LOST - discussion about the TV series LOST. ** SPOILER ALERT **

[The Graphite]

Jack is a back surgeon, Locke, in real life, is paralyzed because of a back injury.

Thank you. I knew that and forgot to mention it. Jack makes the lame to walk. Locke walked miraculously without Jack's help. Science vs faith. Both lost their lady loves because of obsession relating to their fathers. Neither has a son.

Also, the Black Rock that brought Richard, is it the same ship that Jacob and the MIB were looking at when we first met the MIB? If so, where did the storm come from? It was a clear day.

I heard that the producers clarified that the storm came up (yes, very suddenly) after that scene on the beach. Storms have appeared extremely suddenly in the past, and the producers have also stated that storms are an important symbol on the island, alluding to the idea that the storm likely wasn't natural.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I heard that the producers clarified that the storm came up (yes, very suddenly) after that scene on the beach. Storms have appeared extremely suddenly in the past, and the producers have also stated that storms are an important symbol on the island, alluding to the idea that the storm likely wasn't natural.

I had not heard that yet, that's interesting.

I had assumed that maybe the Black Rock had passed by the island on a previous trip which would have explained the log book that Widmore purchased at auction in a earlier season. I guess, now we can assume that somebody else took the log book from the Black Rock and brought it to the "other" world where it was later put up for auction.

 

[Adam]

That must have been some wave to bring the Black Rock through the statue and into the jungle.

 

[Adam]

THEORY!!!!!!

The question is often asked "What lies in the shadow of the statue?"

What one conjures up is an object/item lying at the base of the statue.

What if someone else is meant? What if it means that something is lying (as in being deceitful)? What if Jacob/MIB is not a person but a thing? A program? A computer? And that thing/program/computer is lying about something?

 

[Newman]

THEORY!!!!!!

The question is often asked "What lies in the shadow of the statue?"

What one conjures up is an object/item lying at the base of the statue.

What if someone else is meant? What if it means that something is lying (as in being deceitful)? What if Jacob/MIB is not a person but a thing? A program? A computer? And that thing/program/computer is lying about something?

Ilana said Jacob was like a father to her. Father figures are hardly objects... and she knows "what lies in the shadow of the statue."

 

[Adam]

Ilana said Jacob was like a father to her. Father figures are hardly objects... and she knows "what lies in the shadow of the statue."

The thing lying doesn't have to be Jacob, that was one part of the theory. There could be another thing lying/being deceitful.

 

[chatmaggot]

The thing lying doesn't have to be Jacob, that was one part of the theory. There could be another thing lying/being deceitful.

Earlier in this thread, I don't remember who mentioned it, but they pointed out that the answer to the question "What lies..." was "He who...". Later, when Ben came out from the foot of the statue he lied about killing Jacob.

Question: "What lies..."?

Answer: "He..."

Who is "he" that lied?: He, that is, Benjamin Linus lied.

After reading that I always thought it was interesting and perhaps relevant.

 

[zoo22]

This is what I told my wife the very first show in Season 1, that they are all dead and in hell.

They're not dead, not in hell.

Consider Jacob's saying, "Think of this wine as what you keep calling hell. There are many other names for it: Malevolence, evil, darkness..." That seems a fairly clear pointer? I also think his saying that to Richard directly addresses a lot of the religious aspects of/ theories regarding the show.

I don't think it's hell. I think it's some weird purgatory narrative in which each character is tested one last time before their judgement or something like that.

Not purgatory (which would mean they're dead) either. Being tested, yes, I agree. I don't think it's necessarily "one last time." Although I think we have seen that "last time' judgement made by Smokey (for example, with Mr. Eko).

I agree, definitely a good episode. For once, I felt like some of my predictions were proven correct (for now, ha).

What were (are) they?

I could be wrong here, but was this the first episode where the characters actually called the man in black the name "Man in Black"?

Yeah, it was the first time (but it was Richard's wife that had said it, through Hurley). There's got to be a reason we don't know MIB's name yet. Which leads me to think there's a good chance it's a name we know. Or then again, good chance it's just to keep us flailing around guessing in the dark.

Guys... did you watch the same episode I did??

They are NOT in hell, and they are NOT dead.

I watched the same episode.

Not and not. I agree completely. Seemed crystal clear to me.

The island isn't hell, Jacob clearly stated that point. The island is a "cork" or a blocked doorway that leads from hell to our reality.

But even if the island were hell.... and the producers were asked... "is the island hell?" What did you expect them to say? Did you expect them to giveaway the ending of the show just because some moron reporter asked them the question?? :think:

They've outright lied in the past... For example, um, said that there was no time travel. lain:

But no, I definitely don't believe it's hell.

Yeah... and the show is still not making it crystal clear as to who is good and who is bad although they certainly want us to think that the MIB is bad and Jacob is good. My guess is most people are still not convinced.

It's still also possible that Jacob and the MIB are essentially the same being (one side dark and one side light). And each side works to manipulate our Losties into doing what they want them to do without removing their freewill which seems to be a somewhat important aspect of "the rules".

They definitely both manipulate. It sure looked to me that Richard got conned by Jacob into "asking" to live forever.

I think that Jacob/MIB are either brothers or were children together. I think that the "you can't kill him" kid who unLocke saw was Jacob, and that there's another similar kid that was MIB. I think maybe they were "special" (like Walt), and in addition to their "specialness," through the course of the (thousands of?) years became able to control/use the island's powers to a certain extent.

Maybe Jacob took MIB's persona. Similar to MIB taking Locke. I mean, If (real) Locke had a voice, wouldn't he say pretty much the same thing about MIB as MIB is saying about Jacob? "He took my body, my humanity."

It'd make sense applied to Locke saying to Jack at the airport, "They didn't lose your father, they just lost his body."

Similarly, MIB's still there, even though his body's gone. It must be somewhere? He said Jacob took it. Where'd it go?

But I don't know, maybe they somehow did split from the same person.

Also, I figure this Richard episode is when Jacob's "candidate" thing started. Richard was the first time MIB used someone to try to kill Jacob, and Jacob clearly realized that he'd need a replacement for himself for when MIB eventually succeeded. So he started his NBA draft candidate system.

I heard that the producers clarified that the storm came up (yes, very suddenly) after that scene on the beach. Storms have appeared extremely suddenly in the past, and the producers have also stated that storms are an important symbol on the island, alluding to the idea that the storm likely wasn't natural.

And the time off the island is offset from time on the island. Remember freighter doctor Ray washing up dead on the island shore well before he was actually killed on the freighter and thrown overboard?

I will say though, that the ship sure seemed pretty close to shore (as opposed to the freighter, which couldn't be seen from the island), and while in the storm the crew were obviously seeing the statue for the first time. Seemed pushing it. Pushing it at least as much as a wooden boat crashing head-on into a stone statue and the boat coming out on top seems pushing it. lain:

But okay, okay, whatever, I'll buy it.

Looking forward to the Sun/Jin episode. As I'd said, I have a feeling they're not husband & wife in the sideways LA world.

 

[Adam]

Earlier in this thread, I don't remember who mentioned it, but they pointed out that the answer to the question "What lies..." was "He who...". Later, when Ben came out from the foot of the statue he lied about killing Jacob.

Question: "What lies..."?

Answer: "He..."

Who is "he" that lied?: He, that is, Benjamin Linus lied.

After reading that I always thought it was interesting and perhaps relevant.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Your idea is :banned:

 

[zoo22]

In other zooLOST news, I listened to a podcast that came just a few days ago reviewing/recapping the Sawyer episode, and finally someone talked about what I've been saying about the "Hollywooding" of the episode/hotel scene... That it was suspiciously over-the-top fake. The overdone quality, the unrealistic scenario (sleeping with the woman in a bugged room, with a bunch of cops outside the door), the feeling that it was a set... They even pointed out Sawyer's "Hollywood" mug as a possible tip-off.

They also pointed out that when Miles and the "LA/Miami Vice" patrol busted in, the scene we saw through the door showed the back of the MOTEL sign, reversed, as if we were on the other side of the looking glass. And something I didn't notice at all, which is that not only did the clock say "8:42" (that I noticed), it didn't change.

They theorized that the scene, among other things, was an intentional way of 1) pushing that "what you're seeing doesn't have to be what you're really seeing," 2) prepping us to "break the wall down."

They said it's" reeking, reeking of being a contrived situation."

Anyway, whether true or not, I'm glad I'm not the only one. (Super-geek that is).

 

[The Graphite]

In other zooLOST news, I listened to a podcast that came just a few days ago reviewing/recapping the Sawyer episode, and finally someone talked about what I've been saying about the "Hollywooding" of the episode/hotel scene... That it was suspiciously over-the-top fake. The overdone quality, the unrealistic scenario (sleeping with the woman in a bugged room, with a bunch of cops outside the door), the feeling that it was a set... They even pointed out Sawyer's "Hollywood" mug as a possible tip-off.

They also pointed out that when Miles and the "LA/Miami Vice" patrol busted in, the scene we saw through the door showed the back of the MOTEL sign, reversed, as if we were on the other side of the looking glass. And something I didn't notice at all, which is that not only did the clock say "8:42" (that I noticed), it didn't change.

They theorized that the scene, among other things, was an intentional way of 1) pushing that "what you're seeing doesn't have to be what you're really seeing," 2) prepping us to "break the wall down."

They said it's" reeking, reeking of being a contrived situation."

Anyway, whether true or not, I'm glad I'm not the only one. (Super-geek that is).

I concur. There is something very hinky about the alt universe.

 

[zoo22]

I concur. There is something very hinky about the alt universe.

As you probably know Graphite, the producers/writers have said the LA sideways is very important, and they've said to pay close attention to the details. It goes without saying that you need to pay attention to the details in LOST, but maybe rather than the typical LOST symbolism clues, in this case, they mean details like "Wait a sec ... Something's just wrong here?"

I'd love that it turned out that was true (and otherwise, LOST became a full-on soap opera while I wasn't looking).

I figure the "realities" have got to begin merging together within the next few episodes. I think that soon, LA folks will start "remembering" bits of what's happened on the island. Which might mean them remembering the (a) future.

 

[zoo22]

Okay, I'll start dropping some random LOST thoughts I'm randomly thinking. Note these aren't necessarily things I think are true. Just some zoo LOST thoughts. As most of my thoughts are.

A lot of folks are saying that the cave isn't actually Jacob's but is MIB's. But I haven't noticed anyone speculating that the lighthouse isn't Jacob's? Just a thought.

 

[Town Heretic]

As you probably know Graphite, the producers/writers have said the LA sideways is very important, and they've said to pay close attention to the details....

I suspect...suspect, mind you, that the whole point of the LA sideways bit is to set up what will be the mother, father and second cousin of all chase scenes between Sawyer and the MIB...or Jacob...or Kate... Certainly not Hurley if there's a footrace at any point--the last show being two hours...unless they mean to dedicate half of it to the heroic efforts of Jack in reviving him.

Which could allow for a medical series spin-off, but that seems far fetched.

At any rate I'm almost certain there will be a chase. And maybe an earthquake spawning a possible tsunami, which would then threaten the island...where, at the very last, we'll learn dinosaurs were being cloned by comic and lovable new age hippies of the alternate universe's Dharma and Greg initiative.

Whazzit? :freak:

 

[zoo22]

I suspect...suspect, mind you, that the whole point of the LA sideways bit is to set up what will be the mother, father and second cousin of all chase scenes between Sawyer and the MIB...or Jacob...or Kate... Certainly not Hurley if there's a footrace at any point--the last show being two hours...unless they mean to dedicate half of it to the heroic efforts of Jack in reviving him.

Which could allow for a medical series spin-off, but that seems far fetched.

At any rate I'm almost certain there will be a chase. And maybe an earthquake spawning a possible tsunami, which would then threaten the island...where, at the very last, we'll learn dinosaurs were being cloned by comic and lovable new age hippies of the alternate universe's Dharma and Greg initiative.

Whazzit? :freak:

There was that recent Bullitt reference...

 

[Yorzhik]

I thought the idea of Jacob drowning Richard was a great example of "if your worldview can be falsified in a few seconds, you should re-think your worldview". Brilliant scene.

 

[The Graphite]

I thought the idea of Jacob drowning Richard was a great example of "if your worldview can be falsified in a few seconds, you should re-think your worldview". Brilliant scene.

Ha! That's awesome. And I loved how Jacob did that. What away to prove a point. "Because I want to live!"

Well then, you're not dead, now, are you?

 

[The Graphite]

Darn! The Lost Theories Blog website isn't accepting theories for the time being, because they were receiving too many. So I'm going to post this here and keep it saved until I can post it there, too.

There is something extremely hinky about the ALT timeline. It is not right. It's not genuine. Yes, I realize it is "just as real as the island timeline" according to Lindelof and Cuse (the creators). But something about it just doesn't jibe.

I think they started with very subtle things about it at first, virtually impossible to notice, but have been ramping up this impression of the ALT being somehow over the top and unbelievable, and in "Recon," they decided to push it over the top. (And notice how the feel of Locke's episode was very different from Ben's episode, even though they both have Locke. As a person, Locke isn't really the same person deep down. In his own episode, he is the single-but-engaged guy who is struggling with his manhood (spiritually speaking; keep your mind out of the gutter), trying to find his place in life, and striving to accept who he is in the eyes of the woman he loves, etc. But, in Ben's episode, he is a subtle tempter, a sneaky devil-on-the-shoulder very lightly pushing Ben to become the schemer he had been on the island. Literarily, he is not the same character, even though he has the same face (same actor, obviously) and has the same mannerisms (same personality, on the surface). But as a person, as a character, a completely different function and purpose and motivation. Under the surface, it's not the same Locke.

Kate's episode with Claire came off to me almost like an episode of General Hospital, with its soap-opera dramas and unlikely scenarios. The Jack episode reminded me of the "after school special" genre with the dad and son reconciling in the end under a mountain of velveeta cheese. "I love you, son! You could never fail in my eyes! You could bomb the Twin Towers, and sacrifice kittens, but you'd be A-OK in my book!" Oh boy...

And now with "Recon," it's just too much. An undercover cop actually sleeping with a "person of interest" in an ongoing investigation WHILE a bunch of cops are just outside the door listening and watching? COME ON! Ridiculous! And then on Sawyer's desk we see a mug that says "Hollywood." (This was pointed out by someone else here.) Uh huh... hint hint. This is like some cheesy, prime-time police action drama with over-the-top scenarios. Right down to the cliche "cop punching the mirror in the precinct bathroom" scene. Gosh, haven't seen that in about 87 different cop shows and cop movies. I just can't buy it. It's a fantasy world for Sawyer. Not like real life.

All of this is starting to seriously make me wonder if these people aren't even in the same timeline/universe as each other. The Locke in the Locke episode is one universe, whereas the Locke in Ben's episode is different. It's not just one sideways timeline. It's one for each of them. And Kate has her own timeline. Sawyer has his own timeline in which he runs into his own Kate. etc. I hope that's not too confusing. Do they each get their own private little dream universe in which to resolve their issues?

Don't get me wrong; there is a purpose to all of this. The ALT is hugely important. I'm not criticizing it at all. I find it gripping, although not in the way most people do. And I think the people who don't like the ALT timeline simply aren't getting the deeper aspect of it -- namely that there is something not right about this world, and pretty soon it's all going to come crashing down like a house of cards. Don't believe what you see in the ALT. There's some smoke and mirrors going on here (no pun intended), and I think when the truth is revealed and the story is resolved, we'll be blown away. I am a huge fan of non-linear stories, but TPTB in this case are weaving an amazingly complex story that breaks the boundaries of previous non-linear shows and blazes new trails in storytelling. Once it's over, people will see how revolutionary it is and will be blown away, imho.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I agree Graphite. We have been saying since the start of season 6 that the "ALT" time line is more than just different, it's.... well.... different! Different than any other "flash back", "flash forward", or even "flash sideways".

Last night I watched the Expose episode from season 3 where they flashed back to Nikki's back story which started with her ULTRA cheesy TV show "Expose". This "ALT" time line doesn't feel a whole lot different than that.

Hurley, had once mentioned that since he was sent back in time he could write The Empire Strikes Back and sell it to George Lucas. :chuckle: It almost makes you wonder if this "ALT" timeline isn't Hurley's creation in some way. Maybe a TV show or movie that he wrote based on his Island buddies. Although... that doesn't really make sense to me and if the "ALT" timeline turned out to be a TV show or movie I think I would be disappointing, yet I must say.... the writer's of LOST are very skilled and I have no doubt they would figure out a way to pull it off.

However....

If I had to place a bet I would say the "ALT" timeline is wacky and weird because it's an anomaly in time and possibly it's missing some key element that makes it rational and normal. I agree with Graphite when he said that it will come crashing down in some dramatic way.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

The best thing about LOST???

The show doesn't take itself too seriously. The writers know that some of the stuff they are putting in these episodes is so far out of the scope of what the audience is prepared to believe that they let us in on the "joke" by having the characters say the stuff we are thinking in our heads.

For instance.... in Expose we are suddenly given the back story to a couple characters (Nikki and Palo) who up until then were little more than extras. To ease the audiences mind Sawyer repeatably asks.... "who are you people???" :rotfl:

And in season 5 Miles and Hurley have the hilarious conversation about time travel and the irrational consequences of it. Classic stuff!

As I re-watch the show with my nieces I realize that the first time I watched the series I sorta overlooked how funny LOST is.

The dialog, the acting, and the humorous nature of the show make it one of the best TV shows ever created. Fun stuff!