ECT "Lordship 'Salvation'"-perverting the gospel of Christ

[Cross Reference]

It is the same today.

We can fail, as Abraham did, and we do fail as Abraham did, but God's promise does not fail and cannot fail.

Did Abraham fail? If the promise given Abraham, the friend of God, is yet to be fulfilled, how is it you suppose he failed by his life lived unto God? Do you think there could be another lesson in the account of his relationship with God that might be overlooked?

 

[lifeisgood]

Did Abraham fail?

Yes, Abraham failed originally, he produced Ishmael.

If the promise given Abraham is yet to be fulfilled, how is it you suppose he failed God?

The promise given Abraham has been fulfilled, God produced Isaac.

 

[lifeisgood]

Do you think there could be another lesson in the account of his relationship with God that might be overlooked?

Sorry I missed this.

There are many lessons from the account. A few that comes to my mind:
Let us not be wise in our own eyes --- we produce Ishmael.

Let us believe that God says what He means and means what He says --- next year at this time, Isaac will come.

Let us understand that God's promise comes with God's time attached to it and not ours.

Let us wait for God's time it matters not how long it takes, what He has promised to us, He will fulfill but it will be in His time and not ours.

 

[Cross Reference]

Sorry I missed this.

There are many lessons from the account. A few that comes to my mind:
Let us not be wise in our own eyes --- we produce Ishmael.

True but that is us, not Abraham who had the law to support his decision. The difference being the law for him was an outside influence ordained of God, that could not 'check' thinking that permitted his decision. For us it is the indwelling Christ Jesus. When He checks our spirit, we must obey. God had to bless Ishmael . . and Abraham, for more than one reason.

 

[God's Truth]

However, Abraham was NOT a Jew.

Abraham was a Jew. A Jew is someone blood related to Abraham and one who OBEYS GOD.

 

[God's Truth]

Listen to yourself, you do not make sense.
You INSIST that a person OBEYS and because they OBEY they then BELIEVE.

I do not say that. I say we have to BELIEVE AND OBEY. I also say that if someone is not sure, then they can obey they will BE SURE. Jesus will give them understanding.

That is what the Bible says. See John 7:17.

 

[lifeisgood]

True but that is us

Sorry I misunderstood your question when you asked if there were other lessons to learn from Abraham's account.

...not Abraham who had the law to support his decision.

No, Abraham did not have a law or the law.

The difference being the law for him was an outside influence ordained of God, that could not 'check' thinking that permitted his decision.

Sure he could 'check' thinking. Abraham could speak directly to God Himself and make sure that what he (Abraham) was about to do (Hagar) was correct or not; however, Abraham chose to go his own way and not go 'check' with God about it.

For us it is the indwelling Christ Jesus.

Through His Holy Spirit.

When He checks our spirit, we must obey.

Yes, we must obey; otherwise, exactly like Abraham, we will suffer the consequences of our disobedience of His check in our spirit and bring those consequences to others as well.

I used to teach my children, and now they repeat my same words to their children, 'When you do something wrong remember that you are dirtying our (notice 'our') last name, and all of us (notice 'us') pay for the consequences of your (notice 'your') wrong doing.' I got that from Abraham's disobedience.

God had to bless Ishmael . . and Abraham, for more than one reason.

Yes, however, it is because of Him and not because of them.

 

[God's Truth]

I am being falsely judged by lifeisgood, so one would think he/she would do a better job at knowing exactly what I believe.

 

[God's Truth]

Indeed. gt makes to be legal connotation rather than something of the will of a man, as in a man obey's when or if he believes, "believes" being the operative word.

There are legal connotations to a Blood Covenant.

However, where do you ever get that means it has nothing to do with the will of man?!

Where do you EVER get 'if' he believes?

 

[lifeisgood]

Abraham was a Jew. A Jew is someone blood related to Abraham and one who OBEYS GOD.

Oh, all-knowing one was Ur of the Chaldees Canaan?
Wait, maybe Ur of the Chaldees was Israel?
Or perhaps, Ur of the Chaldees was the Promised Land?

 

[God's Truth]

God promised something to Abraham that was not contingent on Abraham's obedience but on God's word;

The promise would NOT have been given to ABRAHAM if HE DID NOT OBEY!

Genesis 26:4-5 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."


If Abraham would not have believed AND OBEYED---the promise would not have come to ABRAHAM, but the promise would still come---just NOT TO ABRAHAM.

Just like the promise does NOT COME TO YOU, or anyone, unless they believe and OBEY.

 

[lifeisgood]

I am being falsely judged by lifeisgood, so one would think he/she would do a better job at knowing exactly what I believe.

Oh, stop crying and grow a thick skin, gt.

I can only know exactly what you BELIEVE by what YOU yourself WRITE.

 

[God's Truth]

Oh, stop crying and grow a thick skin, gt.

I can only know exactly what you BELIEVE by what YOU yourself WRITE.

You don't get to stab me in the back and make me be quiet about it. Stop judging me. Who are YOU to tell me to grow up and grow thick skin; as if I am a baby with thin skin.

 

[Right Divider]

You do not have any understanding of the truth and what is spiritual.

How can one person be so consistently WRONG? You are WRONG again.

 

[God's Truth]

John 8:37 — I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
John 8:39 — Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

That is about being true descendants of Abraham if you OBEY.

They wanted to kill Jesus.

God says do not kill.

 

[lifeisgood]

The promise would NOT have been given to ABRAHAM if HE DID NOT OBEY!

Genesis 26:4-5 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."

If Abraham would not have believed AND OBEYED---the promise would not have come to ABRAHAM, but the promise would still come---just NOT TO ABRAHAM.

Just like the promise does NOT COME TO YOU, or anyone, unless they believe and OBEY.

You have filled your thinking with so much fog, you cannot see the tree for the forest.

Had it NOT BEEN for God's promise being fulfilled depending on God alone plus absolutely nothing else added to it, you and I would not be talking about Abraham being the father of justification by faith alone, by faith alone, apart from any works, for when Abraham worked all he could produce was Ishmael for which WORK we are still feeling all the consequences of it and when Abraham STOPPED WORKING, then God produced the promise which was Isaac.

 

[God's Truth]

You, gt, can SPEAK all you want, the UNsaved also speaks.

The sad part is that your SPEAK cannot translate in OBEYING ALL Jesus said to do, that you so vociferously declare you do practice and then you sheepishly say 'well, no, I, gt, do NOT PRACTICE that one, no, I, gt, cannot obey that one', but 'I, gt, OBEY EVERYTHING Jesus said.'

Oh, foolish one, who has bewitched you?

I obey what Jesus tells all of us to do. You just do not have understanding because YOU ADMIT YOU OBEY NOTHING.

 

[God's Truth]

Lifeisgood says he/she does NOT OBEY ANYTHING.

Jesus says he gives understanding to those who obey.

Want scripture numbers?

 

[lifeisgood]

You don't get to stab me in the back and make me be quiet about it. Stop judging me. Who are YOU to tell me to grow up and grow thick skin; as if I am a baby with thin skin.

Oh, grow up, gt. You are beginning to sound as a child having a tantrum.
I have done absolutely nothing behind your back, much less stab you in the back.

I do not judge your heart for only God can do that, HOWEVER, I do judge YOUR false doctrine, which God says I am to do and I do mark you as preaching false doctrine that you OBEYED and then God saved you because you OBEYED. Like or not, gt, that is false doctrine and that is rejecting Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary.

 

[God's Truth]

Oh, grow up, gt. You are beginning to sound as a child having a tantrum.
I have done absolutely nothing behind your back, much less stab you in the back.

I do not judge your heart for only God can do that, HOWEVER, I do judge YOUR false doctrine, which God says I am to do and I do mark you as preaching false doctrine that you OBEYED and then God saved you because you OBEYED. Like or not, gt, that is false doctrine and that is rejecting Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary.

Just debate me and stop with the personal insults. Is that too hard for you?

I think it is hard for you because you do not have Truth to defend you.