ECT MAD interp flaw

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Interplanner

Well-known member
heir said:
Yes, I can and do (Romans 10:17 KJV) and so can you. It is written! It is you refusing to believe it that is the problem.
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If you think it says something else and believe that, what good is it 'to believe'? You have to know what it means first.

Take 'the life I now live, I live by the faith of the son of God.' It matters enormously whether 'faith' there means Paul's as a Christian or Christ's action for us. The grammatical research will show that it is the latter. Paul the former Judaizer is saying the most subversive thing that could ever be said about his former life in Judaism.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
It's back to the "Drawing board" for you, Inter. There will be no lunch break until you get it right. So, prepare to lose a lot of weight.
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You and Danoh share the problem of avoiding addressing specifics because it is far more convenient and pleasurable to just dismiss.

If you were to be taken seriously, you would have put forth your grammatical treatment of Eph 3:5.

The Reformation was always grounded in the historical-grammatical meaning.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Sorry to shift the topic briefly, but since there are people who think it is silly to refer to Josephus, I noticed this item in the thread on the Wailing Wall under Religion:

"This bit of archaeological information illustrates the fact that the construction of the Temple Mount walls and Robinson’s Arch was an enormous project that lasted decades and was not completed during Herod’s lifetime," said the IAA, adding that the find confirms descriptions by the Jewish historian Josephus, which state that it was only during the reign of King Agrippa II (Herod’s great-grandson) that the work was finished."


So again there is the need to know those things about Josephus that can help us understand historical NT parts.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Interplanner said:
You and Danoh share the problem of avoiding addressing specifics because it is far more convenient and pleasurable to just dismiss.

If you were to be taken seriously, you would have put forth your grammatical treatment of Eph 3:5.

The Reformation was always grounded in the historical-grammatical meaning.
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The Holy Bible is a Spiritual Book. The Holy Spirit gives the knowledge and wisdom to understand and discern the truths that are written. People like yourself place too much credit in the understanding of men, grammar, etc. Each time before I open the Bible I pray that God will give me the wisdom and knowledge to understand what I'm about to read. I don't place my faith in commentaries and religious authors.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Inter, you'd be doing yourself a favor by praying a similar prayer before reading/studying the Bible. Also, it would be a good idea for you to learn how to "Rightly Divide" the written word of God.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Interplanner said:
Not about the arm of the Lord bringing his salvation and righteousness. It all reduces down to the Christ crucified by the end of Isaiah, or THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS of Jer 23-33. This is why Rom 3:21-31 is the crescendo of the NT. "Now the righteousness of God is revealed..."
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What a CLASSIC job of scripture twisting!!!!!

You left OUT words, which is a NO-NO as far as God and His WORD is concerned.
Rom 3:21 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; ​

Only a deceiver would quote that verse but LEAVE OUT that important piece of information.

Interplanner said:
This is such a major theme in Isaiah that it is fair to say it eclipses everything else. We then are forced to ask, so how does the NT interp the Isaian 'righteousness of God'? The answer is the Gospel. It is never another episode of things for Israel, and when Christ comes he says that all the written wrath that needed to be delivered would fall in the DofJ, Lk 19 and 21.
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So you think that Isaiah preached "God's righteousness WITHOUT THE LAW"?

Interplanner said:
I write this so you know it's not just "me." The question is how did Paul refer to the arrival of the righteousness of God, because there is no question that he did. He used OT passages to underwrite it.
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What a little deceiver you are!
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
What a CLASSIC job of scripture twisting!!!!!

You left OUT words, which is a NO-NO as far as God and His WORD is concerned.
Rom 3:21 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:21) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; ​

Only a deceiver would quote that verse but LEAVE OUT that important piece of information.


So you think that Isaiah preached "God's righteousness WITHOUT THE LAW"?


What a little deceiver you are!
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Of course it is apart from (humans doing) the Law. But it was testified to--announced--in the Law, as we know from his exegesis of such passages in Rom 10 ('who will ascend up?' etc). The Law and the Prophets testify that it was there and it was coming. That is the plain meaning of Rom 3:21, 22. I think there are some 70 quotes of OT passages in Romans alone, on this. There's some homework for you theoreticians to work on.

Watch out; you're sounding a lot like Ben Masada, you know. That Paul is a total anomaly, a misfit, an obtuse inventor and abuser of the OT's meaning.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Wonder what IP makes of this.

Peter’s message and Paul’s message are mutually exclusive:

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God HATH SPOKEN by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was KEPT SECRET since the world began,

Peter testifies about grace which will be delivered to him and believing Israel when the Lord Jesus returns:

1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Paul testifies about a present possession of grace on the merits of the gospel of the grace of God:

Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Peter, after those three years with the Lord Jesus, did not [fully] understand Paul’s message:

II Peter 3:15-16 … even as our beloved brother Paul… speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,

And just as you should dance with the one that invited you to the prom:

1 Corinthians 7:20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

The fact is that Israel has yet to enjoy that which we tend to take for granted: [believers] have been sealed and they have not.
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Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Interplanner said:
Of course it is apart from (humans doing) the Law. But it was testified to--announced--in the Law, as we know from his exegesis of such passages in Rom 10 ('who will ascend up?' etc). The Law and the Prophets testify that it was there and it was coming. That is the plain meaning of Rom 3:21, 22. I think there are some 70 quotes of OT passages in Romans alone, on this. There's some homework for you theoreticians to work on.

Watch out; you're sounding a lot like Ben Masada, you know. That Paul is a total anomaly, a misfit, an obtuse inventor and abuser of the OT's meaning.
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I really am amazed how liars, like yourself, try to just ignore being called out for your deception and get right back to your "story".

Are we just support to now IGNORE that GROSS "misquote" of God's Word and just let you slide?

You are a scripture perverter and we are not going to just let it slide until you acknowledge your error and start being honest about what the scripture ACTUALLY says.

There's your homework, due yesterday!
 
D

Danoh

New member
IP, what Paul is asserting in Romans 3 is that the righteousness of God the Law and the Prophets had witnessed man could not but fail to measure up to in his own strength, had been met in Christ and was now being testified as such - as God's standard of righteousness THIS SIDE OF the Cross and that Paul was now testifying of...

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Danoh said:
IP, what Paul is asserting in Romans 3 is that the righteousness of God the Law and the Prophets had witnessed man could not but fail to measure up to in his own strength, had been met in Christ and was now being testified as such - as God's standard of righteousness THIS SIDE OF the Cross and that Paul was now testifying of...

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
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Danoh wrote:
had witnessed man could not but fail to measure up to in his own strength,


Obiously that's not what testifying to the righteousness of God is about. That's what the righteousness of man is about! The Law and Prophets are talking about how it must be infinite, and God alone, his own right hand, must provide it. His Servant must provide, the LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. His Servant does provide it: "by his experience, My Servant will justify many."

Go off the forum and read Isaiah 10x. That will cure my headache.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
musterion said:
He's been here longer than you and has much better rep. Why don't YOU go for a walk.
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I have been on TOL longer than Danoh, so I think he should take a walk . . . and read Isaiah ten times through, just as IP suggests.
 
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Danoh

New member
Nang said:
I have been on TOL longer than Danoh, so I think he should take a walk . . . and read Isaiah ten times through, just as IP suggests.
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Fortunately, I could care less about reps, length of time in this or that.

As for Isaiah; it is one of my favorite books.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
musterion said:
Don't presume to teach men. You're unfit.

[/COLOR]
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I am fit to testify of the Savior who saved me, by His power and grace.

You cannot deny me that . . .

And if my scriptural witness to His saving Gospel, interferes with your false teaching, so be it.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Nang said:
And if my scriptural witness to His saving Gospel, interferes with your false teaching, so be it.
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Why you dogging me over it?

You've already said I'm a reprobate, so I can't help it. Your "god" made me this way...just a damned sinner in the hands of your angry "god." Quit questioning his sovereign decree for me.
 
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