Jesus is God

[Bright Raven]

I guess I speak of things you can not understand BR.
You need to get past the milk and into the meat of scripturer.

Jesus did not exist until Mary gave birth to him.
But the logos did.


Sent from my iPad using TOL

You read your own interpretation into the text. Stop doing that and learn the truth.

noun, plural eisegeses [ahy-si-jee-seez] (Show IPA)
1.
an interpretation, especially of Scripture, that expresses the interpreter's own ideas, bias, or the like, rather than the meaning of the text. (Dictionary.com)

 

[glorydaz]

That is nothing more than a blatant misrepresentation of the truth. I do not deny my Master Teacher, the Messiah, the same whose words you deny while claiming to know and worship him, and moreover you deny the One and Only Supreme Father by giving all of the credit to His Son. You have essentially eliminated the Father, whom you apparently imagine as an outdated "Old Testament God", by making Jesus the "new head" of your version of the "godhead". Moreover, even worse, you essentially claim that God Almighty died on the cross at the hands of His own creatures: and that you do because you imagine yourself as someone worthy of the death of God Almighty so as to supposedly "save" you and allow you to continue living the rest of your life for yourself because you know you cannot stop sinning in your present condition. Therefore, in your mind full of pride, it took God Almighty to die for you so as to "save" you because nothing else would be good enough for precious you, and you therefore can do no wrong, which is why you run around mocking others and blaspheming other believers for not agreeing with your heresy. It amazes me how people such as yourself will fight so hard against the very scripture you claim to uphold. If indeed Jesus is God Almighty then why do you not believe and preach what he says? and why do you not do what he says? Oh, that's right, in the MAD doctrine his words were "only written to the Jews" and you have a totally separate "dispensation of Paul". What a poor excuse for a disciple of the Messiah: you claim to know, love, and worship him, but when it comes to doing what he says you say his words were only intended for "the Jews".

This entire rant only proves you have no knowledge of our Great Triune God. I'm not the one attempting to separate Him into two Gods (one lower and lesser than the other). Jesus is not a lesser God. He is the ONLY Lord God and was with God and was God from the beginning. He is the visible manifestation of the invisible God. So save your righteous indignation for those, like yourself, who are without understanding of God's very nature and makeup.

You cannot make God into your image...no matter how hard you try.

 

[glorydaz]

It is readily apparent in her doctrine and likely yours also: why else would anyone make such a preposterous doctrine up out of thin air? God Almighty cannot be killed. God Almighty is non-corporeal SPIRIT. No one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time, (John 1:18a, 1John 4:12a ASV).

Which is why He became flesh and dwelt among us....so He could be seen....so He could take on the sins of the world and die on the cross, and then return to the Glory He'd had from the beginning. Such a "preposterous" thing which requires faith to believe it.

 

[daqq]

This entire rant only proves you have no knowledge of our Great Triune God. I'm not the one attempting to separate Him into two Gods (one lower and lesser than the other). Jesus is not a lesser God. He is the ONLY Lord God and was with God and was God from the beginning. He is the visible manifestation of the invisible God. So save your righteous indignation for those, like yourself, who are without understanding of God's very nature and makeup.

You cannot make God into your image...no matter how hard you try.

Is that why I have so much scripture in support of what I say and you do not? Why are most of your "proof texts" in dispute? Who therefore is making God into his or her own image. You are trying much harder than I ever did before I was converted.

 

[daqq]

We are called the children of the light, not Thee Light.

1 Thessalonians 5:5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

Ephesians 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light

I am the light of the world, a city set on a hill cannot be hidden, and you and yours cannot take what the Master has given to those who follow him. I have my world, you have your world, my world is full of light.

 

[daqq]

Which is why He became flesh and dwelt among us....so He could be seen....so He could take on the sins of the world and die on the cross, and then return to the Glory He'd had from the beginning. Such a "preposterous" thing which requires faith to believe it.

The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us the moment Moses began to write:

That is written concerning "the Logos", (same as "the Memra"), and is not about the man you call "Jesus". You went too far in your assumptions when you jumped to your conclusion that John 1:1 speaks of a mortal man: it does not. Elohim is not a man, and no man has seen or beheld Elohim at any time, (John 1:18a and 1John 4:12a ASV). The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us the minute Moses began to write, (on a lambskin sefer scroll). You have taken ancient customs, and old idiomatic Hebrew sayings and teachings, and have subverted them...

1 John 1:1-3
[1] Who was from the beginning, Who we have heard, Who we have seen with our eyes, Who we have beheld and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of Life: [2] and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare unto you the Life, the Life of the aionion, Who was with the Father, and has been manifested unto us: [3] Who we have seen and heard we declare unto you also, that you also may have fellowship with us, and our fellowship moreover is with the Father and with His Son Meshiah Ι̅H:

And the Word became flesh, (μεμβρανας-lambskins), and tabernacled among us: Who we have heard: Who we have seen with our eyes: Who we have looked upon, which our hands have handled: the Word of Life in the lambskin Sefer, whose earlets were pierced coming into the world, being affixed to the Atzei Chayim, (that is to say, the Trees of Life).

Syria Gallery

Amen-amen, Who tabernacles among us, and in the midst of the great congregation.

Stephen tells you that the Torah contains the LIVING WORDS of the Father.
The Torah is the Word of the Father and therefore the Son of Elohim:

Acts 7:37-38
37 This is that Moses, who said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall God raise up unto you from among your brethren, like unto me.
38 This is he that was in the congregation in the desert with the Angel that spoke to him in the Mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received living Oracles to give unto us:

The Torah is λογια ζωντα, Living Words, Living Oracles, Living Sayings, (LOGOS).

Romans 3:1-2
1 What advantage then has the Yhudi? or what is the profit of circumcision?
2 Much every way: first of all, that they were entrusted with the Oracles of Elohim.

τα λογια του θεου ~ "the Logia-Oracles of Elohim" ~ the Torah

Hebrews 5:12-14
12 For when by reason of the time you ought to be teachers, you have need yet again that some one teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the Oracles of Elohim; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of solid food.
13 For every one that partakes of milk is without experience of the Word of Righteousness; for he is a babe.
14 But solid food is for fully grown men, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil.

των λογιων του θεου ~ "the Logion-Oracles of Elohim" ~ the Torah
λογου δικαιοσυνης ~ "the Logos-Word of Righteousness"

And by the context within Hebrews 5:12-13 quoted above:

των λογιων του θεου = λογου δικαιοσυνης = the Torah

1 Peter 4:11
11 If anyone speak, let him speak according to the Oracles of Elohim; if anyone ministers, let him minister as from the strength which Elohim supplies: that in all things Elohim may be glorified through Meshiah Yeshua, to whom is the glory and the dominion into the ages of the ages. Amen.

λογια θεου ~ "the Oracles of Elohim" ~ the Torah

Do you not say that you worship the Meshiah? The Logos-(Memra-Miltha)-Word?
Why therefore do you abolish him from your heart and mind in your doctrine?

 

[glorydaz]

The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us the moment Moses began to write:

Wrong, and the proof is John the Baptist. He is the voice crying in the wilderness as spoken by the prophet Isaiah. Moses spoke of a tabernacle....not the Word made flesh.

John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.​

John 1:14-15 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.​

John made this clear.

John 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.​

Isaiah spoke of John preparing the way for OUR GOD.

Isaiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.​

 

[daqq]

Wrong, and the proof is John the Baptist. He is the voice crying in the wilderness as spoken by the prophet Isaiah. Moses spoke of a tabernacle....not the Word made flesh.

John 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.​

John 1:14-15 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.​

John made this clear.

John 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.​

Isaiah spoke of John preparing the way for OUR GOD.

Isaiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.​

How do you not know that Yohanan is both the tabernacle and the menorah?
Awake, O sleeper, and let the Light of Messiah shine through you.

 

[daqq]

How do you not know that Yohanan is both the tabernacle and the menorah?
Awake, O sleeper, and let the Light of Messiah shine through you.

Yohanan is the Angel of Exodus 23:20a by the Testimony of the Master:

Matthew 11:7-15
7. Moreover, as they went their way, Yeshua commenced saying to the multitudes concerning Yohanan: What did you go out into the wilderness to look at? A reed shaken with the wind?
8. But having gone out what did you see? A man clothed in malakos raiment? Behold, they that wear malakos raiment are in the houses of kings.
9. But having gone out what did you see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, even much surpassing a prophet:
10. He it is concerning whom it is written, "Behold, I send My Angel before thy face, who shall prepare thy way before thee."
11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there has not arisen a greater than Yohanan the Immerser: yet he that is but little in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he.
12. Moreover, from the days of Yohanan the Immerser until now, the kingdom of the heavens suffers violence and the violent seize it by force:
13. For all the Prophets and the Torah prophesied until Yohanan.
14. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Eliyahu, that is about to come.
15. He that has ears, let him hear!

In the passage above, from Matthew 11:10, we find the following scripture quote and statement in which the Master, in quoting from the scripture, emphatically states that the scripture which he quotes concerns Yohanan the Immerser:

Matthew 11:10
10. He it is concerning whom it is written, "Behold, I send My Angel before thy face, who shall prepare thy way before thee."

Where is this statement written in the scripture? It is only found in one place and that is not Malachi 3:1, as the scholars and their commentaries all appear to assume, but rather the statement is a direct quote from the LXX-Septuagint version of Exodus 23:20a. The scripture quote from Matthew 11:10b is copied straight from the Septuagint, verbatim, word for word from the Greek:

Matthew 11:10 W/H 1881
οὗτός ἐστιν περὶ οὗ γέγραπται Ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἀποστέλλω τὸν ἄγγελόν μου πρὸ προσώπου σου, ὃς κατασκευάσει τὴν ὁδόν σου ἔμπροσθέν σου.
http://biblehub.com/text/matthew/11-10.htm

Exodus 23:20 LXX-Septuagint
Καὶ ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἀποστέλλω τὸν ἄγγελόν μου πρὸ προσώπου σου, ἵνα φυλάξῃ σε ἐν τῇ ὁδῷ, ὅπως εἰσαγάγῃ σε εἰς τὴν γῆν, ἣν ἡτοίμασά σοι.

The statement from Malachi 3:1a-b is not even close:

Malachi 3:1 LXX-Septuagint
ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξαποστέλλω τὸν ἄγγελόν μου, καὶ ἐπιβλέψεται ὁδὸν πρὸ προσώπου μου, καὶ ἐξαίφνης ἥξει εἰς τὸν ναὸν ἑαυτοῦ Κύριος, ὃν ὑμεῖς ζητεῖτε, καὶ ὁ ἄγγελος τῆς διαθήκης, ὃν ὑμεῖς θέλετε· ἰδοὺ ἔρχεται, λέγει Κύριος παντοκράτωρ.

Without Καὶ (And) Exodus 23:20a is identical to Matthew 11:10b:

Exodus 23:20a LXX-Septuagint
ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἀποστέλλω τὸν ἄγγελόν μου πρὸ προσώπου σου,

Matthew 11:10b
Ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἀποστέλλω τὸν ἄγγελόν μου πρὸ προσώπου σου,

The statement from Malachi 3:1a-b is not the same:

Malachi 3:1a-b LXX-Septuagint
ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξαποστέλλω τὸν ἄγγελόν μου, καὶ ἐπιβλέψεται ὁδὸν πρὸ προσώπου μου

Here it is in KJV English:

Matthew 11:10 KJV
10. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Exodus 23:20 LXX-Septuagint (Brenton Translation)
20 And, behold, I send my angel before thy face, that he may keep thee in the way, that he may bring thee into the land which I have prepared for thee.
http://biblehub.com/sep/exodus/23.htm

Malachi 3:1 KJV
1. Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

Malachi 3:1 LXX-Septuagint (Brenton Translation)
1. Behold, I send forth my messenger, and he shall survey the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come into his temple, even the angel of the covenant, whom ye take pleasure in: behold, he is coming, saith the Lord Almighty.
http://biblehub.com/sep/malachi/3.htm

Matthew 11:10b duplicates Exodus 23:20a word for word as if copied straight from the Septuagint. And "THEE-THINE-YOU-YOUR" [σου] and "ME-MY-MINE" [μου] are not the same in any language. The Master therefore emphatically states from the Torah that Yohanan the Immerser is not only Eliyahu-Elijah but likewise the Malak-Angel-Messenger of Exodus 23:20-23. Likewise Matthew is not the only place where we find this quote from Exodus but again it appears in both Mark 1:2 and Luke 7:27. Mark reveals even more detail as the author places this quote from Exodus 23:20 together with the quote from Isaiah 40:3. This reveals that when Yeshayah-Isaiah speaks of "the voice of a Cryer in the wilderness" the Prophet is speaking of the Malak of Exodus 23:20 and, therefore, the same is Yohanan the Immerser according to the doctrine of the Master:

Mark 1:2-3
2. As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send My Angel before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee [Exodus 23:20].
3. The voice of a Cryer in the wilderness, Prepare you the way of YHWH, make His paths straight [Isaiah 40:3].

If these things be true, and they are, then how can these things be properly understood? Can it be that Yohanan pre-existed his physical incarnation? Obviously not according to fundamental Christian doctrine. What it means then is that one must be fully willing to believe all that the Master teaches and this includes another emphatic statement from the same Matthew passage quoted at the top where he says that all the Prophets and the Torah prophesied until Yohanan:

Matthew 11:13
13. For all the Prophets and the Torah prophesied until Yohanan.

Yohanan is therefore the first to fully understand and be enlightened by the full indwelling of Meshiah; and he is the one who brings the children of Israel into the Land. Therefore the Master also calls him THE lamp, not "a lamp", because the article is present in that passage:

John 5:35 W/H
35 εκεινος ην ο λυχνος ο καιομενος και φαινων υμεις δε ηθελησατε αγαλλιαθηναι προς ωραν εν τω φωτι αυτου

ο λυχνος = "the lamp"

And luchnos is the same word used in the Septuagint for the Menorah. As for the tabernacle every child of Israel is commanded to make himself/herself a little mikdash-sanctuary-chapel after the pattern of the greater Mishkan-Tabernacle. This is in the Torah and expounded in the Prophet Ezekiel, (Exo 25:1-9, Eze 11:16 KJV).

Moreover, if Yohanan is the Malak-Angel or Messenger of Exodus 23:20-23, and the Master says he is, then the Torah was not even fully inaugurated and enforce until the coming of that Messenger. How then can anyone say that the Torah was abolished or done away with at the cross? Yohanan is he who immerses you in the water of the Word, just as he plainly tells everyone who reads his words, "I immerse you in water." Without the immersion of Yohanan, (the water of the Word), one cannot receive the immersion of Meshiah which is by holy fire and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The Lord Jesus was and still is a man, but also more than a man.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

You don't recognize the Lord Jesus as the only possible 'daysman', thus your false jesus, as a man can adequately represent man, but not being GOD cannot reach GOD and place his hand on both.
You have no adequate mediator.

False.

Jesus did not have to be God to be the mediator BETWEEN man and God.

If Jesus is God then one would not need a mediator, if you know Him.

Jesus is the word made flesh, not God made flesh,

and Jesus went to the cross in his own faith as the man that He raised up by God to be through the ministry of His Fathers Word to Him and attendant sufferings because of, in a fallen world.

God was not even in Jesus when He suffered and died.

You have no idea because you follow the teachings of men.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Keypurr, your beliefs have some major problems.

You don't acknowledge that all have their own spirit that lives on and cannot die; a spirit that is themselves.

The Spirit of Christ IS the Spirit of God.

Think about that for a while.

We all have our own spirit, but the Spirit of Christ IS the Spirit of God; thus making Jesus God in bodily form.

Your jesus was never a man.

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Which is why He became flesh and dwelt among us....so He could be seen....so He could take on the sins of the world and die on the cross, and then return to the Glory He'd had from the beginning. Such a "preposterous" thing which requires faith to believe it.

False.

Men saw God in mans form often in the past.

Jesus was glorified to the max after His resurrection from the dead.

Your jesus never died, he just shed his body.

LA

 

[glorydaz]

False.

Men saw God in mans form often in the past.

That was Jesus.

Jesus was glorified to the max after His resurrection from the dead.

His former Glory is God's and is always the "max".

Your jesus never died, he just shed his body.

LA

MY JESUS? Well, at least you've come clean on that one.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

That was Jesus.

False.

The OT appearances of God was the Father of Jesus.

Your view is modalism, not trinitarian.

So stop pretending.

LA

 

[glorydaz]

False.

The OT appearances of God was the Father of Jesus.

Your view is modalism, not trinitarian.

So stop pretending.

LA

You don't believe Jesus, I realize that....but the Jews understood.

John 8:56-58 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.​

He actually appeared several times, but I'll give you the most obvious.

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

 

[daqq]

You don't believe Jesus, I realize that....but the Jews understood.

John 8:56-58 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.​

He actually appeared several times, but I'll give you the most obvious.

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Yeah, but that is the Word, (and the Ram in Gen 22), not the man Jesus.

"Amen-amen, I say to you, Before Abraham is done, I am — — — — —!
(In the mountain of Yah it shall be seen-provided).

 

[keypurr]

You read your own interpretation into the text. Stop doing that and learn the truth.

noun, plural eisegeses [ahy-si-jee-seez] (Show IPA)
1.
an interpretation, especially of Scripture, that expresses the interpreter's own ideas, bias, or the like, rather than the meaning of the text. (Dictionary.com)

I do, I absolutely do think for myself. I do not need a church to mislead me from the truth that is in the scriptures.

And I prove all things before I accept them. My line of reason far exceeds that of any church I have been in. I have no rules or creeds to guide me into the stuff they teach. Half truth is not truth BR.

I stand quite strongly on my faith in God and his Christ. From things that I did not learn in church. I have spent many hours with pastors with Phds that could not give me a reason for their own faith. It was sad to see that in a leader of a big church.

BR, I have prayed that you would be able to see what I brought to the table for you to see. I sincerely do not believe that you have understood my words.

 

[glorydaz]

Yeah, but that is the Word, (and the Ram in Gen 22), not the man Jesus.

Yes, the Word was God from the beginning....and became flesh to dwell among us. He is both God and man...with a divine and a human nature.

 

[daqq]

Yes, the Word was God from the beginning....and became flesh to dwell among us. He is both God and man...with a divine and a human nature.

I edited that post, (just so you know).

 

[Bright Raven]

I do, I absolutely do think for myself. I do not need a church to mislead me from the truth that is in the scriptures.

And I prove all things before I accept them. My line of reason far exceeds that of any church I have been in. I have no rules or creeds to guide me into the stuff they teach. Half truth is not truth BR.

I stand quite strongly on my faith in God and his Christ. From things that I did not learn in church. I have spent many hours with pastors with Phds that could not give me a reason for their own faith. It was sad to see that in a leader of a big church.

BR, I have prayed that you would be able to see what I brought to the table for you to see. I sincerely do not believe that you have understood my words.

you have through your own words shown that you refuse to correctly interpret the text of scripture by inserting your own bias and ideas. In doing so, people will not pay attention to what you bring to the table.