Jesus is God

[Tambora]

Not only is there no other Savior but GOD, there is also no other GOD but "one".

Isaiah 43 KJV
(10) Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.


GOD's apostle says ...


John 20 KJV
(28) And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.


Either GOD is "one" as a unity of more than one member, or one of the above scriptures is a fib.

 

[Tambora]

They are of one mind because the Word is the Word of the Father. My heavenly Father is the ultimate Savior and He sent His Word into the world that I might be saved through that holy Testimony which He gave to the Anointed One from on High, (John 3:27-36). The Father is not His Word, but His Word proceeds from Him, and yet His Word, His Son, is always in His bosom at the right hand side: Who is able to build Him a house, seeing that the heavens and the heaven of the heavens cannot contain Him?

GOD is the "one" only Savior.

Isaiah 43 KJV
(11) I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour


John 4 KJV
(42) And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.



Either GOD is "one" as a unity of more than one member, or one of the above scriptures cannot be true.

 

[Tambora]

They are of one mind because the Word is the Word of the Father. My heavenly Father is the ultimate Savior and He sent His Word into the world that I might be saved through that holy Testimony which He gave to the Anointed One from on High, (John 3:27-36). The Father is not His Word, but His Word proceeds from Him, and yet His Word, His Son, is always in His bosom at the right hand side: Who is able to build Him a house, seeing that the heavens and the heaven of the heavens cannot contain Him?

The Word was GOD, silly willy.

John 1 KJV
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Gotta do a whole lot of pretzel twisting to make that say the Word was not GOD.



Things are not looking good for your messed up theology.



We have the Word which was GOD, and the Word which was GOD became flesh.
And the Word which was GOD and became flesh spilt His blood on the cross.


Acts 20 KJV
(28) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.





Not looking good for your messed up theology at all.

 

[daqq]

GOD is the "one" only Savior.

Isaiah 43 KJV
(11) I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour


John 4 KJV
(42) And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.



Either GOD is "one" as a unity of more than one member, or one of the above scriptures cannot be true.

Nope, that is yet another case of what is called "special pleading" just as the majority do with passages like John 10:30. The only way to make John 10:30 mean that "Jesus is God Almighty" is to ignore the companion context from John 17 which I posted. The same is true with the Isa 43:11 passage you have posted. The word for Savior there is Moshia, (a form of yasha), but the same word is also used for other "Saviors" and "Deliverers" already elsewhere in the Tanach. There are various Saviors and Deliverers throughout the history of Israel and the scripture; and there are likewise various ways in which the word Elohim, (God), is used throughout the scripture. Moses was also called an Elohim. Certain Elders were also called Elohim-Judges. Angels are also called Elohim. Othniel the son of Kenaz is called a Moshia-Savior-Deliverer. Ehud the son of Gera is also called a Moshia-Savior-Deliverer. Jehoahaz is also called a Moshia-Savior-Deliverer:

Judges 3:9 - Othniel the son of Kenaz - "Moshia"
Judges 3:15 - Ehud the son of Gera - "Moshia"
2 Kings 13:5 - Jehoahaz the son of Jehu - "Moshia"

Exodus 7:1 - Moses = Elohim (to Pharaoh)
Exodus 21:6 - Elohim = Judges
Exodus 22:8 - Elohim = Judges
Exodus 22:9a - Elohim = Judges
Exodus 22:9b - Elohim = the Judge
Psalm 8:5 (Heb 2:7-9) - Elohim = Angels (in some translations)
Psalm 8:5 (Heb 2:7-9) - Elohim = God (in some translations (Psa 8:5 ASV))
Psalm 97:7 - Elohim = Angels (LXX)
Psalm 138:1 - Elohim = Angels (LXX)
Psalm 82:6-7 (John 10:34-35) - Elohim = Sons of the Most High
Sons of the Most High = Those to whom the Logos of Elohim has come (John 10:35)

Isaiah 43:11
11 I, I am יהוה, and besides Me there is no Moshia.

So you see that the Father is the Ultimate Moshia-Savior-Deliverer but He also sends Moshia-Savior-Deliverers to His people. The Anointed One in the Gospel accounts is the final Moshia and there is no other name under the heavens that is given among men whereby we must be saved-delivered: but that does not make him the Almighty Elohim any more than it would make any of the other people listed above into the Almighty Elohim. Is Moses the Almighty Elohim just because he was also called an Elohim? Are those to whom the Word of Elohim has come suddenly the Almighty Elohim just because they are called Elohim? And what about those who were also called Elohim-Judges? And are the Angels Almighty Elohim just because they are also called Elohim? And is Othniel the son of Kenaz the Almighty Elohim just because he is called a Moshia-Savior-Deliverer? Is Ehud the son of Gera the Almighty Elohim just because he is also called a Moshia-Savior-Deliverer? Is Jehoahaz the Almighty Elohim just because he is also called a Moshia-Savior-Deliverer? They only way for you to make the case you are trying to make by the passage you have quoted is by what is called special pleading, that is to say, "It should mean Almighty Elohim in this place because it makes my point but not anywhere else where it might refute my point!" Sorry, but special pleading has no place when one is sincerely and diligently searching for the truth, (not that you are not sincere in your endeavors but just saying, time to get real, lol).

 

[daqq]

The Word was GOD, silly willy.

John 1 KJV
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Gotta do a whole lot of pretzel twisting to make that say the Word was not GOD.



Things are not looking good for your messed up theology.



We have the Word which was GOD, and the Word which was GOD became flesh.
And the Word which was GOD and became flesh spilt His blood on the cross.


Acts 20 KJV
(28) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.





Not looking good for your messed up theology at all.

See my previous post above.

 

[Tambora]

Revelation 19 KJV
(13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.


1 John 5 KJV
(7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[Tambora]

Nope, that is yet another case of what is called "special pleading" just as the majority do with passages like John 10:30. The only way to make John 10:30 mean that "Jesus is God Almighty" is to ignore the companion context from John 17 which I posted. The same is true with the Isa 43:11 passage you have posted. The word for Savior there is Moshia, (a form of yasha), but the same word is also used for other "Saviors" and "Deliverers" already elsewhere in the Tanach. There are various Saviors and Deliverers throughout the history of Israel and the scripture; and there are likewise various ways in which the word Elohim, (God), is used throughout the scripture. Moses was also called an Elohim. Certain Elders were also called Elohim-Judges. Angels are also called Elohim. Othniel the son of Kenaz is called a Moshia-Savior-Deliverer. Ehud the son of Gera is also called a Moshia-Savior-Deliverer. Jehoahaz is also called a Moshia-Savior-Deliverer:

Judges 3:9 - Othniel the son of Kenaz - "Moshia"
Judges 3:15 - Ehud the son of Gera - "Moshia"
2 Kings 13:5 - Jehoahaz the son of Jehu - "Moshia"

Exodus 7:1 - Moses = Elohim (to Pharaoh)
Exodus 21:6 - Elohim = Judges
Exodus 22:8 - Elohim = Judges
Exodus 22:9a - Elohim = Judges
Exodus 22:9b - Elohim = the Judge
Psalm 8:5 (Heb 2:7-9) - Elohim = Angels (in some translations)
Psalm 8:5 (Heb 2:7-9) - Elohim = God (in some translations (Psa 8:5 ASV))
Psalm 97:7 - Elohim = Angels (LXX)
Psalm 138:1 - Elohim = Angels (LXX)
Psalm 82:6-7 (John 10:34-35) - Elohim = Sons of the Most High
Sons of the Most High = Those to whom the Logos of Elohim has come (John 10:35)

Isaiah 43:11
11 I, I am יהוה, and besides Me there is no Moshia.

So you see that the Father is the Ultimate Moshia-Savior-Deliverer but He also sends Moshia-Savior-Deliverers to His people. The Anointed One in the Gospel accounts is the final Moshia and there is no other name under the heavens that is given among men whereby we must be saved-delivered: but that does not make him the Almighty Elohim any more than it would make any of the other people listed above into the Almighty Elohim. Is Moses the Almighty Elohim just because he was also called an Elohim? Are those to whom the Word of Elohim has come suddenly the Almighty Elohim just because they are called Elohim? And what about those who were also called Elohim-Judges? And are the Angels Almighty Elohim just because they are also called Elohim? And is Othniel the son of Kenaz the Almighty Elohim just because he is called a Moshia-Savior-Deliverer? Is Ehud the son of Gera the Almighty Elohim just because he is also called a Moshia-Savior-Deliverer? Is Jehoahaz the Almighty Elohim just because he is also called a Moshia-Savior-Deliverer? They only way for you to make the case you are trying to make by the passage you have quoted is by what is called special pleading, that is to say, "It should mean Almighty Elohim in this place because it makes my point but not anywhere else where it might refute my point!" Sorry, but special pleading has no place when one is sincerely and diligently searching for the truth, (not that you are not sincere in your endeavors but just saying, time to get real, lol).

Bull.
None of them guys, not a single one, were the life giving Savior of the world.
But the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is.
That can only be because He (the Word) is GOD.

GOD is the "one" only Savior of the world, silly willy.


Isaiah 43 KJV
(11) I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour


John 4 KJV
(42) And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

 

[Tambora]

See my previous post above.

Why?
Does it say that the Word was not GOD?
If it does, you would be wrong.


John 1 KJV
(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Does it say that GOD did not purchase His church with His own blood?
If it does, you would be wrong.


Acts 20 KJV
(28) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

 

[daqq]

Revelation 19 KJV
(13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.


1 John 5 KJV
(7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Your second quote is yet another one of those highly disputed passages that does not exist hardly anywhere outside the non-existant Textus Receptus. It is called the Johannine Comma or Comma Johanneum:

The Comma Johanneum, also called the Johannine Comma or the Heavenly Witnesses, is a comma (a short clause) found in Latin manuscripts of the First Epistle of John^[1] at 5:7–8. The comma first appeared in the Vulgate manuscripts of the 9th century.^[2] The first Greek manuscript that contains the comma dates from the 15th century.^[3] The comma is absent from the Ethiopiac, Aramaic, Syriac, Slavic, Armenian, Georgian, and Arabic translations of the Greek New Testament.^[3] The scholarly consensus is that that passage is a Latin corruption that entered the Greek manuscript tradition in some subsequent copies.^[1] As the comma does not appear in the manuscript tradition of other languages, the debate is mainly limited to the English-speaking world due to the King James Only movement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum

Your first quote the Master tells you is not himself but the Logos which he speaks:

There is no evidence that "Jesus is the Word who became flesh", no, but that is rather only your assumption. There is no clear passage that tells us the "Word is Jesus" and yet there are other passages in the Gospel of John where Jesus says that he is not the Logos-Word.

John 12:47-49 KJV
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

But you already know these things because you were here, and you denied the Testimony of Messiah in that thread, (just before you and your friends got it shut down because you could not refute the Testimony of the Master).

John 12:47-48
47. And if anyone hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but that the world might be delivered.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the LOGOS-WORD that I have spoken, THAT ONE [G1565 εκεινος] shall judge him in the last day [Rev 19:11-16].

John 14:24
24. He that loves me not, keeps not my sayings: and the LOGOS-WORD which you hear is not of me, but of the Father who sent me.

How many times has this already been denied over and over and over again right here in this three hundred thirty page thread? The words of Messiah are never going to change and they are never going to pass away: the Anointed One judges no one. The Father judges no one. The Logos-Word is the only Judge. The Anointed One is not the Logos-Word because the Logos-Word is the Son of Elohim upon the Anointed One. How hard is that to understand when Keypurr has spent so much more time than even myself here telling you all the same thing over and over and over again? How can you reject the Testimony of the Master and yet claim to love, serve, and worship him as God Almighty?

Here it is again outside the quote box:

John 12:47-48
47. And if anyone hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but that the world might be delivered.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the LOGOS-WORD that I have spoken, THAT ONE [G1565 εκεινος] shall judge him in the last day [Rev 19:11-16].

John 14:24
24. He that loves me not, keeps not my sayings: and the LOGOS-WORD which you hear is not of me, but of the Father who sent me.

The man Jesus, the Anointed One, is not the Logos-Word according to his own Testimony.

 

[daqq]

Does it say that GOD did not purchase His church with His own blood?
If it does, you would be wrong.

Acts 20 KJV
(28) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Blahahahah, yet another passage that is under dispute!
Are you one of the "KJV Only" people?

As already quoted: NO ONE has seen or beheld Elohim at any time, and that is from two separate NT passages, so how do you understand the "blood of Elohim" if that translation is correct?

 

[daqq]

Bull.
None of them guys, not a single one, were the life giving Savior of the world.
But the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is.
That can only be because He (the Word) is GOD.

GOD is the "one" only Savior of the world, silly willy.


Isaiah 43 KJV
(11) I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour


John 4 KJV
(42) And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

Lol, Messiah is the light of the world and I am the light of the world, (a city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden).

 

[Lazy afternoon]

If the Lord Jesus wasn't good, then show us where He failed to be good.

If the Lord Jesus wasn't good, the you can surely show us where He failed to be the lamb without spot and without blemish.

If the Lord Jesus was not good then He was not without sin.

Your false jesus is an inadequate savior.

You think Jesus was not a man of the human race, and is the antichrist view.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Heb 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Heb 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

LA

 

[daqq]

Does it say that GOD did not purchase His church with His own blood?
If it does, you would be wrong.

Acts 20 KJV
(28) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Blahahahah, yet another passage that is under dispute!
Are you one of the "KJV Only" people?

As already quoted: NO ONE has seen or beheld Elohim at any time, and that is from two separate NT passages, so how do you understand the "blood of Elohim" if that translation is correct?

RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Προσέχετε οὖν ἑαυτοῖς καὶ παντὶ τῷ ποιμνίῳ, ἐν ᾧ ὑμᾶς τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον ἔθετο ἐπισκόπους, ποιμαίνειν τὴν ἐκκλησίαν τοῦ κυρίου καὶ θεοῦ, ἣν περιεποιήσατο διὰ τοῦ ἰδίου αἵματος.
http://biblehub.com/text/acts/20-28.htm

Greek Orthodox Church 1904
προσέχετε οὖν ἑαυτοῖς καὶ παντὶ τῷ ποιμνίῳ, ἐν ᾧ ὑμᾶς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον ἔθετο ἐπισκόπους, ποιμαίνειν τὴν ἐκκλησίαν τοῦ Κυρίου καὶ Θεοῦ, ἣν περιεποιήσατο διὰ τοῦ ἰδίου αἵματος.
http://biblehub.com/text/acts/20-28.htm

Tischendorf 8th Edition
προσέχετε ἑαυτοῖς καὶ παντὶ τῷ ποιμνίῳ, ἐν ᾧ ὑμᾶς τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον ἔθετο ἐπισκόπους, ποιμαίνειν τὴν ἐκκλησίαν τοῦ κυρίου, ἣν περιεποιήσατο διὰ τοῦ αἵματος τοῦ ἰδίου.
http://biblehub.com/text/acts/20-28.htm

Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
προσέχετε οὖν ἑαυτοῖς καὶ παντὶ τῷ ποιμνίῳ, ἐν ᾧ ὑμᾶς τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον ἔθετο ἐπισκόπους, ποιμαίνειν τὴν ἐκκλησίαν τοῦ Θεοῦ, ἣν περιεποιήσατο διὰ τοῦ ἰδίου αἵματος.
http://biblehub.com/text/acts/20-28.htm

Again, which one is it?

King James Bible
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
http://biblehub.com/acts/20-28.htm

American Standard Version
Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood.
http://biblehub.com/acts/20-28.htm

World English Bible
Take heed, therefore, to yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the assembly of the Lord and God which he purchased with his own blood.
http://biblehub.com/acts/20-28.htm

That passage is under dispute, and again, not because of anything I say but because that just is what it is. So you quoting your preferred rendering of it is really pointless because when you combine that with your handful of twenty or so other disputed passages that Oneness and Trinitarians always use to formulate their doctrine it only reveals that the entire theology is built upon controversial passages that are under dispute, (as I already tried to explain to GloryDaz). That is not putting your faith in true evidence but is rather ignoring the facts and ignoring the hard evidence already found in the scripture in manifold passages which are NOT under dispute but which refute your position.

The evolution of this passage seems pretty clear too: it probably started out with "the congregation of the Master", (Lord), and then certain versions began inserting Elohim, (Theos/God) and read, "the congregation of the Master and Elohim", then at last the scribes began deleting one of the two because of the awkward phraseology and, of course, which word would a Trintarian scribe delete? (lol) So we end up with "the congregation of Elohim", and of course it is a bold faced contradiction because no one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time: and if that be true then Elohim does not have literal physical blood because, again, He is non-corporeal SPIRIT!

Are we going to go over all twenty or so controversial Trinitarian passages?
Perhaps there should be a whole thread for this . . .

 

[keypurr]

:mock: Keypurr


Sounds like Brigham Young to me. Perhaps Ellen White. :think:

Its all in the scriptures glorydaz, perhaps you need more time to read them.


Sent from my iPad using TOL

 

[steko]

You think Jesus was not a man of the human race, and is the antichrist view.

LA

The Lord Jesus was and still is a man, but also more than a man.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

You don't recognize the Lord Jesus as the only possible 'daysman', thus your false jesus, as a man can adequately represent man, but not being GOD cannot reach GOD and place his hand on both.
You have no adequate mediator.

 

[Zeke]

And that takes place in man which is the dwelling place of the most high since souls entered death like the prodigal son came from the Father to be entomb in flesh, the prison/grave of this physical incarnations spoke about in all ancient mythological teachings plagiarized by each culture and perverted into historical events since the third century.

 

[God's Truth]

You think Jesus was not a man of the human race, and is the antichrist view.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Heb 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Heb 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

LA

You have ignorant deductions.

 

[God's Truth]

Its all in the scriptures glorydaz, perhaps you need more time to read them.


Sent from my iPad using TOL

Keypurr, your beliefs have some major problems.

You don't acknowledge that all have their own spirit that lives on and cannot die; a spirit that is themselves.

The Spirit of Christ IS the Spirit of God.

Think about that for a while.

We all have our own spirit, but the Spirit of Christ IS the Spirit of God; thus making Jesus God in bodily form.

 

[God's Truth]

Lol, Messiah is the light of the world and I am the light of the world, (a city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden).

We are called the children of the light, not Thee Light.

1 Thessalonians 5:5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

Ephesians 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light

 

[God's Truth]

Blahahahah, yet another passage that is under dispute!
Are you one of the "KJV Only" people?

As already quoted: NO ONE has seen or beheld Elohim at any time, and that is from two separate NT passages, so how do you understand the "blood of Elohim" if that translation is correct?

I am not a trinitarian, so don't confuse what I say as a defense for their false doctrines. With that in mind, consider that God the Father is Spirit, and His Spirit is the Spirit of the Man Jesus Christ.