ECT "Lordship 'Salvation'"-perverting the gospel of Christ

[john w]

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

And? Thanks for, as usual, making no point, and not knowing the "argument" that I was addressing:

"The law was for righteousness,..."-"god"suntruth


the law is not made for a righteous man,


And you quote Romans 10:4-5 KJV, w/o a clue of Paul's point.

In Romans 10:5 KJV, Paul is referencing the Leviticus 18:5 KJV principle, the passage in the context of requiring 100% compliance/obedience. Survey Lev. 18:2 KJV, Galatians 3:12 KJV, Exodus 20:1-17 KJV

Paul's hypothetical point: If one were able to perform all that the law requires, with "no grading on the curve," i.e., 100% compliance,it will lead to life.


But Paul later poses mankind's dilemma-no one, save one, is able to live up to the righteous requirements of the law, and the law provides no power to achieve its demands-it is a "back breaker," as it was in Exodus(slavery analogy). It was never meant as a way to merit God's favor, but as a means to show us what is holy, good.....and what sin is..

Survey Romans 3:19 ff KJV=you are all guilty....shut up....fess up...you come short..

Survey Romans 3:10 KJV, Mark 10:18 KJV, Mt. 19:17 KJV, Luke 18:19 KJVJ= only God alone is "good.".

Paul-100% compliance required, per Galatians 5:3 KJV

Thus, only the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the whole law....


Thus...The righteousness that is by faith - Romans 10:6-8 KJV

vs. "the righteousness that is by the law," Gal. 2:21 KJV, as Paul contrasts it with "the righteousness that is by faith, Romans 2:26-27 KJV, Romans 9:30 KJV, Galatians 2:16 KJV, Galatians 5:5 KJV.

 

[God's Truth]

And? Thanks for, as usual, making no point, and not knowing the "argument" that I was addressing:

"The law was for righteousness,..."-"god"suntruth


the law is not made for a righteous man,


And you quote Romans 10:4-5 KJV, w/o a clue of Paul's point.

The law was not made for a righteous man because righteous people do what is right naturally.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

And? Thanks for, as usual, making no point, and not knowing the "argument" that I was addressing:

"The law was for righteousness,..."-"god"suntruth


the law is not made for a righteous man,


And you quote Romans 10:4-5 KJV, w/o a clue of Paul's point.

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

One needs be more discerning of what the word "law" means in each instance of its use.

According to the above verse the law was once for the righteous.

LA

 

[God's Truth]

Vs.

1 Timothy 1:9 KJV knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Contrasts.

Those who are righteous do what is right without having to look it up in the books.

However, all scripture is God breathed and useful for training in righteousness.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

 

[john w]

The law was not made for a righteous man because righteous people do what is right naturally.

As usual, like LALaw, you missed it. The righteous man here is those who have been declared righteous, by trusting in the dbr as the sole solution to the sin/sins issue. We(members of the boc-not you), saints, are not under the jurisdiction of the law.

You, a lost person, is the person for whom the law applies.



1 Timothy 1:9 KJV knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

you=for sinners

 

[Danoh]

Romans 9 is the issue who of Abraham's PHYSICAL seed is ALSO of his SPIRITUAL seed.

Those who have Abraham's faith toward God.

In Galatians the assertion is that Gentiles in the flesh who believe are also exercising Abraham's faith toward God.

Abraham had believed God when he was in Uncircumcision.

Thus, he is also the spiritual father of those Gentiles when they believe, for they are believing just as Abraham had - when he was in UNcircumcision.

And that was BEFORE the Covenants beyond the first one: which was the promise of a seed - Christ.

Whereas believing Israelites BEFORE Israel's fall, were, first of all, the result of that later aspect of the Covenant between God and Abraham - a multiplied seed when Abraham was in Circumcision.

In Romans 9-12, that is no more. Israel has fallen, its believing Israelites have been sealed, the salvation of God has gone to the Gentiles, and any Israelite who wants to get saved now has to approach God in the same way as the Gentiles - in spiritual UNcircumcision.

Israelites are now just plain old lost Jews, just as the Gentiles - there is now no difference between them.

A Jew, as with a Gentile, is either lost, or saved, and being part of that nation now has no advantage.

Until Romans 11:25....

 

[john w]

The members of the boc's righteousness starts with the death of the Lord Jesus Christ, as the risen, ascended, glorified, and seated Lord Jesus Christ is the individual member's righteousness, as we are "in Christ," united with Him, as He has become our righteousness(1 Cor. 1:30 KJV), not the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilling the law in our place, i.e., "vicarious law keeping." The member of the boc has NADA to with the law-there is no connection.

"ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;" Rom. 7:4 KJV

Romans 7:1-7 KJV....

"1Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? "

The law has power, jurisdiction, over a man/woman, only as long as they are alive.

Paul employs marriage, as a metaphor, of how the law has jurisdiction over a person until they die. At death, the law no longer has jurisdiction/control over that person. Even if a woman is given a certificate of divorce/"divorce decree,"she is still tied to her husband, via the law, and cannot remarry, even with a divorce. Only when the husband dies, is she free to remarry, because he and she are no longer bound by/under the jurisdiction of, the law.


Light bulb?

"For ye are dead,.." Col. 3:3 KJV

A dead man is not subject to any civil, or "religious"(used generically here) law. Thus, the member of the boc, who is reckoned dead, is not subject to the law, because he/she is considered dead, risen, seated with the Lord Jesus Christ. The law has lost its authority, to bring either condemnation, or righteousness,through the "vicarious obedience/law keeping" of the Lord Jesus Christ. And therefore, Paul asserts Romans 10:4 KJV.

 

[God's Truth]

As usual, like LALaw, you missed it. The righteous man here is those who have been declared righteous, by trusting in the dbr as the sole solution to the sin/sins issue. We(members of the boc-not you), saints, are not under the jurisdiction of the law.

You, a lost person, is the person for whom the law applies.



1 Timothy 1:9 KJV knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

you=for sinners

So do you admit we have to obey Jesus or not?

You are coming closer to the truth? Maybe?

 

[God's Truth]

I believe Jesus Christ alone makes me clean and reconciled to God.

Jesus chooses whom he lives with, gives the Holy Spirit to.

Who does Jesus live with, save, and give his spirit to?

He chooses to save and live with those who obey him.

He is the Truth, the Life, and the Way.

 

[john w]

So do you admit we have to obey Jesus or not?

You are coming closer to the truth? Maybe?

Not to be acceptable to Him, as you do, you devil.

 

[Tambora]

I obey and you do not.

Why do you ask others to judge me? Others that you know do not like me and falsely judge me?

You sound like those that left it to the Jews to persecute Jesus.

You are not better than the people that had part in Jesus' crucifixion.

Matthew 27:17 So when the crowd had gathered, Pilate asked them, "Which one do you want me to release to you: Jesus Barabbas, or Jesus who is called the Messiah?"

You ask people here that you KNOW hate me. You have the spirit of one that is not right.

How about this, you keep your personal opinions about me to yourself, and speak only about the scriptures.

This site is not for you to tell others what you think about them.

I answer to God and care very little what you think of me, or what any man thinks of me.

Stop showing your hurt self by attacking everyone.

 

[Tambora]

Tambora: what do you say?

I say you are now seeing what we have had to deal with her for a long time.

 

[Derf]

I say you are now seeing what we have had to deal with her for a long time.

I understand you have a great deal of animosity toward GT, but you didn't answer my question (my fault, since I didn't word it as a question):

...if you are quoting scripture saying do everything Jesus said to do, but don't do it yourself, you don't need me to judge you, your words judge you.

Does GT do this, say to follow Jesus words, but then she doesn't follow them herself?

 

[lifeisgood]

I understand you have a great deal of animosity toward GT, but you didn't answer my question (my fault, since I didn't word it as a question):

No one here has any animosity, much less a great deal of animosity toward gt.
We have animosity against her false doctrine of 'UNbeliever has to OBEY God FIRST and then because said UNbeliever OBEY God then God will save said UNbeliever because of their work.'

Does GT do this, say to follow Jesus words, but then she doesn't follow them herself?

Unequivocally, yes.

Just this week, I asked her to obey Jesus by selling everything she has and follow Him because she said to me specifically that she OBEYS everything Jesus commanded. She responded that that commandment was not for her, then, she turns around and say that she obeys EVERYthing Jesus commanded.

So, I asked her to get out of her house and go to every nation in the world as Jesus commanded and she also said that was impossible.

So, yes, gt, says you have to obey all Jesus' commandments and then she turn right around and does NOT obey Him.

 

[God's Truth]

No one here has any animosity, much less a great deal of animosity toward gt.
We have animosity against her false doctrine of 'UNbeliever has to OBEY God FIRST and then because said UNbeliever OBEY God then God will save said UNbeliever because of their work.'

You are not speaking the truth. I do not say Jesus saves unbelievers.

I always say we have to believe and obey.

Unequivocally, yes.

Just this week, I asked her to obey Jesus by selling everything she has and follow Him because she said to me specifically that she OBEYS everything Jesus commanded. She responded that that commandment was not for her, then, she turns around and say that she obeys EVERYthing Jesus commanded.

So, I asked her to get out of her house and go to every nation in the world as Jesus commanded and she also said that was impossible.

So, yes, gt, says you have to obey all Jesus' commandments and then she turn right around and does NOT obey Him.

I obey everything Jesus tells us all to do.

Jesus does NOT tell everyone to sell their house.

Jesus does NOT tell everyone to become traveling ministers.

 

[God's Truth]

Not to be acceptable to Him, as you do, you devil.

You say not to be acceptable to Him.

You do not speak what the scriptures say.


Romans 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles. He gave me the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 2:5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

 

[lifeisgood]

You are not speaking the truth. I do not say Jesus saves unbelievers.

Absolutely, unequivocally that is EXACTLY what you say when you say the UNbeliever has to OBEY then they will be saved.

The UNbeliver will laugh in your face when you say to him/her that they need to be saved.
You have laughed in my face saying, 'rest of what? LOL'
You don't even know what Jesus' rest is all about and then you BOAST that you OBEY EVERYthing He says.

I always say we have to believe and obey.

No, you say, OBEY and then BELIEVE.

Therefore, unequivocally declaring that Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary was NOT enough to open the way to the presence of God and the UNbeliever has to OBEY so that his/her OBEDIENCE helps Jesus' finish His already finished work on the Cross of Calvary and then they can be saved because they have OBEYED and the UNbeliever has no idea of what you're talking about.

I obey everything Jesus tells us all to do.

Absolutely, unequivocally you do NOT.
You haven't even obeyed Him yet that you are to 'come to Him and He will give you His rest.'
What an UNfaithtul Jesus' servant, saying that you OBEY everyTHING He said and then you do not PRACTICE what your mouth declares.

Jesus does NOT tell everyone to sell their house.

If YOU say that you OBEY EVERYthing Jesus said, then you MUST start by selling everything that you have and follow Jesus and then go to every nation in the world and preach the Gospel; that's just for starters. You cannot pick and choose because the definition of EVERYthing is everyTHING.

Jesus does NOT tell everyone to become traveling ministers.

Then you should STOP saying that YOU OBEY EVERYthing He has said for you PRACTICE NOT what your mouth BOASTS of.
For someone who BOASTS of OBEYING everyTHING Jesus said, you are an UNfaithful servant of His.

 

[Cross Reference]

Good word! Shame it will fall on deaf ears.

 

[God's Truth]

Absolutely, unequivocally that is EXACTLY what you say when you say the UNbeliever has to OBEY then they will be saved.

No such thing as unbelievers being saved. Your core to defend false doctrine is to lie about me.

 

[God's Truth]

What else does Satan have for people to defend his false doctrine? He has lying for one thing.