LOST - discussion about the TV series LOST. ** SPOILER ALERT **

[zoo22]

About 5 minutes! :madmad:

We were "filled in" as to what happened but it was really annoying.

Seriously.... what's so important about a stupid tornado??? This is LOST we are talking about here!! :noid:

Remember when there were regular "emergency broadcast warning" tests on TV? ... Those always left me with an unnerving feeling when I was a kid. Especially late-night.

:noid:

Come to think of it, they actually had a Dharma Initiative flavor to them.

 

[zoo22]

I'm feeling a little stumped right now... A few things that I thought would happen happened, but sooner than I expected. I didn't think that there'd be a replacement this episode. I did think Ben might switch this episode (But I think he'll switch again).

And I'm not sure about my "Jack sacrifices and sinks the Island with Desmond's help" theory now... Need to rethink. Though obviously both are going to play a huge role in the end game.

I really, really, really, really hope that there isn't a scene in the finale where something heavy's going down on the island, while Charlie and Faraday and David are playing a classical version of "You All Everybody" at the LAX_Alt concert. lain:

I figure Aaron'll be born. Seems a no-brainer.

Will Faraday be David's music instructor? Seems like.

Will Locke and Jack remember the Island at the same time?

Any new (old) characters we haven't seen yet that people think we'll see turn up on Sunday?

I'm thinking:

Juliette (obviously)
Walt (I think he'll make it)
Shannon
Christian?

How about a Radzinski and/or Horace cameo?

On Island: Bernard & Rose. & Vincent.

I'm looking forward to some more Eloise. Will Widmore be in the LAX_Alt again or was that it? I'll guess yes he will be.

 

[zoo22]

Now that Jack's the new Jacob, I'll bet he's kicking himself for smashing those lighthouse mirrors...

lain:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

And I'm not sure about my "Jack sacrifices and sinks the Island with Desmond's help" theory now... Need to rethink. Though obviously both are going to play a huge role in the end game.

I'm not convinced Jack is not faking his acceptance of his appointment of being the new Jacob. Afterall... Jack fooled "the others" and gained the upper hand when he agreed to remove Ben's spinal tumor.

I really, really, really, really hope that there isn't a scene in the finale where something heavy's going down on the island, while Charlie and Faraday and David are playing a classical version of "You All Everybody" at the LAX_Alt concert. lain:

I agree. A selection from Geronimo Jackson would be much more fitting.

 

[Poly]

Remember when there were regular "emergency broadcast warning" tests on TV? ... Those always left me with an unnerving feeling when I was a kid. Especially late-night.

:noid:

Come to think of it, they actually had a Dharma Initiative flavor to them.

Hmmm... that's freaky.

When I was a kid, those warnings and the late night sign offs used to scare me so bad. I never understood why. :idunno:

 

[zoo22]

I'm not convinced Jack is not faking his acceptance of his appointment of being the new Jacob.

Since LOST began, I wonder how significant an increase there's been in the use of the phrase "I'm not convinced."

lain:

Yeah, I'm not necessarily thinking he's "faking," but as you, I'm not convinced. I'm somewhat convinced though. I'm definitely not convinced that he's going to play his role out for the length of time Jacob has... I think Jack might have the shortest tenure as "Island Light Protector" in the history of the Island.

Afterall... Jack fooled "the others" and gained the upper hand when he agreed to remove Ben's spinal tumor.

I think the "faith" changes he's gone through are real.

I agree. A selection from Geronimo Jackson would be much more fitting.

:chuckle:

I really dread that scenario.

Well, no matter what, it's gonna be quite a shindig.

 

[zoo22]

Also I liked in this episode that the mark on Jack's neck was actually on his neck, and not just in the mirror. Like there's actually some kind of physical merge happening rather than only glimpses in people's minds.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Yeah, I'm not necessarily thinking he's "faking," but as you, I'm not convinced. I'm somewhat convinced though. I'm definitely not convinced that he's going to play his role out for the length of time Jacob has... I think Jack might have the shortest tenure as "Island Light Protector" in the history of the Island.

The solution might be more simple than we think....

Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, and the remaining folks on the island preoccupy and trick the smoke monster into sinking the island while he is still on it thereby trapping him forever. Maybe they push him back into the golden cave? :idunno: Or maybe the smoke monster sinks the island but our losties trap him in some way so that he sinks along with the island.

The downside is they all die in the process. Or do they?

As Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, and the gang deal with the smoke monster, Desmond must rush to "wake" everyone up in the ALT. By waking up our losties in the ALT it truly saves them by transporting them into a "safe" reality where their lives are not being threatened by the smoke monster. Yet the beauty is... those that "wake up" in the ALT will be our REAL losties from the island, they will have all their memories in tact. It will really be them, our favorite characters that we have grown to love over the last 6 years, not a ALT version that we cannot identify with. For instance, Hurley in the ALT is now awake thanks to Desmond and Libby, therefore Hurley is safe! He has escaped the island in tact! All Hurley needs to do now is let go. Let go of his island conciseness and when he does he is truly free and has escaped the island. Jin, Sun, Kate, Sawyer, Sayid, and even Jack and Locke can escape if they can "wake up" in the ALT and then let go of their island reality.

Therefore... Desmond needs to work quick to wake up the losties while our on-island hero's trick the smoke monster into trapping himself under water.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Adding to my last post.

When our losties set off the nuclear bomb at the end of season 5 i.e., "the incident" they essentially created a way to leave the island.

The VERY satisfying thing about that idea is that is what makes all the time travel stuff so incredibly vital to the story. I was growing a little concerned that the time travel stuff was just a side-story which would have been a bit of a let down.

They created a safe duplicate of themselves in another dimension. A duplicate that is safe from the smoke-monster and all the other island pit-falls. Yet, the missing piece was a mechanism to transport themselves from one reality to the other.

In walks Desmond.

Desmond is special. He is the fail safe. He is the mechanism to "wake up" our losties and thereby transport them from the island to the ALT. Just imagine how excited Hurely must have been when he "woke up" and realized he was now off the island. His ALT life and his island life now merged he is... "Hurley complete". And also imagine how excited he must be getting to help Desmond transport or "wake up" the rest of our losties and rescue them from the island! Even folks who are dead on the island have hope in the ALT. For instance, Libby who was murdered on the island is now alive again in the ALT but not just a ALT version of Libby, it's REALLY Libby! The same Libby who crashed on the island in the tail section.

It also appears that our rescuers (Desmond and Hurley) are not to quick to wake everyone. They must have felt like most LOST fans do about Anna Lucia because they made no effort whatsoever to wake her. :chuckle:

One interesting question is.... which reality is really effecting the other? Does Jack and Locke need to let go in the ALT before they can do what is truly necessary on the island? Or does Jack need to trap and destroy the smoke monster on the island in order for he and Locke to let go in the ALT???? :think: Does it even matter that the ALT is chronologically happening three years before the island reality? I suppose that part isn't important as long as Desmond and Hurley are successful in waking up who they want woken up before the island is sunk or destroyed.

 

[zoo22]

The solution might be more simple than we think....

Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, and the remaining folks on the island preoccupy and trick the smoke monster into sinking the island while he is still on it thereby trapping him forever. Maybe they push him back into the golden cave? :idunno: Or maybe the smoke monster sinks the island but our losties trap him in some way so that he sinks along with the island.

The downside is they all die in the process. Or do they?

As Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, and the gang deal with the smoke monster, Desmond must rush to "wake" everyone up in the ALT. By waking up our losties in the ALT it truly saves them by transporting them into a "safe" reality where their lives are not being threatened by the smoke monster. Yet the beauty is... those that "wake up" in the ALT will be our REAL losties from the island, they will have all their memories in tact. It will really be them, our favorite characters that we have grown to love over the last 6 years, not a ALT version that we cannot identify with. For instance, Hurley in the ALT is now awake thanks to Desmond and Libby, therefore Hurley is safe! He has escaped the island in tact! All Hurley needs to do now is let go. Let go of his island conciseness and when he does he is truly free and has escaped the island. Jin, Sun, Kate, Sawyer, Sayid, and even Jack and Locke can escape if they can "wake up" in the ALT and then let go of their island reality.

Therefore... Desmond needs to work quick to wake up the losties while our on-island hero's trick the smoke monster into trapping himself under water.

Yeah that's pretty much what I've been saying. I think we're going to see the "there's only one end" Jacob talked about. This'll be the end. And I've thought the island'll go down and everyone left will die, but merge into either LAX_Alt or similar... And I think Jack will have to convince those left on the Island to have faith to die...

But today I questioned myself a bit.

And I want to think about what might happen to Smokie. Will he find peace? Or will he just die? Or will his dying give him peace? I think he needs a resolution, an I think he deserves peace, rather than remaining trapped.

On a much further out there note, could he wind up somehow being Aaron and be able to live a life?

Sorry of there are a lot of errors here... On the iPhone on a bus

 

[zoo22]

But I especially like the aspect of needing to be conciously aware of the island reality... Similar to constants. In way, it's almost as if Desmond is forcing some kind of constants on them in the LAX_Alt.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

And I've thought the island'll go down and everyone left will die, but merge into either LAX_Alt or similar.

Yet, if they don't "wake up" in the ALT (via Desmond and the gang) I don't think their realities will merge, at least not for that person. Otherwise Desmond wouldn't bother doing the work he is doing. He could just wait it out and let the merging happen as the island was destroyed.

Therefore, there must be some reason that once the island is destroyed or sunk you can no longer escape the island which is why Desmond is rushing around running people over in his car and beating people up in the school parking lot. There seems to be a time crunch, or a deadline of some sort. (which certainly points to the destruction or sinking of the island) I suppose that only makes sense right? You can only escape from somewhere before it's gone entirely.

 

[zoo22]

But that's a nice post, Knight and I want to respond better, but this bus has no shocks (pretty much feels like one of the 20 year-old Dharma vans), and I won't be home til late so it'll have to wait.

 

[zoo22]

Yet, if they don't "wake up" in the ALT (via Desmond and the gang) I don't think their realities will merge, at least not for that person. Otherwise Desmond wouldn't bother doing the work he is doing. He could just wait it out and let the merging happen as the island was destroyed.

Therefore, there must be some reason that once the island is destroyed or sunk you can no longer escape the island which is why Desmond is rushing around running people over in his car and beating people up in the school parking lot. There seems to be a time crunch, or a deadline of some sort. (which certainly points to the destruction or sinking of the island) I suppose that only makes sense right? You can only escape from somewhere before it's gone entirely.

Yeah, I think we were posting at the same time... Tried touching on that in the post right above yours. I agree.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

But I especially like the aspect of needing to be conciously aware of the island reality... Similar to constants. In way, it's almost as if Desmond is forcing some kind of constants on them in the LAX_Alt.

Yeah, that is really cool isn't it?

But even better than that is we get to see our losties escape the island in a really creative way. I was never as emotionally connected with the folks in the ALT. Yes they were the same people but I didn't know them like I knew their island counter-part. By transporting their conciseness from the island reality to the ALT reality we get to see our losties saved but not just a fake ALT version of them, we get to see our REAL losties saved and reunited off the island. I can't wait to see Jin and Sun awake in the ALT and reunited (this time it will be more emotional than ever before).

 

[zoo22]

Yeah, that is really cool isn't it?

But even better than that is we get to see our losties escape the island in a really creative way. I was never as emotionally connected with the folks in the ALT. Yes they were the same people but I didn't know them like I knew their island counter-part. By transporting their conciseness from the island reality to the ALT reality we get to see our losties saved but not just a fake ALT version of them, we get to see our REAL losties saved and reunited off the island. I can't wait to see Jin and Sun awake in the ALT and reunited (this time it will be more emotional than ever before).

Yep. I've pretty much been thinking it has to end that way unless they all just died, which I'm sure they won't do (though I admit I like that type of ending).

But a real "merge" is really the only way that we can hold onto the characters we love, and it's almost the only thing that could really justify the LAX_Alt through this entire season. Without some kind of Island "knowledge," or crossover, we're dealing with completely different characters than on-Island (and the producers have repeatedly stressed the importance of LOST characters being the most important aspect of the series and finale).And "we the people/viewers" simply don't care about the LAX_Alt characters without our Island losties being a part of them.

While I was typing, I realized I think that's exactly what was going on with Bernard in that scene I keep yammering about. That Jack/Bernard scene has really been eating at me... I just realized Bernard knows. But just like on the island, they (Rose & Bernard) are not interfering; they're staying out of the fracas; staying out of the games; staying out of the gobbledygook; the bombings... But Bernard knows. And beyond his knowing stares and hints and prodding and loaded comments, that was also the significance of the "3 year" reference: A tip that the timelines are running concurrently.

I believe (currently very firmly) that was what was going on in that Jack/Bernard dentist office meet. If Jack had said, "Um, Bernard, did we by chance ever crash on a crazy mystical island together three years ago?" Bernard would have said, "Jack... Of course we did. I thought you'd never bring it up..."

 

[zoo22]

Ugh today I wish I had time to sit at the computer...

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Ugh today I wish I had time to sit at the computer...

Maybe you need a 3G iPad.

 

[zoo22]

Maybe you need a 3G iPad.

I do. I do. I'm waiting for the next gen. Maybe. Did you pre order one? If so, your verdict?

I've gotten very mixed reviews from friends so far.

 

[zoo22]

The solution might be more simple than we think....

Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, and the remaining folks on the island preoccupy and trick the smoke monster into sinking the island while he is still on it thereby trapping him forever. Maybe they push him back into the golden cave? :idunno: Or maybe the smoke monster sinks the island but our losties trap him in some way so that he sinks along with the island.

Okay I'll try to address that at the end...

The downside is they all die in the process. Or do they?

I think they do (but merge/live on in the/an alt).

As Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, and the gang deal with the smoke monster, Desmond must rush to "wake" everyone up in the ALT. By waking up our losties in the ALT it truly saves them by transporting them into a "safe" reality where their lives are not being threatened by the smoke monster. Yet the beauty is... those that "wake up" in the ALT will be our REAL losties from the island, they will have all their memories in tact. It will really be them, our favorite characters that we have grown to love over the last 6 years, not a ALT version that we cannot identify with. For instance, Hurley in the ALT is now awake thanks to Desmond and Libby, therefore Hurley is safe! He has escaped the island in tact! All Hurley needs to do now is let go. Let go of his island conciseness and when he does he is truly free and has escaped the island. Jin, Sun, Kate, Sawyer, Sayid, and even Jack and Locke can escape if they can "wake up" in the ALT and then let go of their island reality.

I think the consciousness cross is a big part of it. I think that's what Desmond's doing (in the LAX_Alt)...Just as he's trying to whack each person into cross-recognition, I think he's also in a sense creating a kind of "constant" for each Lostie. I don't think they can survive the inevitable merge without making a connection between the two "worlds," and I think Desmond understands this (well, "knows" if not "understands"). Through his own ability to consciousness-shift or whatever... He knows.

And yep, I believe "let go" is very big... I think that Sun and Jin's hands "letting go" of one another as they drowned was a deep pointer towards this. As their hands fell away from one another in death, they weren't letting go of each other, but rather were letting go of the binds they'd been trying to deal with up until that climactic point. Together.

Locke is already "letting go" by telling Jack that he'll go through with the operation.

"Letting go"-wise, I predict:

Sawyer will see Cooper and his pathetic state and "let it go."
Sayid will meet Shannon, and "let it go" with Nadia.
Claire willl "let it go" and birth Aaron. Duh.

I'll try to think of more...

Therefore... Desmond needs to work quick to wake up the losties while our on-island hero's trick the smoke monster into trapping himself under water.

Okay, so back to smokie, as I'd said at the beginning... I'm thinking that there needs to be a "final" resolution for MIB/smokie. Not to be re-trapped... That would be awful!! Maybe he dies... He gets killed. Maybe he gets pushed through to some other life. But it seems like it'd be really bad to leave the poor once-man/smoke "monster" trapped as he is. I think he needs to be released, put to rest, killed, whatever, for his story to resolve. It should have an end. He's been through a lot and it needs to end.