Katrina Damage

[PureX]

You're the one who said never. Never doesn't allow exceptions.

Still with the lawyer tricks? C'mon.

 

[BillyBob]

I suspect that most white people consider Asians and Jews "white". Don't you?

Not Asians, they're yellow.

 

[fool]

Jews come in all kinds of colors.

 

[PureX]

If that is true, then it proves that this prejudice is not overwhelming and if some blacks can do it [become successful], most can do it, they just choose not to.

It doesn't prove this at all. In fact what it would indicate is that not all whites are totally prejudiced all the time against all black people. So some black people do manage to overcome it. And I think this is getting better as time passes and each generation of white people becomes a little bit less prejudiced against black people than the preceding generations.

But we need to keep after this. Just as we can become less prejudiced over time, we can also return to becoming more prejudiced over time, too. And we'll be able to see the progress, or lack of progress, by the effect of our prejudice. We'll know that we've finally overcome this particular prejudice when black people and white people are equally represented among the wealthy and the poor, and in positions of choice and power. But this is not so, now. And so we still have a ways to go.

But first, we have to recognize that there is racial prejudice, and that it is a problem, and it seems that lots of white people still don't want to do this, or they'll only do so as long as it's someone else who's being prejudiced.

 

[PureX]

Jews come in all kinds of colors.

Not generally. And not in America. I was generalizing about how Jews are perceived in America.

 

[BillyBob]

It doesn't prove this at all. In fact what it would indicate is that not all whites are totally prejudiced all the time against all black people. So some black people do manage to overcome it.

Many blacks hate white people.

We'll know that we've finally overcome this particular prejudice when black people and white people are equally represented among the wealthy and the poor, and in positions of choice and power. But this is not so, now. And so we still have a ways to go.

Equall representation of wealth and poverty is no guage of prejudice.

But first, we have to recognize that there is racial prejudice, and that it is a problem, and it seems that lots of white people still don't want to do this, or they'll only do so as long as it's someone else who's being prejudiced.

That is a typical liberal response. You are actually telling black people that it's OK if they don't succeeed because there is nothing they can do about it anyway. That is what the blacks have been told for generations and many of them actually believe that crap.

You are just giving them an excuse for their sloth....and an excuse for their prejudice.

 

[servent101]

PureX

So the effect of white discrimination against black people is very powerful and pervasive, while the effect of black discrimination against white people is far less so. This is why I believe that the onus is on white people, first, to begin facing up to their discrimination and trying to lessen it's really harmful effects.

Yes this is so, but for the most important part of the Black person is to realize that "most" of the discrimination is not flagarent or intentional, and for the White peopel who are that "way" they need to not be angry, for "every culture" has that element in it, where whatever race it is, that there are those amoungst that race that are just plain stupid... in a way, it is better to be grateful that one has to be smarter, wiser and stronger to be all that they can be. It could almost be said that all smart people are facing a much tougher life because we do not put up with the "general corruption" about so we are often left out of the "general thievery and plots".

All in all we mostly discriminate against people without knowing we do. I live in Canada, where Black people say that the White people here treat them fairly well, in fact I have heard some stories of Canadians going to some American cities, being forced to give up their wallet, just to have it handed back to them (money intact) because they are from Canada.

Here at least we are "trying" to be fair with everyone and this is in our culture.

With Christ's Love

Servent101

 

[BillyBob]

This whole idea that blacks are poor because of discrimination is a bunch of :cow:

Blacks have the same rights as everyone else in the US [sometimes MORE!] and if they are unsuccessful it is solely their own fault.

 

[PureX]

I have heard some stories of Canadians going to some American cities, being forced to give up their wallet, just to have it handed back to them (money intact) because they are from Canada.

Here at least we are "trying" to be fair with everyone and this is in our culture.

As you can see from the post above, many here in the U. S. are not.

 

[BillyBob]

Yes, please read my post. I clearly remind everyone that every American citizen has the same rights. Blacks even have a few extra rights that whites don't have.

Yet, for all these opportunities, rights and extra benifits, many blacks in this country simply refuse to take control of their lives and be properous.

It is what it is. It's not about racism. It's not about oppression. It's not about prejudice. It's about culture, a culture that was spawned by blacks themselves and perpetuated by liberals and the democrat party.

 

[Gaviidae]

I suspect that most white people consider Asians and Jews "white". Don't you?

Seems like a trick question. If I say "no" then you can accuse me of being a racist. If I say "yes" then you say that's evidence that blacks are severely prejudiced.

To be honest, for me it doesn't really matter the color of their skin. It's how they behave that matters to me. But if your point is that culturally asians and jews are more acceptable to us then I will agree. Especially in the business world. Socially, I think blacks may actually fit in better culturally but it's the business world that gets you out of poverty.

 

[Gaviidae]

That's true. In our relatively free environment, some blacks have managed to succeed in spite of the prejudices against them. But that doesn't mean the prejudice isn't there, or that it's not playing a large role in why so many others have not been assimilated.

I think that's true. But the only way to change the prejudices is to

a) accept they're not simply because of their race
and more importantly
b) get more of them to become assimilated

If most blacks acted like Will Smith, Colin Powell, and Michael Jordan the stereotype of the black man would change or at least become less strongly reinforced. And with that, less prejudice.

Read a good editorial today. It summed up what was needed to fix this racial inequity.

1) Conservatives need to accept that urban areas need help
2) Liberals and blacks need to face up to the blight of out-of-wedlock births and broken families

Even if there was no racism in the present or past the simple fact is that unmarried and single mothers have a much higher probability of being poor. And single and unmarried dads have a much higher probability of being criminals.

So take out race from the equation and you still have blacks having a much higher percentage of poor and jailed than whites.

 

[Gaviidae]

... in fact I have heard some stories of Canadians going to some American cities, being forced to give up their wallet, just to have it handed back to them (money intact) because they are from Canada.

That's just because no one down here wants your money. It's pretty but it isn't worth much. :wave2:

 

[Zimfan]

:madmad: I keep finding Canadian money in my till at work. It's annoying sometimes.

 

[Army of One]

Read a good editorial today. It summed up what was needed to fix this racial inequity.

1) Conservatives need to accept that urban areas need help
2) Liberals and blacks need to face up to the blight of out-of-wedlock births and broken families

Even if there was no racism in the present or past the simple fact is that unmarried and single mothers have a much higher probability of being poor. And single and unmarried dads have a much higher probability of being criminals.

So take out race from the equation and you still have blacks having a much higher percentage of poor and jailed than whites.

Great point, Gaviidae.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Gaviidae again.

:madmad:

 

[Army of One]

That's just because no one down here wants your money. It's pretty but it isn't worth much. :wave2:

:rotfl:

 

[BillyBob]

Seems like a trick question. If I say "no" then you can accuse me of being a racist. If I say "yes" then you say that's evidence that blacks are severely prejudiced.

Don't mind PureX, he's a bitter man.

To be honest, for me it doesn't really matter the color of their skin. It's how they behave that matters to me. But if your point is that culturally asians and jews are more acceptable to us then I will agree. Especially in the business world. Socially, I think blacks may actually fit in better culturally but it's the business world that gets you out of poverty.

It may be the business world that takes you out of poverty, but that world is not out of reach for blacks. You don't need a business degree to start a business. There are all sorts of ways to make money that require minimal skills. The problem is that they require effort and hard work, not a particular favorite among many blacks. They love their bling, they just don't wanna work for it.

Hey, you guys wanna hear a racist statement?

:sozo: The majority of athletes in football and basketball are black!!!!

 

[PureX]

Seems like a trick question. If I say "no" then you can accuse me of being a racist. If I say "yes" then you say that's evidence that blacks are severely prejudiced.

To be honest, for me it doesn't really matter the color of their skin. It's how they behave that matters to me. But if your point is that culturally asians and jews are more acceptable to us then I will agree. Especially in the business world. Socially, I think blacks may actually fit in better culturally but it's the business world that gets you out of poverty.

It wasn't meant to be a "trick" question. And I think we're all somewhat racist, even though we think we aren't. But I also think we can stop ourselves from behaving like racists once we recognize that we do have that inclination in spite of ourselves.

The prejudice we feel and express, I think, has to do with our discomfort with people who act and think "different" from us, and we attach that discomfort to things like skin color and language and styles of dress, etc. We aren't really prejudiced against dark skin colors, or foreign accents, or certain styles of dress. That'd be stupid. But we are prejudiced against people who don't think and act like we do, and we do attach that prejudice to visual differences like skin color and cultural origin and styles of dress, etc. But people can't change their skin color, or their accents, or their cultural mannerisms, if we maintain this prejudice they will never be able to "fit in". So it's up to us to recognize when we're acting on our natural inclinations to be prejudiced against these things, and to stop ourselves from doing that. If we don't, we risk creating an angry, impoverished cultural underclass within our culture at large, which is pretty much what we've done.

Most people want to be included, and appreciated, and respected by their fellows. Every immigrant groups that's come into America has wanted to become included and respected members of our society. No one wants to be set apart, or alienated. So if this has happened to anyone, it wasn't because they wanted it to. It's because the society as a whole wouldn't let them join. And I think this remains true today. I think that if we were to begin allowing those who we have been alienating in, they will still want in. Of course I'm generalizing, and there will always be exceptions, but there are exceptions to all generalities. We don't throw out the phone book because a few of the numbers are wrong. We have a cultural underclass in America and it didn't happen because that's the way the people in this underclass wanted it to be. It happened because we made it that way. And we can unmake it, if we really wanted to.

BB is right about the failed policies of the past establishing and perpetuating economic dependance by this permanent underclass. The same prejudice that wouldn't give them decent jobs, also inspired this idea of building them set-apart housing blocks and paying them a permanent "disability" check. Both were inspired by our discomfort with their differences and our wish to just 'make them go away from us'. BB is right that the 'liberals' are just as guilty as the 'conservatives' in creating this permanent underclass. We aren't going to be able to undo this kind of massive and systemic prejudice overnight. Even if we could, the people that we've done this to won't be able to change that quickly, either. Many of them have been so demoralized for so many generations that it will take generations to undo the effects.

But we need to begin. And I think the onus for beginning is on we who've created this cultural underclass in the first place.

 

[PureX]

I think that's true. But the only way to change the prejudices is to

a) accept they're not simply because of their race
and more importantly
b) get more of them to become assimilated

If most blacks acted like Will Smith, Colin Powell, and Michael Jordan the stereotype of the black man would change or at least become less strongly reinforced. And with that, less prejudice.

Read a good editorial today. It summed up what was needed to fix this racial inequity.

1) Conservatives need to accept that urban areas need help
2) Liberals and blacks need to face up to the blight of out-of-wedlock births and broken families

Even if there was no racism in the present or past the simple fact is that unmarried and single mothers have a much higher probability of being poor. And single and unmarried dads have a much higher probability of being criminals.

So take out race from the equation and you still have blacks having a much higher percentage of poor and jailed than whites.

I pretty much agree with all of this, except there seems to be the implication here that "they have to do it first". I don't agree with that.

 

[servent101]

Billybob PureX

This is somewhat what people see in and of life, as Billybob posted

It is what it is. It's not about racism. It's not about oppression. It's not about prejudice. It's about culture, a culture that was spawned by blacks themselves and perpetuated by liberals and the democrat party.

All of us really need to see what we believe about culture... that what the majority of people "believe" as to what brings happyness ... this is generally the bull - and the way to spell it in today's culture correctly is bull $hit - as the money people will believe is what brings happyness... and there are far too many White people and Black people believing this, and being unhappy and doing "evil" things because they are trying to become wealthy - where what we all need to do - including myself, is to persue discipline, self control, thriftyness, wisdom, - we need to find a way to contribute to the common good, to make life for "everyone" more secure. What has been missing from a lot of people's lives is "wisdom" on what is real happyness - and the concept of what we have not got - needs to be replaced with some sort of sharing what is "real" - and there are many people who are Guides that if understood properly can help us, Jesus, Mohamad, Gandi, Bahaullah, .... it is here, and many more places that we find what exactly it is to live in harmony and awareness - which does often lead to wealth and prosperity, but not always - trying for wealth and prosperity ALONE may be what most people do, and many who do succeed at finding wealth "only" are for the most part worse off than if they lived in poverty.

So what to do - spend a little time examining what we call culture and success - as we would likely find that there are people whom most think are so badly off, that are the richest in the world in terms of real wealth.

With Christ's Love

Servent101