ECT MAD implies both Jesus and Paul are liars.

[JudgeRightly]

Anyone that promotes not following Jesus based on a few verses where Jesus said I am sent to the lost sheep of Israel and ignores what was for and to the B.O.C. is terribly deceived.

Anyone that says there are "2" Gospels gets elevated to "cult" when scripture clearly teaches "1" Gospel among many other deviations from scripture advocated and passed off as truth.

I think you need a new definition of "cult."

See here.

 

[Interplanner]

I think you need a new definition of "cult."

See here.

More like: see Gal 1-2.

 

[JudgeRightly]

More like: see Gal 1-2.

Could you perhaps put a bit more effort into your argument? Saying "more like" and then giving me two chapters of a book of the Bible isn't being very specific...

 

[JudgeRightly]

I didn't post those two posts you replied to nitwit

My apologies. No need for insults, however.

 

[Danoh]

So if I ignore the context of this verse:

I can then make the verse in question not mean what it says ?

2Ti 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

I can then prove from other scripture that the verse above does not mean what it is saying ?

All you are doing is proving you neither know what you are talking about, nor what that passage is talking about, nor what I'd meant by what I said to you about it.

Here, I'll spell it out for you...

What Scriptures is he talking about specifically?

And how is it they are able to make him wise? How does that work?

And how is they are able to not merely make unto salvation; but through faith which is in Christ Jesus?

Answering any of these kinds of actual Bible study types of questions, requires actual study of both the passage, and it's' various words; and it's' related passages - not your obvious "well, what it means to me is such and so...yeah, that is what it means..."

Actually getting at the intended understanding is much like learning how take apart your weapon in the Military; you have to learn how all the pieces "work together for" their intended "good."

And you have to put them back together properly, and so on.

The way you have been handling one passage of Scripture or another, on here; you'd end up doing a whole lot of "KP" in the Military, bro.

Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy...

Again...

What Scriptures is he talking about specifically?

And how is it they are able to make him wise? How does that work?

And how is they are able to not merely make unto salvation; but through faith which is in Christ Jesus?

Yours in Him,

Rom. 5:8

Prov. 27:17

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Could you perhaps put a bit more effort into your argument? Saying "more like" and then giving me two chapters of a book of the Bible isn't being very specific...

Yes, that is his method of operation.

 

[dodge]

Jesus and Paul taught two different things to two different groups.

Jesus taught the Law to the Children of Israel. He wanted a corporate relationship with Israel, so that Israel as a nation could go out into the world and teach about their Messiah.

Paul taught Grace to the world so that the world might become the Body of Christ in order to make Israel jealous of what they have, so that they would repent and return to their Messiah.

No they didn't that is you adding to God's word.

Jesus, Peter , Paul , and all of the Apostles taught grace

 

[dodge]

So you're equating "Jesus, faith, GRACE, and salvation" with "Moses and the prophets"?

Sounds like you're calling Moses Jesus, and I'm pretty sure they're two different people.

Let me ask you this, dodge, was Jesus lying when He told His disciples that some of them would not even make it through the surrounding cities before His return?

The truth is in the OT read it again. If the basic elements of salvation are not in the OT then Jesus would be a liar, and He is not a liar.

Jesus said," if they hear not Moses and the prophets neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead".

 

[dodge]

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” - Matthew 15:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:24&version=NKJV



But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” - Matthew 15:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew15:24&version=NKJV



*checks the four gospels for any mention of "body," "of," "Christ," does not find any*

Hmmm

*checks the Pauline epistles for "body," "of," "Christ," finds many instances*

Ah.



You have yet to present a problem text for "MAD," dodge.[/QUOTEIs that all Jesus said ?

He also said, "For God so loved the world that whosoever believe" etc .

He also said, "come unto me you that are heaven" laden etc.

He also said," I am the light of the world : etc.

He also said," I am the door etc."

He also said, " I am the true vine etc".

If just the above sayings of Jesus were for Israel then what would you base YOUR salvation on now ?

You do understand that Paul only repeated what Jesus taught Him right ?

 

[dodge]

Dodge, do you do everything Jesus says to do?

Do you tithe 10%? Do you sell all you have and follow Him? If you don't, you're sinning. Or are you?

Paul says that if you circumcise you are a debtor to keep the whole law. In other words, if you keep one law, you must keep them all.

Obviously not ! Do you ignore everything Jesus taught because only several verses says "to Israel " ?

 

[JudgeRightly]

No they didn't that is you adding to God's word.

Jesus, Peter , Paul , and all of the Apostles taught grace

Then show me where in the four gospels Jesus said the word "Grace".

You can't, because He never once uttered the word grace. However, He mentions Law quite a few times.

Just read His Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7). All of it is law.

Peter was an apostle. All of the Apostles were given the command to go out into all the world. Did they do that? NO. In fact, after the big meeting between Paul and the other Apostles (Galatians 2), we don't AT ALL see the 12 going out into the world, only addressing the people of Israel, and we see Paul going all over the place with "his gospel."

The truth is in the OT read it again. If the basic elements of salvation are not in the OT then Jesus would be a liar, and He is not a liar.

They are, and I just gave them to you. Read through the rest of my posts.

Jesus said," if they hear not Moses and the prophets neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead".

Already explained above.

 

[dodge]

Funnily enough, Paul calls his message "my gospel" a few times...

As Galatians also teaches that Paul persecuted the faith he now preaches.

Who was Paul persecuting ? Answer: Christians

Now if Paul was persecuting Christians which he was he then After he was saved began to preach their message of faith. Faith in who ? Answer: Faith in Jesus.

Jesus went on to ask Saul why are you persecuting me and Saul asked who are you Lord to which Jesus answered " I am Jesus who you are persecuting". We know Saul persecuted Christians and yet Jesus said Saul was persecuting Him why ? Answer: because as Saul persecuted Christians he was persecuting Jesus because the ones Saul persecuted were in the B.O.C. , and all before Saul ever got saved.

 

[dodge]

Correction: Paul persecuted the Church, which was comprised of only Jews and proselyte Jews.

Fixed your punctuation.

Thanks

Except it's not the Body of Christ Paul was persecuting. He was persecuting the church.

Wrong. Jesus told Saul he was persecuting him because the ones Saul persecuted were in the B.O.C.

The church in Acts 1-8 is not what we today would call the church.

Wrong again

There's a key verse that you're forgetting.

Go read Galatians 2:7, 9.

Does Gal. 2:7 negate that Jesus told Saul he was persecuting Him ?

 

[dodge]

Were the proselyte Jewish believers "in Christ" before Paul was saved? If yes, then Andronicus and Junia (who were most likely Jews (via "kinsmen")) were in Christ before Paul.

Immateria; ! They were in the B.O.C. according to Paul as " they were in Christ before me ".

 

[dodge]

Again, where's the contradiction?

Were proselyte Jews (What today we would call "Messianic Jews") not "in Christ"?

The only contradiction I see is you denying what Paul said ! "they were in Christ before me".

 

[glorydaz]

Something else to note...

On the day the law was given...

So the sons of Levi did according to the word of Moses. And about three thousand men of the people fell that day. - Exodus 32:28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus32:28&version=NKJV

However, on the day the Spirit was given...

Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. - Acts 2:41 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts2:41&version=NKJV

Showing that the Law kills but the Spirit gives life.

Great point, and I remember having read that before. :thumb:

 

[dodge]

No, it simply means that they were "in Christ," like the verse says.

"In Christ" means in the B.O.C.

 

[dodge]

Again, Galatians 2:7, 9, Read them.

Again "In Christ" means in the B.O.C..

 

[dodge]

See my above comments about this.

How can anyone confuse " In Christ" and claim the opposite of what it says ?

 

[dodge]

JudgeRightly;5037857]Did Paul destroy the Body of Christ? NO! (btw that verse has nothing to do with there being "ONE Gospel")

Are you denying that Jesus told Saul "why are you persecuting me " ? Of course Saul was persecuting the B.O.C. as said by Jesus.

Did Paul destroy the "Church"? YES!

Again Jesus told Saul that Saul was persecuting the B.O.C.

Was the Church the Body of Christ? NO!

Your argument is with Jesus who said Saul was persecuting Him !

BZZZZT! WRONG!

The Jews who accepted Jesus were not Christian in your opinion ?

Paul was persecuting the Jews who believed.

Also know as Christians.

How do you get "persecuting Christians" out of "persecuting Jews"? Paul was persecuting the Jewish believers, what we would call today "Messianic Jews."

Jesus said Saul was persecuting Him when he persecuted those Jews who accepted Jesus ! Why do you disregard what Jesus said ?

By the way... What had just happened prior to Acts 9?

By the way how did the over 3000 in Acts 2 and the 5000 get added into the B.O.C. before Saul ever got saved ?

Who did Saul have killed?

Stephen who was also a member of the B.O.C.

Was he a Jew or Gentile?

He was "in Christ" immaterial and diversion noted.