LOST - discussion about the TV series LOST. ** SPOILER ALERT **

[Nathon Detroit]

Here's another thought. This one is short.

In re-watching LOST I noticed something rather odd and out of place. In season 5 when Locke AKA Jeremy Bentham leaves the island to try to convince the "Oceanic 6" to return, he makes a side trip to visit Walt. There is almost no purpose to this visit, he doesn't ask Walt to come back to the island, he doesn't ask Walt to do anything in particular. Locke merely tells Walt he wanted to see him. But the moment he touches Walt, Walt tells him a bit about Lockes future on the island via a dream Walt had about Locke.

Walt: Hey, John.
Locke: Hi, Walt.
Walt: What happened?
Locke: I hurt my leg. You don’t seem surprised to see me.
Walt: I’ve been having dreams about you. You were on the Island, wearing a suit, and there are people all around you. They wanted to hurt you, John.

That scene is similar to what happens in season 1 when Locke touches Walt and Walt tells Locke a bit about his future and the hatch:

Locke: What’s the matter?
Walt: Don’t open it.
Locke: What’d you say?
Walt: Don’t open it, Mr. Locke. Don’t open that thing.
Locke: What? What thing?
Walt: Just don’t open it.

Now maybe, just maybe... these touches are more important than we think. Maybe Jacob is "hiding" in Locke's body (possibly since Locke's birth) after all... Richard was there at Locke's birth. And maybe all this time those in "the know" like Richard and Ben have been trying to get Jacob to realize and or "wake up" inside Locke's body and assume his role as island protector. It's kinda like Jacob is a moth in a cacoon not ready to fly on it's own yet, still needing time to develop in the cacoon of Locke's body. Jacob being in Locke's body was his way of protecting himself against the MIB (it was a hiding place). But Jacob also had other plans, he wants off the island and he wants somebody to take his place (probably Jack).

So... Jacob... inside Locke's body, transfer's a portion of his own essence into Walt in season 5 via Locke (aka Jeremy Bentham). Then, Jacob no longer needs Locke's body and not long after that moment Locke is killed by Ben in the dreary LA hotel. Later Locke's body is transported back to the island in a coffin.

Now...
The MIB thinks that Jacob is fully dead. BOTH versions (Locke and Statue foot Jacob) being killed by Ben (one in the statue and one in the old hotel in LA). Locke thinks he is now completely in charge, no more Jacob anywhere. But Jacob lives in Walt and maybe (just maybe) he lives in some way in the rest of our losties who Jacob touched and maybe, just maybe... that's why he wants them all dead!

So maybe Walt will still play a important role in the LOST finale event!

Do I "buy" any of this??? Of course not!!! Bu that's what's fun about theories!!!

 

[Poly]

Zoo said earlier in a post (too lazy to go back and find it to quote) something about checking on all the lost theories on the net almost puts you in a whirlwind. I hear ya!! I realized a while back that I had absolutely no reason to continue torturing myself by googling "LOST theories". I can get plenty of torture just staying right here.

Seriously, you guys amaze me and exhaust me at the same time. I feel like I have to make sure I'm in the right mental position to take on all ya'll's theories after every show. But it's so fun and excruciating! I make myself read every theory carefully, judging which I feel to be right/wrong. I feel like I'm in a canoe rowing, getting off course but you guys' insights and catches and theories and "what about this" and "what about that" is just enough to possibly keep me somewhat on the shaky course.

Ya'll are just genious, I tell ya!

I will say this... the actor who plays Locke (Terry O'Quinn) is normally a brilliant actor. Yet that scene when he is mumbling in the hospital bed was dreadful. So dreadful in fact that I wonder if it was intentionally bad. The entire ALT reality seems to be different, I'm not sure if it's intentional or not but I hope it is because some of the scenes in the ALT seem very poorly done.

I'm so glad you pointed this out. Terry O'Quinn is such a good actor that I think there is no way that the writers/producers or O'Quinn would allow such a bad scene. (And it was bad. Couldn't they at least afford a lemon to stick some juice in his eye or something so we could see just a little wetness?) At first I thought, "well, it's close to the end and maybe they're tired and have lost their motivation" and then I went :duh: NO WAY!

They wanted it to look that way on purpose. Not sure exactly what the purpose is but I'm convinced they knew what they were doing.

You keep calling him "Gin" instead of "Jin." :rotfl:

Have you been drinking? :think:

:chuckle:

How else can you guys come up with this stuff if you don't toss a few back during the show? :cheers:

Here's another thought. This one is short.

:ha:

Yeah right!

Good one! :rotfl:

 

[The Graphite]

WOW. This theory blew my mind. This is not mine, but I couldn't not post it here. (Link below.) Most Lost theories are 95% conjecture and pure imagination and "what if" and "like, it could be!" This guy has done his homework, makes a logical and orderly case, and has multiple arguments with evidence.

What shocks and disappoints me the most is the fact that, considering Ben is my favorite character on the whole show, yet I never saw this. It's brilliant. It should have been mine!

http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2010/05/ben-is-secret-agent-for-jacob-by-lamech.html?success

Now, I want to go turn the donkey wheel, take it off its axis, skip through time to yesterday so I can post this before him!

Ben is a Secret Agent for Jacob

Ever since Ben stabbed Jacob we have been led to believe that Ben never met Jacob before or even knew anything of Jacob's plans. That all this time Ben had been lying about everything in order to maintain his power as the leader of the Others. But I think this is wrong. I believe that Ben did know Jacob and in fact Jacob secretly set up a plan with Ben to murder him in order to put everyone one in the dark so that Ben could move like a secret agent through out both camps. It's sort of like how Dumbledore hatched his own death with Snape in that Snape was the one who "killed" him so that Snape could be a secret agent for the good guys.

The clues as to Ben being on Jacob's side are as follows;

1. We've been hearing all season that you can't kill MIB or Jacob if you let either one talk to you first before you stab them. And yet Jacob talked to Ben first before Ben stabbed him and Ben's knife was still able to do the deed. How is this possible? Could it be that Jacob allowed Ben to stab him?

2. If Ben has always been out of the loop, how did he know about the rules" when he said after Alex had been shot, "He changed the rules?"

3. We've been hearing that the reason Ben killed Jacob was because Jacob's wishes led to Alex's death as well as Ben losing his role as the Others' leader. However, it had been three years since Alex's death and Ben giving up leadership to Locke since he met Jacob under the foot. As we've seen the moment Ben jumped to Tunisia, he hasn't exactly been out of power. As he told Miles, he still commanded people off the Island as well as have millions of dollars just sitting around at his disposal. Ben still has power. He may not have been leader of the people on the Island but off the Island he could still get people to do what he wanted, so much so that he was able to find a way to walk right into Widmore's bedroom in the middle of the night and threaten him.

If he was truly fed up with Jacob as he seemed to be, why did he continue to do his work off the Island? Why not say, "Frak this. You cost me my job and my daughter, Jacob. I quit!" the moment he jumped to regular world and go and live on his own private island? Again, he had the power and the money.

A hint to the reason for this is given in the flashsideways between Dr. Ben and the principal. If we think of the principal as a Jacob figure than the first conversation they have outside the classroom takes on a whole knew meaning;

When the flashsideways start, Ben is talking about Napoleon, which is a nod to what had happened to Ben in the real world. Then Reynolds comes and tells Ben that he has been rescheduled.;

REYNOLDS: Linus, there is slight schedule shift. I am going to need you to supervise after school detention today.
BEN: What?
REYNOLDS: In fact, all week. Cut backs, budget crisis, events about your pay grade. Needless to say, some of us around going to have pull double duty.
BEN: We have history club today. Those kids need me.
REYNOLDS: There are five students in history club, Linus. They'll live.
BEN: Shouldn't we be encouraging the ones with ambition?
REYNOLDS: Spare me. The club isn't for them. It's for you. It makes you feel needed. Unfortunately, for now you're needed...in detention. Thanks for your understanding, Linus.
BEN: ...It's 'Doctor' Linus, actually.


Now if the theory is true, that the flashsideways is a glimpse of the real world plot, then you can suggest that Reynolds is Jacob and History Club is The Others, namely Otherton. Ben is looking after Otherton just like Alt!Ben is looking after the History Club. And here comes Jacob telling him that he's needed else where like Reynolds telling Alt!Ben he is needed in detention. (Funny how off the Island, Ben watched over the Oceanic 6 like a hawk as if he were in detention. He even said to Sun and Jack that they had no idea what he has been through to protect them.) Ben doesn't want to leave the Island. He thinks he is needed as Other leader. Jacob tells him that the Otherton leader was more for his own benefit. The Others will be fine without him. Ben is needed elsewhere. Just like Reynolds telling Alt!Ben the history club is for his own ego and that he needed elsewhere.

Then fast forward to Ben in the teachers' lounge with Artz. Ben is complaining about how Reynolds doesn't get what the public school system is about; "Taking care of the kids. That's what is important."

In the next table, Locke says, "Maybe you should be the principal."

"So says the substitute," snaps Artz. (Oh, that's real subtle, writers.)

Locke goes on how Ben sounds like he cares about this place, "And if the man in charge doesn't, maybe it's time for a change."

Ben responds, "Who is going to listen to me?"

Locke raises his hand. "I'm listening."

Now if we represent the school as The Island, then Ben complaining about Reynolds can be seen as how Jacob uses everyone as pawns. And that the real point of the Island is to take care of everyone and the Island, itself. Which only works, again, if Ben has been under Jacob's influence all this time.

Then fast forward to Not!Locke telling real world Ben that he wants Ben to in charge of the Island once he is gone.

BEN: Me?
NOT!LOCKE: I can't think of a better man for the job.

So, like the teacher's lounge, Not!Locke is tempting Ben to turn away from Jacob with the offer of power. Not to mention that Not!Locke freeing a shackled Ben can be seen as being symbolic of Ben being chained to Jacob, that is, without a free will, only then to released. And now Ben has a choice and he chose Jacob.

Think about it, Not!Locke offered him power and Ben still chose to be on Jacob's side.

Why? Because he's Jacob's man.

 

[zoo22]

I think it's good theory. But what do you think about Widmore saying "I know what you are, boy."

 

[zoo22]

Some of you may have seen it already, but I haven't yet, and I'm dying to see this last episode of LOST. Tomorrow...

 

[Lucky]

They've had 5 and a half years to explain the genesis of the smoke monster and the best they could come up with is that his brother tossed him into a well-lit cave? Yawn!

 

[zoo22]

They've had 5 and a half years to explain the genesis of the smoke monster and the best they could come up with is that his brother tossed him into a well-lit cave? Yawn!

Ugh. That "sentiment" doesn't bode well for me who hasn't seen it yet, but has been looking forward to it...

 

[Aurora3]

But what happened to the light. When they went to put Sayid in the water @ the temple to save him - hadn't it gone away? What's happening with the island?

 

[chatmaggot]

When Jacobs and the MIB "mother" took them to the glowing cave I was fully expecting to see a rainbow, a leprechaun, and a pot of gold to be sitting there. That was pretty bad.

Last nights episode was a let down to me. It's almost like LOST is getting worse as it gets to the end. I wonder if the writers had a contest titled "Write an episode of LOST" and the winner was chosen and that was last nights episode.

 

[zoo22]

When Jacobs and the MIB "mother" took them to the glowing cave I was fully expecting to see a rainbow, a leprechaun, and a pot of gold to be sitting there. That was pretty bad.

Last nights episode was a let down to me. It's almost like LOST is getting worse as it gets to the end. I wonder if the writers had a contest titled "Write an episode of LOST" and the winner was chosen and that was last nights episode.

LOL.

I haven't see it yet...

But your cinching my fears.

 

[zoo22]

I'm just taking a break in the episode, to stop and say... This is awful.

Like, really, disturbingly bad.

 

[chickenman]

When Jacobs and the MIB "mother" took them to the glowing cave I was fully expecting to see a rainbow, a leprechaun, and a pot of gold to be sitting there. That was pretty bad.

Last nights episode was a let down to me. It's almost like LOST is getting worse as it gets to the end. I wonder if the writers had a contest titled "Write an episode of LOST" and the winner was chosen and that was last nights episode.

I agree. The good part about the episode was the very end, when we got to see who the bones of "Adam and Eve" really belonged to, and how that forces us to try to figure out what that means for the MIB we've seen in all these episodes.

 

[chatmaggot]

Since it seems that dead people just pop up...and not all dead people are manifestations of the smoke monster...what makes people come back?

And another thing...last nights episode only explained the history between Jacob and the MIB...but not the origen of the Island's mystery. All it did was to push it back to someone else (the crazy lady). She obviously grew tired of protecting the Island, which is why she thanked the MIB for killing her, but it doesn't explain why she was protecting the secret cave of light. It only caused more questions (who did she inherit it from or if she was the first how does she know what the danger of the secret cave of light is).

I think they could have told the story of last night episode as a few flashbacks within a better story.

Oh well...I'm still excited for the remaining episodes.

 

[The Graphite]

I think it's good theory. But what do you think about Widmore saying "I know what you are, boy."

I think that Widmore is out for himself, and Jacob allowed him to be banished because he was serving his own best interests rather than those of Jacob and the island.

The funny thing about this theory, to me, is that ever since Ben "repented" to Ilana, I have been telling people that this could go either of two ways:

Either Ben goes all the way to the end of the show proving he's a good guy, so his repentance is real, and I would really love that after all that he had done..... OR his repentance was a sham and he's still pulling the wool over everyone's eyes and he's still a villain, and I'd love that even more! I'd be happy either way.

But with this theory, the great thing is that both would be half true! He'd still be pulling a con on everyone AND he'd be a good guy! He has been saying since Season 2 that he is the good guy! Over and over and over again, he's tried to tell us that he and the Others are the "good guys." And of course we didn't believe him.

The only hole I can think of in this theory is Mile's reading of Jacob's ashes, saying Jacob's last thoughts were that he hoped he was wrong about Ben. However, I don't think that's 100% proof, because Jacob could have foreseen that Miles might (or definitely would) read his ashes later and so he willed himself to have that thought right before he died, to make the hoax possible.

I guess we'll see! One thing seems certain... my long-time theory that Jacob & MIB are the same person is obviously debunked!

 

[Nathon Detroit]

WOW. This theory blew my mind. This is not mine, but I couldn't not post it here. (Link below.) Most Lost theories are 95% conjecture and pure imagination and "what if" and "like, it could be!" This guy has done his homework, makes a logical and orderly case, and has multiple arguments with evidence.

So the theory is that Ben wanted to be "the guy" and that Ben has been working with Jacob all along?

That's not really a theory. We have pretty much all knew that all along.

The only twist in the "theory" is that Jacob orchestrated his own death via Ben which has been theorized a great deal already.

I agree with much of what is in the theory but who wouldn't? It doesn't really go out on many "limbs" does it? It's basically a review of the Dr Linus episode.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Ugh. That "sentiment" doesn't bode well for me who hasn't seen it yet, but has been looking forward to it...

Keep in mind this thread is a SPOILER thread. It's where we talk about the show so.... only read this thread if you are not concerned about SPOILERS.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

They've had 5 and a half years to explain the genesis of the smoke monster and the best they could come up with is that his brother tossed him into a well-lit cave? Yawn!

Clearly there is more to the cave then that. I'm pretty sure the cave contains the suitcase from Pulp Fiction.

 

[The Graphite]

Clearly there is more to the cave then that. I'm pretty sure the cave contains the suitcase from Pulp Fiction.

So... the third mysterious, supernatural entity behind all of the other mythological figures on the island... is Marcellus Wallace?

Maybe he really IS going to go medieval on their tuchis'!

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I liked last nights episode. It brought back the intrigue that LOST is famous for... the bewilderment, the questions, the oddness.

It wasn't the best LOST episode ever but I love the escapism of LOST and for that it was fun. We got to see the beginning stages of the donkey wheel being installed (my guess is they picked that spot because they found a rope stuck in the ground leading to it).

The MIB character is a good actor, I would like to see him more in the last stages of the show. Jacob is a pretty good actor as well but it's kinda hard to judge him because they make him act like a grown up child. The lady who played their mom was just "OK", why all the hype about her? :idunno:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

So... the third mysterious, supernatural entity behind all of the other mythological figures on the island... is Marcellus Wallace?

All I can say is..... :duh: