Here's an example of something that wasn't prophesied in the OT! How about our very salvation (Ephesians 3:6 KJV)?! Do the terms "mystery", "in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men", "unsearchable" and "hid in God" mean anything to you?!

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Ephesians 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Ephesians 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

I'm seriously considering no longer responding to him; he goes on and on against a view he has often said he has no interest in exploring.

That smacks of an outright troll.

One would think he would just post on his views; not on a view he is not only clearly clueless about; but has no interest in; other than in deriding it.

Yep, Interplanner is the classic troll.

Though his posts to me and RD were hilarious; so I guess he is at least good for a laugh :chuckle:

 

[musterion]

Boys,
the easiest dismissal of the two gospels from the OT is that no one back then could separate the kingdom from the suffering BUT THEY KNEW THAT WHAT WAS COMING WAS BOTH SUFFERING AND KINGDOM AT THE SAME TIME. This is not the mystery then to Judaism (not 'since the world began'); the mystery is how these are both true in the Gospel and the resurrection which is the fulfillment of everything promised.

Please give us an example of someone back in the Old Testament being completely forgiven and justified by God by believing the exact same good news that Paul defined as the saving Gospel.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

The nuts and bolts of 1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV) are all over prophecy. But the fact that they would be put into a unit and presented as a gospel was the mystery of Christ in the form of the gospel of Christ.

To the Jew first, and also to the Greek, could also be proven by looking at prophecy.

BUT, the blessing extended also to the alien Gentile could not be searched out in prophecy. It was hid in God. This is the mystery of the gospel, in the form of the gospel of the grace of God.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The nuts and bolts of 1 Cor 15:1-4 (KJV) are all over prophecy. But the fact that they would be put into a unit and presented as a gospel was the mystery of Christ in the form of the gospel of Christ.

To the Jew first, and also to the Greek, could also be proven by looking at prophecy.

BUT, the blessing extended also to the alien Gentile could not be searched out in prophecy. It was hid in God. This is the mystery of the gospel, in the form of the gospel of the grace of God.

Good post STP

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Please give us an example of someone back in the Old Testament being completely forgiven and justified by God by believing the exact same good news that Paul defined as the saving Gospel.

Good point M