Jesus is God

[Rosenritter]

Heb 10:5 tells you a body was prepared for the spirit son to become flesh.

Sent from my iPad using TOL

First, the Bible doesn't use the term "spirit son" - that's your strange term, not scripture. Second, the preparation of this body does nothing for your "spirit son possessing a man called Jesus" theory.

 

[Rosenritter]

God raised Jesus, he did not raise himself. If Jesus was God he could not die therefo not be the Lamb of God.

There is no verse that says Jesus raised himself. That dogma is man made garbage from the early fathers.

Sent from my VS835 using TOL mobile app

So you are calling Jesus a liar then.

John 2:19 KJV
(19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

And he did die, and beside him there is no God.

Revelation 1:17-18 KJV
(17) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
(18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Isaiah 44:6 KJV
(6) Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

 

[keypurr]

Show me where.

The dead know nothing.

Sent from my VS835 using TOL mobile app

SURE, look at this.

What is the state of the Dead?

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Psa 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day.

In other words, David is not in heaven looking down on us, neither is anyone else.

 

[keypurr]

First, the Bible doesn't use the term "spirit son" - that's your strange term, not scripture. Second, the preparation of this body does nothing for your "spirit son possessing a man called Jesus" theory.

True, but how else can I explain to you that God created his exact image and speaks of him as his son.
God is a spirit so his express image is also a spirit. Jesus was a human. The logos of John 1:1 is the express image, the spirit son. To find truth we must look deeper into the words. The logos became flesh in the body God prepared for it, Jesus.

 

[keypurr]

So you are calling Jesus a liar then.

John 2:19 KJV
(19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

And he did die, and beside him there is no God.

Revelation 1:17-18 KJV
(17) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
(18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Isaiah 44:6 KJV
(6) Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

What I dispute is the way most folks just soak in and swallow The word of God has been mishandled and misused for 2000 years. I dispute your understanding of the verses you post.

There is NO VERSE that says Jesus raised himself.

God can not die, Jesus is not God, he is the son of God in the flesh.

 

[Nihilo]

SURE, look at this.

What is the state of the Dead?

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Psa 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day.

In other words, David is not in heaven looking down on us, neither is anyone else.

Matthew 22:32 (KJV)

:idunno:

 

[Patrick Cronin]

Why couldn't the omnipotent God assume life as a human being if He wanted to?
If you can't accept the universal teaching and faith of the Church going back to the time of Christ, to whom can you go? Don't say "the Bible" because the New testament was written by the first members of the Church who were given the Holy Spirit "to guide them into all the truth".

 

[God's Truth]

Show me where.

The dead know nothing.

Sent from my VS835 using TOL mobile app

You were already given the scripture where Jesus says he will raise himself.

 

[God's Truth]

The Father raised him.

Gal. 1:1; Eph. 1:17,20


Jesus raised himself.

John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."


The Holy Spirit raised Jesus.


Romans 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,

(Jesus was made alive by the Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is his Spirit.)

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
1 Peter 3:18 Because The Messiah also died once for the sake of our sins, The Righteous One in the place of sinners, to bring you to God, and he died in body and lived in his Spirit.

Some scriptures say the Father raised Jesus. Some scriptures say Jesus raised himself. Some scriptures say the Spirit raised Jesus. So who raised Jesus? Which one raised Jesus? They are all the same one and only Spirit.

 

[keypurr]

The Father raised him.

Gal. 1:1; Eph. 1:17,20


Jesus raised himself.

John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."


The Holy Spirit raised Jesus.


Romans 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,

(Jesus was made alive by the Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is his Spirit.)

Aramaic Bible in Plain English ([emoji767]2010)
1 Peter 3:18 Because The Messiah also died once for the sake of our sins, The Righteous One in the place of sinners, to bring you to God, and he died in body and lived in his Spirit.

Some scriptures say the Father raised Jesus. Some scriptures say Jesus raised himself. Some scriptures say the Spirit raised Jesus. So who raised Jesus? Which one raised Jesus? They are all the same one and only Spirit.

So your saying Jesus did not raise himself?
.
Jesus is NOT the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is NOT the Father.

On the cross did Jesus send his spirit to his Father?

Did only the body die?

These are good questions to do a study on.


Sent from my iPad using TOL

 

[Lazy afternoon]

No, it doesn't. You still haven't explained. Or do you realize that as soon as you start to explain, it will become obvious by your own definition you will create the same dilemma for yourself?

I give up asking you nicely to explain yourself. I'm going to make an assumption on what you are saying (since you won't do so yourself) and cut this short. You are suggesting that if Jesus is God, then how can he be a mediator between God and man? Well then, if that is your interpretation, then Jesus cannot be man either, because how then could he be a mediator between God and man?

We are told that Jesus is the mediator between God and man. That is a fact which is not up for dispute. 1 Timothy 2:5. Your error is attempting to apply this verse to say that Jesus cannot be God. But by that same measure you created, neither can he be man. Therefore, in your zeal to lower Jesus from God you've destroyed any possible sense of the passage. Therefore, your interpretation is wrong, having created contradiction.

The correct interpretation is that Jesus is the mediator between God and man because he is God and came as man. He can mediate between the two because he is both. Not neither as you would suggest, but both as the scripture requires.

Don't complain that I've put words in you mouth, I tried so many times to get you to say your meaning. You must have sensed the trap. Can we get back to the original question now? What would be the ramification and effect if Jesus were God vs. if he were not God? How would this make a practical difference?

Jesus is not God the creator.

God the creator is the Father of Jesus.

If Jesus was God the creator come as a man then He could not be a man made like all men--

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

LA

 

[keypurr]

Matthew 22:32 (KJV)

:idunno:

Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Does pose a question?

Sometime I have seen what could be the word dead referring to folks who were not in the faith. Could this be similar?




Sent from my iPad using TOL

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Keypurr, would you please clarify? Did you just challenge that Jesus did not keep his own prophecy?

That would make him a false prophet, and additionally blasphemous claiming powers that were beyond his capability. God would not raise nor endorse a blasphemer, and we are told that he was without sin (Hebrews 4:15). But as a sign, we know he did rise from the dead, and being without sin, his prophecy was not wrong. Jesus did raise himself.

Jesus was not wrong. You're wrong. The integrity of that prophecy is proven by his resurrection. Where is the sign that we are given to prove your theory?

John 2:19 KJV
(19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Acts 2:32 KJV
(32) This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Yes, Jesus did raise up his body, he gave the prophecy and it was fulfilled. Yes, God did raise him up. How does this work? Jesus is our God. That's what the whole scripture has been telling you all along.

Jesus is our God without Him being God the creator and Father of Him.

You do not recognize the Father in His Son speaking.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Now you're sounding more like Keypurr.

Keypurr knows that Jesus needed the Anointing (Christ) to come from Heaven to join with Him at His baptism before it could be said of Him--

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

but you do not know that because you are not anointed by God to be one of His sons, but just a religious man full of beliefs.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.



LA

 

[Rosenritter]

True, but how else can I explain to you that God created his exact image and speaks of him as his son.
God is a spirit so his express image is also a spirit. Jesus was a human. The logos of John 1:1 is the express image, the spirit son. To find truth we must look deeper into the words. The logos became flesh in the body God prepared for it, Jesus.

I explain that you made up "God created his exact image" and that certainly isn't scripture.

 

[Rosenritter]

Matthew 22:32 (KJV)

:idunno:

Which does not say that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, or David are alive in any sense, looking down or otherwise. Unless you mean to make a fool of Jesus and have him destroy his own proof of the resurrection of the dead, it means that these saints are not alive in any form unless and until the resurrection.

 

[Rosenritter]

Jesus is not God the creator.

God the creator is the Father of Jesus.

If Jesus was God the creator come as a man then He could not be a man made like all men--

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

LA

You're going to have to explain how you think that passage supports your point. So far you've not been to hot on the explaining bit.

 

[Rosenritter]

Jesus is our God without Him being God the creator and Father of Him.

You do not recognize the Father in His Son speaking.

LA

So you say that Jesus is God, but not the Creator God? Things don't look so good for him then...

Jeremiah 10:10-11 KJV
(10) But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
(11) Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

Looks like Jesus is only here for a limited time then?

 

[keypurr]

I explain that you made up "God created his exact image" and that certainly isn't scripture.

Heb 1:3, read it.


Sent from my iPad using TOL

 

[keypurr]

So you say that Jesus is God, but not the Creator God? Things don't look so good for him then...

Jeremiah 10:10-11 KJV
(10) But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
(11) Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

Looks like Jesus is only here for a limited time then?

LORD in the OT means YHWH, not Jesus Christ.


Sent from my iPad using TOL