LOST - discussion about the TV series LOST. ** SPOILER ALERT **

[zoo22]

WOW. This theory blew my mind. This is not mine, but I couldn't not post it here. (Link below.) Most Lost theories are 95% conjecture and pure imagination and "what if" and "like, it could be!" This guy has done his homework, makes a logical and orderly case, and has multiple arguments with evidence.

What shocks and disappoints me the most is the fact that, considering Ben is my favorite character on the whole show, yet I never saw this. It's brilliant. It should have been mine!

http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2010/05/ben-is-secret-agent-for-jacob-by-lamech.html?success

Now, I want to go turn the donkey wheel, take it off its axis, skip through time to yesterday so I can post this before him!

snip

2. If Ben has always been out of the loop, how did he know about the rules" when he said after Alex had been shot, 'He changed the rules?"

Nitpicking, but in that scene, Ben was talking about Widmore changing the rules. They have their own set of rules.

EDIT: I did just read a Jeff Jensen recap where he mentions that he now thinks Ben might have been referring to Jacob when he said that. I could be wrong. But it had seemed apparent to me it was about Widmore, especially after their conversation at Widmore's house. Also, as much as I like his recaps, Jeff Jensen doesn't always have the most accurate takes on things.

 

[zoo22]

But what happened to the light. When they went to put Sayid in the water @ the temple to save him - hadn't it gone away? What's happening with the island?

I'd thought the temple pool losing it's light & power was supposed to be related to Jacob's dying, but I don't know how that would fit with this past episode. Jacob doesn't really have anything to do with the light but keep an eye on it. Maybe it was more about smokie getting stronger.

When MIB went down the Magic Wormhole Light of Everything Ice Cream Cave, the light did fade. Don't know if that was permanent.

And the light that comes from behind The Frozen Donkey Wheel now isn't that same "happy happy light" it was before. It's not golden light. And it sure doesn't seem warm...

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Jacob and Esau have their fate sealed.

Jacob and Esau have their fate sealed.

There have been rumors flying around the internet today that when ABC put up one of their LOST recap video's on YouTube the description stated....

"Jacob and Esau have their fate sealed."

One person has even claimed to have taken a screen capture of it (see attachment below). Of course all of this could have been easily faked and the YouTube video doesn't have that description now. Currently, the video's description states.... "Jacob and his brother have their fate sealed."

Of course many folks have long claimed that the MIB's real name is Esau but the show's producers insist they have not given him a name, nor will they.

Yet it's hard to deny the similarities between the MIB and Esau from the Bible.

- The MIB has a twin brother named Jacob
- Jacob was born first and Esau second
- Jacob was ultimately given the right that Esau thought was rightfully his
- Esau is also called "Edom", which means red. Red seems to be the color used on LOST when something of importance is about to happen i.e., usually when the smoke monster shows up or when fate is about to take a turn.
- Esau means "hairy one" and certainly the MIB appears to be a bit more "fuzzy" than Jacob. (stretching, stretching....)

Now....
I DO NOT think that LOST is a story about the Bible, however I DO believe that the writers and producers have taken concepts from the Bible and used them in the show and the story of Jacob and Esau/MIB is a perfect example.

I thought it might be fun if we (as a group of theology "experts") pondered this and other biblical "types" that are hidden (or not so hidden) in the TV series LOST.

Anyone have another example??? :think:

I have several more examples but I would rather heard what you guys/gals have to say first.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

UPDATE: there does seem to be some real evidence that the ABC YouTube video was originally described as "Jacob and Esau have their fate sealed."

Not just YouTube but Hulu.com!
When the video was placed on Hulu by ABC it was originally titled: "Jacob and Esau learn their destiny." and then it was later changed to "Jacob and his brother learn their destiny."

Could the LOST writer's be trying to cause a bit of stir? :think: Or was this all just an error, an amazingly odd coincidence?

 

[The Graphite]

UPDATE: there does seem to be some real evidence that the ABC YouTube video was originally described as "Jacob and Esau have their fate sealed."

Not just YouTube but Hulu.com!
When the video was placed on Hulu by ABC it was originally titled: "Jacob and Esau learn their destiny." and then it was later changed to "Jacob and his brother learn their destiny."

Could the LOST writer's be trying to cause a bit of stir? :think: Or was this all just an error, an amazingly odd coincidence?

I'm just theorizing, but it seems very plausible to me that someone at ABC is a fan of the show, works on things like this in relation to promoting shows, and knows that fans often refer to these two characters as "Jacob & Esau," so he wrote the copy that way at first, by mistake.

It's not necessarily the show creators who did this. In fact, it seems unlikely to me.

It could be a spoiler... or it could just be an ABC desk jockey referring to the fact that fans commonly refer to MIB as "Esau."

 

[zoo22]

I'm just theorizing, but it seems very plausible to me that someone at ABC is a fan of the show, works on things like this in relation to promoting shows, and knows that fans often refer to these two characters as "Jacob & Esau," so he wrote the copy that way at first, by mistake.

It's not necessarily the show creators who did this. In fact, it seems unlikely to me.

It could be a spoiler... or it could just be an ABC desk jockey referring to the fact that fans commonly refer to MIB as "Esau."

That's what I think. A copywriter used "Esau," based on either what they called MIB, or what they'd been hearing fans call MIB. ...A flub.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I'm just theorizing, but it seems very plausible to me that someone at ABC is a fan of the show, works on things like this in relation to promoting shows, and knows that fans often refer to these two characters as "Jacob & Esau," so he wrote the copy that way at first, by mistake.

It's not necessarily the show creators who did this. In fact, it seems unlikely to me.

It could be a spoiler... or it could just be an ABC desk jockey referring to the fact that fans commonly refer to MIB as "Esau."

That's what I think. A copywriter used "Esau," based on either what they called MIB, or what they'd been hearing fans call MIB. ...A flub.

Very plausible indeed, and I certainly wouldn't argue dogmatically one way or another on that topic.

But even still, I'm sure both of you agree that the MIB is a "type" of Esau right?

Let's discuss all the other biblical "types" in LOST.

 

[The Graphite]

Jack is the prodigal son.

He couldn't wait to leave the island. He thought this would make him happy, and he even got an immediate "inheritance" from Oceanic (the settlement), but all his freedom did was make him miserable and broken.

He ran back to the island, where he has found himself again. Welcomed at the table of Jacob.

 

[WandererInFog]

Well, if this episode telegraphed some of the things I think it did, the internet will be filled with a great deal of nerdrage following the finale.

I think what we saw here was the writers effectively saying that we're never going to have explained the mysteries revolving around what the island actually is, because none of the characters, including Jacob, actually know. What this episode showed is that Jacob himself never actually got a real explanation as to what it was he was supposed to be protecting or why, and I think it's actually reasonable to infer that the reason for this is that his "mother" didn't know either.

In effect, Jacob has been doing exactly the same thing in protecting the island that Desmond was doing in pressing the numbers down in the hatch. He's performing a task, having been told that if he doesn't something horrible will result, without it ever being explained to him exactly what would happen or why, and just having to accept on faith that he's been told the truth.

Now, assuming that there is supposed to be some sort of symmetry there then this also means that what Jacob has been told isn't entirely true and that there's some sort of "fail-safe" that will make it "all go away". It could also be that Widmore knows what that is and it's why he brought Desmond to the island.

 

[Lucky]

The Esau description and immediate change was probably done just to play with the already clinically insane minds of Lost fans.

:mock::hammer:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

The Esau description and immediate change was probably done just to play with the already clinically insane minds of Lost fans.

:mock::hammer:

That's another possible scenario.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I think what we saw here was the writers effectively saying that we're never going to have explained the mysteries revolving around what the island actually is,

I hope you are right.

At this point.....
There is no explanation that could possibly satisfy the imagination.

 

[The Graphite]

I've been thinking about the latest episode, "Across the Sea." As I reflect on how the "other" people on the island tried to exercise their freedom to dig holes in the ground, and how "Mother" battled against this by being willing to get really down and dirty and filling in those holes...

It only confirms to me, more than ever, that this show has always been about free wells vs. dusty knees.


Please don't hurt me. :granite:

 

[zoo22]

Wow, it's the last week of LOST.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Wow, it's the last week of LOST.

I know.... it's wild isn't it?

I'm excited and also a bit sad. It's been so awesome spending time with our various LOST buddies, I hate seeing it all end.

 

[Lucky]

Second to last episode Tuesday night and last episode Sunday night? Yeah... I might watch. :noid:

What are the worst ways they could end it?
Repeat the first few minutes of the pilot.
To Be Continued
Someone on a plane wakes up from a bad dream.
Desmond punching numbers into an iPad.
Hugo dancing in a grass skirt on the beach there in Hawaii.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Who are the bodies in the cave?

What do we know about them? We know that one was a man and the other was a women. We know that they had a small satchel containing a white and a black rock. We know they had been dead for about 30-40 years - yet with the whole time travel issue who knows how long they have actually been there.

Therefore, I think the following two options are the most likely...

1. Rose and Bernard. We know that Rose and Bernard went their own way prior to the nuke being blown in the season 5 finale. We know that at that point in their life and all they had been through all they cared about was their love for each other. Since they were off living on their own it's possible that they simply died together in the caves possibly of old-age or whatever else. The black and white rocks maybe have signified their love for each other: Rose being a black person and Bernard being a white person. Jack finding them in the caves dead yet prior to their death would prove that the time travel aspect of the show was very well thought out from the very beginning of the show.

My other theory is far more wacky yet fits within the scheme of a new overall theory of the show I am working on in my brain.

2. Adam and Eve. Yup, the real Adam and Eve! Jack jokes with Kate that the two dead bodies are their "own Adam and Eve". Maybe Jack didn't realize how accurate that statement really was. The black and white rock was given to Eve by the Smoke-monster i.e., devil/satan/evil force to tempt her. I can't say much more on this theory yet because I'm still fleshing it out but I think it's pretty awesome. Garden of Eden, fountain of youth (in the temple, but now the healing water has darkened), ring any bells?

I'm glad I was wrong about this.

Having the bodies be the MIB and his mother made much more sense. Although, at the time we were guessing all of this we knew almost nothing of the MIB and had no idea he was going to play such an integral role in the show.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Second to last episode Tuesday night and last episode Sunday night? Yeah... I might watch. :noid:

Why don't you fly up to my house and watch it with me.

What are the worst ways they could end it?
Repeat the first few minutes of the pilot.

That wouldn't be terrible but I am hoping for something more creative.

To Be Continued

That would be awful, no... that would be great... no, that would be awful... no that would be great! I don't know how I would feel about that.

Someone on a plane wakes up from a bad dream.

That's probably the worst case scenario.

Desmond punching numbers into an iPad.

:rotfl:

Hugo dancing in a grass skirt on the beach there in Hawaii.

That my friend is the best possible ending I can think of.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Here's a completely wacky biblical connection that I am sure is totally off-base.

Claire has sung the lullaby, Catch a Falling Star ever since the beginning of the show.

Here is an excerpt of the lyrics...

For when your troubles startn multiplyin,
An' they just might!
It's easy to forget them without tryin,
With just a pocketful of starlight!

Catch a falling star an put it in your pocket,
Never let it fade away!
Catch a falling star an put it in your pocket,
Save it for a rainy day!​

Our losties troubles sure have multiplied (literally!!) And we know that the golden cave contains a golden light that Jacob and Esau's mother said they should protect and never let fade away. A little bit of that light is in each man (symbolically in our pocket). Not to mention that every rainy day on "LOST island" is usually sign that something bad is about to happen.

Claire and smokie left the temple after killing all the people who refused to join them, and as they left the carnage what song was playing? Claire was given a music box from her father at the reading of his last will and testament. The music box played (as you all already know... Catch a Falling Star). Clearly that song is important.

And what is significant about falling Stars??? (here's the stretch)

Then the third angel sounded: And a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. - Revelation 8:10​

Ummm.. the star fell into a spring of water?? :shocked: Sounds like the same place the MIB "fell" into. (with a little "push" from his brother Jacob)

But there is more...

Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. - Revelation 9:1​

Whoa... a fallen star was given the keys to a bottomless pit??

But wait, there is more....

And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. - Revelation 9:2​

Uh.... whoa.... that's exactly what happened when the MIB "fell" into the pit of golden light which was in the middle of a watery spring. He turned into a column of smoke and arose from the pit.

I wonder what the name of this fallen fallen angel (fallen star) was???

Lets find out!

And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon. - Revelation 9:11​

His name was what????

Apollyon??? Where have I seen that name before? Apollyon? Apollo Candy bars anyone???

Clearly this means that the golden cave that the MIB fell into was Apollyon's! Which means Apollyon is the origin of the golden cave and also the very same "smokie" i.e., fallen angel that haunt's us all and compels us to do all sorts of awful things to this very day (I embellished that part) . After he escaped the cave he started a candy company and one of their largest customers was the Dharma Initiative. :noid: (OK, that part was totally silly)

What??? Ya don't believe me??? Apollo candy cars are DARK Chocolate!!! :doh:

But wait... that's not all!!

Jack and Claire's dad was also (at times) the smoke monster (Apollyon). The smoke monster showed up OFF the island as Jack's dad in season 4 therefore we know that smokie has been off-island running around as Christian Sheppard. Currently (on the show) the smoke monster seems to be protecting Claire on the island. Could Apollyon (the smoke monster) be the actual father of Claire???? :shocked: Which would explain why he sung her a lullaby about his own journey to earth???

What does this all mean???? I HAVE NO IDEA!!!!!! :madmad:

 

[chatmaggot]

HOW do you come up with these things? Seriously...it might all be wrong...but the fun is coming up with the ideas.

When Claire got the box and neither she nor Jack knew what it meant I thought that was odd. I just chalked it up as another one of those "things" that probably wouldn't be explained.