ECT MAD implies both Jesus and Paul are liars.

[JudgeRightly]

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” - Matthew 15:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:24&version=NKJV

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” - Matthew 15:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:24&version=NKJV

*checks the four gospels for any mention of "body," "of," "Christ," does not find any*

Hmmm

*checks the Pauline epistles for "body," "of," "Christ," finds many instances*

Ah.

You have yet to present a problem text for "MAD," dodge.

Is that all Jesus said ?

He also said, "For God so loved the world that whosoever believe" etc.

And immediately prior to that, Jesus said that in order to be saved you must be baptised.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” - John 3:5-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John3:5-8&version=NKJV

Baptism is part of the law. It is not required in the gospel of grace.

He also said, "come unto me you that are heaven" laden etc.

He also said," I am the light of the world : etc.

He also said," I am the door etc."

He also said, " I am the true vine etc".

If just the above sayings of Jesus were for Israel then what would you base YOUR salvation on now?

Well, since I'm not a Jew living in Jesus' time, but a Gentile living after the Bible was written, I would have to say that my salvation is based on Ephesians 2:8-9.

You do understand that Paul only repeated what Jesus taught Him right ?

Yes, but what Jesus taught Paul is not what was taught in the four gospels.

For example:

Jesus said: "Forgive so that God will forgive you."
Paul said: "Forgive because God has forgiven you."

See the difference?

Obviously not ! Do you ignore everything Jesus taught because only several verses says "to Israel " ?

I don't ignore it, I recognize that when a command is given to a soldier to dig a trench, then later a command is given to advance from the trench, that the soldier should move forward from the trench, and not keep digging.

Tell me, dodge, does God, throughout the Bible, change the rules for His people?

 

[dodge]

JudgeRightly;5037865]Again, what happened immediately prior to Acts 9?

What happened on the cross when Jesus said it is finished ?

Who did Saul kill?

Jesus said Saul was persecuting Him when Saul had those folks killed ! Why do you deny what Jesus said ?

Was he Jew or Gentile?

CHRISTIAN and "in Christ".

Jew, or Gentile, dodge? Which was he?

CHRISTIAN and " in Christ".

The Bible does not say Saul was persecuting/killing "Christians." It says he was persecuting/killing Jews who believed in their Messiah.

Sure it does as in Jesus saying," Saul why do you persecute me "

 

[dodge]

JudgeRightly;5037867]Your proof text is not a problem text for our position. What don't you get about that?

It is what scripture says and you say it isn't ! I will stay with scripture.

If anything, it's a proof text for our side, as you seem to be presenting it as a problem for yours.

It says what it says and you say it does not say what it is. I will stay with scripture.

 

[dodge]

JudgeRightly;5037869]I think you need a new definition of "cult."

ALL cults marginalize Jesus and MAD does exactly that !

See here.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

ALL cults marginalize Jesus and MAD does exactly that !

:chuckle:

On the contrary

 

[glorydaz]

Again "In Christ" means in the B.O.C..

And do you think these are in the B.O.C.?

John 15:4-5 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.​

 

[dodge]

JudgeRightly;5037964]And immediately prior to that, Jesus said that in order to be saved you must be baptised.

I tried to answer all your post I may have missed a couple, sorry.

Jumping around way to much for one setting.

I have not seen you answer where Jesus told Saul "why are you persecuting me " when Saul was destroying the early church ?

Jesus asked Saul," why are you persecuting me" to which Saul replied who are you Lord "? Jesus answered Saul "I am Jesus who you are persecuting".

So if Saul was persecuting Jesus as he was persecuting the early church how do you arrive at they were Jews as opposed to Christians in the B.O.C. ? I believe Jesus said Saul was persecuting Him was and is your answer if you can SEE IT.

 

[JudgeRightly]

As Galatians also teaches that Paul persecuted the faith he now preaches.

Who was Paul persecuting ? Answer: Christians

No. He was persecuting Jews. Was Paul persecuting Gentiles as well?

Now if Paul was persecuting Christians which he was he then After he was saved began to preach their message of faith. Faith in who ? Answer: Faith in Jesus.

Jesus went on to ask Saul why are you persecuting me and Saul asked who are you Lord to which Jesus answered " I am Jesus who you are persecuting". We know Saul persecuted Christians and yet Jesus said Saul was persecuting Him why ? Answer: because as Saul persecuted Christians he was persecuting Jesus because the ones Saul persecuted were in the B.O.C. , and all before Saul ever got saved.

You're problem is that you're confusing "in Christ" with "the body of Christ."

Thanks

You're welcome.

Wrong. Jesus told Saul he was persecuting him because the ones Saul persecuted were in the B.O.C.

Again, confusion between "in Christ" and "the Body of Christ"

Wrong again

There's a key verse that you're forgetting.

Which is?

Does Gal. 2:7 negate that Jesus told Saul he was persecuting Him ?

It negates your claim that "in Christ" is the same as "the Body of Christ."

Tell me, dodge, was Abraham "in Christ" (ie was he a believer)?

Was he a Christian?

 

[dodge]

:chuckle:

On the contrary

Is that why MAD teaches that the epistles of Paul are and should be studied and not the 4 Gospels where the words of Jesus are given to us !

Is that why ALL other Apostles are placed under Paul's teachings as the ONLY teachings that are necessary and valid ?

Is that why repentance which Jesus, Paul, and all the Apostles taught not believed as valid by MAD ?

Is that why baptism which Jesus, Paul and all the Apostles submitted to now taught by MAD as un-necessary ?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Is that why MAD teaches that the epistles of Paul are and should be studied and not the 4 Gospels where the words of Jesus are given to us !

Is that why ALL other Apostles are placed under Paul's teachings as the ONLY teachings that are necessary and valid ?

Is that why repentance which Jesus, Paul, and all the Apostles taught not believed as valid by MAD ?

Is that why baptism which Jesus, Paul and all the Apostles submitted to now taught by MAD as un-necessary ?

:chuckle:

Ignorance is bliss!

 

[dodge]

JudgeRightly;5037975]No. He was persecuting Jews. Was Paul persecuting Gentiles as well?

Which Jews ? Oh wait, only the Jews that had believed and accepted Christ Jesus who then became CHRISTIANS.

Y

ou're problem is that you're confusing "in Christ" with "the body of Christ."

You're problem is you are removing folks from the body of Christ who were in the B.O.C.

Again, confusion between "in Christ" and "the Body of Christ"

Jesus said Saul was persecuting Him so how do you arrive they were not in the B.O.C. ?

It negates your claim that "in Christ" is the same as "the Body of Christ."

So you believe Jesus lied when He told Saul he was Persecuting Him ?

Tell me, dodge, was Abraham "in Christ" (ie was he a believer)?

Yes.

Was he a Christian?

Of course Abraham was a Christian. Not only did Jesus' sacrifice pay the then and forward for sin it also reached back to the OT saints as in when Jesus descended after death to preach to the captives in Sheol.

 

[steko]

ALL cults marginalize Jesus and MAD does exactly that !

The Lord Jesus is GOD come in the flesh, born of the virgin Mary, lived a sinless life, was falsely accused, shed His blood on the cross to cover our sins, died and was buried, then was raised the third day for our justification. I trust Him exclusively for salvation. He is my Savior! I pray to Him and by Him and I praise and thank Him constantly for all He provides.

See if you can cultify that.

 

[dodge]

The Lord Jesus is GOD come in the flesh, born of the virgin Mary, lived a sinless life, was falsely accused, shed His blood on the cross to cover our sins, died and was buried, then was raised the third day for our justification. I trust Him exclusively for salvation. He is my Savior! I pray to Him and by Him and I praise and thank Him constantly for all He provides.

See if you can cultify that.

 

[Danoh]

Yeah, ok, dodge, Paul was not persecuting Jews, rather; Christians.

If you say so, bro :chuckle:

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Luke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. 8:2 And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him. 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison. 8:4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

Acts 26:8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead? 26:9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 26:10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them. 26:11 And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.

Put away your "what I think this means is what it actually means" and learn to allow the Scripture to interpret Scripture.

 

[dodge]

The Lord Jesus is GOD come in the flesh, born of the virgin Mary, lived a sinless life, was falsely accused, shed His blood on the cross to cover our sins, died and was buried, then was raised the third day for our justification. I trust Him exclusively for salvation. He is my Savior! I pray to Him and by Him and I praise and thank Him constantly for all He provides.

See if you can cultify that.

Nope, cannot place any thing you posted in a cult. What you posted is scriptural, true ,and comes straight to mankind from God Almighty.

What I can place in the area of cultist is denying the teachings of Jesus are for the B.O.C. , excluding the teachings where Jesus said "specifically" He was sent to the lost sheep of Israel,along with reducing the purpose and meanings of Jesus' teachings for His own flock.


For God so loved the "world" that He gave His only begotten Son that "whosoever" believes will not perish but have eternal life....Applies to EVERYONE.

Come unto me....Applies to EVERYONE unless you believe there is another means of salvation besides Jesus.

Jesus said, " I am the light of the world"....Applies to EVERYONE.

Jesus said, "I am the door"...Applies to everyone unless you believe there is another way to the truth.

Jesus said, " I am the way , truth and the life and no one comes to the Father but by me..Applies to everyone unless you believe there is another way than Jesus or another truth that supersedes Jesus.

Those and many more teachings of Jesus were for the B.O.C. My point is NOT only Paul's teachings are for the body of Christ that are believed and taught by many of those in MAD.

 

[Tambora]

excluding the teachings where Jesus said "specifically" He was sent to the lost sheep of Israel,

Why exclude that teaching if the gospel teaching of Jesus Christ has always been the one and only gospel Jesus Christ ever taught?

along with reducing the purpose and meanings of Jesus' teachings for His own flock.

Reducing????

For God so loved the "world" that He gave His only begotten Son that "whosoever" believes will not perish but have eternal life....Applies to EVERYONE.

Come unto me....Applies to EVERYONE unless you believe there is another means of salvation besides Jesus.

Jesus said, " I am the light of the world"....Applies to EVERYONE.

Jesus said, "I am the door"...Applies to everyone unless you believe there is another way to the truth.

Jesus said, " I am the way , truth and the life and no one comes to the Father but by me..Applies to everyone unless you believe there is another way than Jesus or another truth that supersedes Jesus.

Those and many more teachings of Jesus were for the B.O.C. My point is NOT only Paul's teachings are for the body of Christ that are believed and taught by many of those in MAD.

This is your fatal flaw when dealing with MAD.
MAD has never said that EVERYTHING Jesus Christ taught His followers while He walked the earth could only be applied to Israel alone and no one else.
That is a statement you made up to attack.
It's called a strawman.
If you would knock off all your strawman arguments, we could probably have a decent study.

The fact that you keep fighting your own strawmen just shows that your confidence in showing actual errors of MAD is lacking.

 

[Tambora]

Is that why MAD teaches that the epistles of Paul are and should be studied

MAD teaches they should be studied.
Are you disagreeing with that?

and not the 4 Gospels where the words of Jesus are given to us !

MAD does not teach that the 4 Gospels should not be studied.
Attacking a strawman just makes you look foolish.

Is that why ALL other Apostles are placed under Paul's teachings as the ONLY teachings that are necessary and valid ?

MAD does not teach that the 12 apostles were placed under Paul.
Neither was Paul placed under any of the 12.
Stop making stawmen.

Is that why repentance which Jesus, Paul, and all the Apostles taught not believed as valid by MAD ?

MAD does not teach there is no repentance.
Quit making strawmen.

Is that why baptism which Jesus, Paul and all the Apostles submitted to now taught by MAD as un-necessary ?

Are you talking about being dunked in water?

 

[Tambora]

The Lord Jesus is GOD come in the flesh, born of the virgin Mary, lived a sinless life, was falsely accused, shed His blood on the cross to cover our sins, died and was buried, then was raised the third day for our justification. I trust Him exclusively for salvation. He is my Savior! I pray to Him and by Him and I praise and thank Him constantly for all He provides.

See if you can cultify that.

That's MAD teaching.
Dodge says MAD teaching is error.

 

[dodge]

edit

 

[dodge]

Danoh;5037985]Yeah, ok, dodge, Paul was not persecuting Jews, rather; Christians.

If you say so, bro :chuckle:

Danoh, you are smarter than that ! I did not say so Jesus said so.

ct 22:7
And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 22:8

and I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.

We know Paul persecuted the Jews who converted to Christianity and now Jesus is telling Saul
he is persecuting Him.