Liberals win: America to become Communist/Socialist

[Gary K]

One more argument against accepting that paying taxes is charity. When I use my money to help someone they get 100% of the benefit of my resources. When paying taxes as charity the recipients get a small percentage of the money I am forced to pay to the government. Most of it goes to pay for the government bureaucracy itself. The poor get the short end of the stick and we are forced at the government's gun to pay for the most inefficient organization on earth. The government is not efficient at anything. And what's worse a lot of our taxes monies are taken through fraud for every government agency pays out millions upon millions in fraudulent payments. Thus, accepting government as an agent of charity is the worst possible option for helping people in practical terms.

edit: It's like giving money to the Clinton foundation to help the Haitians. The Clinton foundation received billions of dollars under the guise of helping Haitians. The Haitians got nothing. All that money did was finance the most corrupt politicians on the face of the earth.

 

[Gary K]

I saw the following in an article today....I need to find it...

Taxation, by definition, requires violence against someone who chooses not to pay the tax, a peaceful act that violates no one’s rights.

That is really true. In the very early 1980s I went back to school for a two year degree. During the noon break I was standing outside and heard a bunch of gunfire. It was city, county, state, and federal officers surrounding the nearby home of a tax protestor and then opening fire on him when he refused to surrender. They didn't end up killing the guy, but he spent a lot of time in the hospital before he went to jail. That siege took place less than a quarter mile from the college campus.

The guy wasn't even wealthy. He was just an average Joe, financially, who didn't like taxation and didn't think the government had the authority to require us to pay income taxes. He was basically correct for the founding fathers set up the federal government to not have the right to directly tax the people. Only the states had that right under the constitution. But, the Republicans and Democrats colluded to change that so they could spend more money to buy votes.

 

[quip]

One more argument against accepting that paying taxes is charity. When I use my money to help someone they get 100% of the benefit of my resources. When paying taxes as charity the recipients get a small percentage of the money I am forced to pay to the government. Most of it goes to pay for the government bureaucracy itself. The poor get the short end of the stick and we are forced at the government's gun to pay for the most inefficient organization on earth. The government is not efficient at anything. And what's worse a lot of our taxes monies are taken through fraud for every government agency pays out millions upon millions in fraudulent payments. Thus, accepting government as an agent of charity is the worst possible option for helping people in practical terms.

Well, if you universally loved all your neighbors unconditionally this idealized charitable method of distribution sounds perfect (logistics notwithstanding). Yet, you don't love ALL your neighbors. It's ego feigning a "personal responsibility from God" deeming who and what's worthy of your/God's charity and who's not. It's this very self-serving bias and sanctamonious prejudice which necessitates forced, expansive distribution of said "charity" by a (secular) centralized authority.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Well, if you universally loved all your neighbors equally this idealized charity method of distribution sounds perfect (logistics notwithstanding). Yet, you don't love ALL your neighbors. It's ego feigning a "personal responsibility from God" deeming who and what's worthy of your/God's charity and who's not. It's this very bias and sanctamonious prejudice which necessitates forced, expansive distribution of "charity" by a (secular) centralized authority.

This coming from a dishonest thief...

:rotfl:

You clearly don't know what love is if you think that "loving one's neighbor" includes the "equally" bit.

 

[Gary K]

Well, if you universally loved all your neighbors equally this idealized charitable method of distribution sounds perfect (logistics notwithstanding). Yet, you don't love ALL your neighbors. It's ego feigning a "personal responsibility from God" deeming who and what's worthy of your/God's charity and who's not. It's this very self-serving bias and sanctamonious prejudice which necessitates forced, expansive distribution of said "charity" by a (secular) centralized authority.

Even though I know what you're basing this assertion on, I'll ask you anyway, upon what evidence do you base this assertion?

 

[quip]

This coming from a dishonest thief...

:rotfl:

You clearly don't know what love is if you think that "loving one's neighbor" includes the "equally" bit.

And you believe loving them is denying them basic sustenance? You're odd.

 

[Gary K]

More blah blah blah...

You concocted a whole load of ignorant bunk and assumptions about me that were founded in your own imagination. I'm cynical of all parties, be it in the UK or across the pond. I make no secret of the criticism I have for Trump, he's the biggest clown of a president the US has probably ever had, a narcissist man baby. Does that mean I think the democrats are whiter than white? Nooooooo.....

I'm not a "socialist" either.

Your words and your actions tell different stories.

 

[quip]

Even though I know what you're basing this assertion on, I'll ask you anyway, upon what evidence do you base this assertion?

Evidenced by this thread ....for starters.

It's a diverse world with diverse beliefs. Your divisive belief system and personal biases raises conditions regarding your "responsibility".

 

[JudgeRightly]

And you believe loving them is denying them basic sustenance? You're odd.

For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies.Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread. - 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Thessalonians3:10-12&version=NKJV

You seem to think that discernment shouldn't be used when giving out charity.

You're the odd one here.

 

[quip]

For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.For we hear that there are some who walk among you in a disorderly manner, not working at all, but are busybodies.Now those who are such we command and exhort through our Lord Jesus Christ that they work in quietness and eat their own bread. - 2 Thessalonians 3:10-12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Thessalonians3:10-12&version=NKJV

You seem to think that discernment shouldn't be used when giving out charity.

You're the odd one here.

'Discernment' is an interesting spin. Anyway, such is not yours to mete out. Stay humble my God fearing friend.

 

[drbrumley]

And you believe loving them is denying them basic sustenance? You're odd.

He's odd?

I didn't read him to say he would deny anyone basic sustenance....What I did read was a government that MAKES YOU provide for the Herion addict food and shelter, basically at gunpoint to the person who objects, is perfectly fine with you.

Now why does the addict go to the government for this help? Because you bleeding heart liberals will give in to the guy, so he accepts no responsibility for his actions. None whatsoever. Whereas in private charity (i.e. Parents, family members, communities at large)will require some kind of action on his part to better himself. That you oppose for some odd ball reason.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Anyway, such is not yours to mete out.

Wrong.

[JESUS]“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard.And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,and said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went.Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise.And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle, and said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day?’They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.’“So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.’And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius.But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius.And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner,saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’But he answered one of them and said, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?’[/JESUS] - Matthew 20:1-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew20:1-15&version=NKJV

 

[JudgeRightly]

He's odd?

I didn't read him to say he would deny anyone basic sustenance....What I did read was a government that MAKES YOU provide for the Herion addict food and shelter, basically at gunpoint to the person who objects, is perfectly fine with you.

Now why does the addict go to the government for this help? Because you bleeding heart liberals will give in to the guy, so he accepts no responsibility for his actions. None whatsoever. Whereas in private charity (i.e. Parents, family members, communities at large)will require some kind of action on his part to better himself. That you oppose for some odd ball reason.

So far we've discovered that quip is a dishonest thief.

I wonder what other commandments he's broken... And if it bothers him that on Judgment Day God will find him guilty, and send him to hell because of that...

 

[drbrumley]

Wrong.

[JESUS]“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard.And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,and said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went.Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise.And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle, and said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day?’They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.’“So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.’And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius.But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius.And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner,saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’But he answered one of them and said, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?’[/JESUS] - Matthew 20:1-15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew20:1-15&version=NKJV

That's perfect....

 

[JudgeRightly]

That's perfect....

I know, right!

 

[JudgeRightly]

Further, we must not conflate today's welfare system with God's provision for the foreigner to "glean" the corners of the fields. "Forced" charity is an oxymoron. Coercing taxpayers to provide for the poor hurts the recipients of such entitlements far more than it hurts those from whom those funds are stolen, and compelling "charity" creates enormous social tension. As with tithing, giving to the poor, including by letting them glean, was apparently voluntary with no biblically proscribed punishment for failure to comply.

https://kgov.com/illegal-immigration

 

[drbrumley]

I know, right!

Even most "christians" have a hard time with that passage....

 

[Gary K]

Oh, you can be more specific than that in describing what you see as my hateful behavior. Come on, let it fly.

Ironic isn't it that you don't see yourself as divisive? You want to force me to accept your standards and call me all kinds of names and make all kinds of accusations against me that say I'm doing exactly what you're doing. And you want to use the government to enforce your concepts of love and hate on me.

 

[ok doser]

Well, if you universally loved all your neighbors unconditionally this idealized charitable method of distribution sounds perfect (logistics notwithstanding). Yet, you don't love ALL your neighbors. It's ego feigning a "personal responsibility from God" deeming who and what's worthy of your/God's charity and who's not. It's this very self-serving bias and sanctamonious prejudice which necessitates forced, expansive distribution of said "charity" by a (secular) centralized authority.

Purex did this so much better than you

It was still inane drivel, but much more readable

Try to do better little troll

 

[JudgeRightly]

Even most "christians" have a hard time with that passage....

It's a passage that deals with not just charity, but also wages and how one should be able to run a business.