Jesus is God

[daqq]

Another example of your foot in mouth disease.

I cut out the ONLY part worth addressing daqq.

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

εἶπεν αὐτοῖς ἰησοῦς ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν πρὶν ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.


I've colour coded the representative words so you have no excuse.
"was born" comes from "γενέσθαι" and means just that.

In fact the Greek word for "was" is in this verse at the very end, as "εἰμί", but as you don't obviously KNOW Greek nor how to properly render and interpret it, this error is not surprising. Greek is NOT translated word to word which ANYONE with a basic knowledge of languages should know.

Please place you call again.
Παρακαλώ τοποθετήστε και πάλι την κλήση σας
Parakaló topothetí ste kai páli tin klísi sas

Hmmm, so "ἐγὼ εἰμί" does not mean "I am", O wise king? :crackup:

:sheep:

 

[keypurr]

You deny scripture.

Luke 2:11 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

Hebrews 10:5 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,

“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;

Not so BR, I just understand scripture different from you. Luke was written many years after the fact. Jesus was not the Christ at his birth, just like Kennedy was not President at his birth.

Christ is a spirit being, like his God, he needed a body to come to us and speak through. Jesus was born to be the Saviour, but Christ came to him at his baptism.

 

[Bright Raven]

Not so BR, I just understand scripture different from you. Luke was written many years after the fact. Jesus was not the Christ at his birth, just like Kennedy was not President at his birth.

Christ is a spirit being, like his God, he needed a body to come to us and speak through. Jesus was born to be the Saviour, but Christ came to him at his baptism.

That's a cop out. Jesus was the Christ from his birth. Scripture says that in Luke 2:11 and you can't change it. Take your black marker and cross out that scripture.

 

[StanJ]

Not so BR, I just understand scripture different from you. Luke was written many years after the fact. Jesus was not the Christ at his birth, just like Kennedy was not President at his birth.

Christ is a spirit being, like his God, he needed a body to come to us and speak through. Jesus was born to be the Saviour, but Christ came to him at his baptism.

More of the supercilious "I know better". :loser:

 

[aikido7]

Yes much of what you have added concerns what I was hinting and pointing at. You may find the same thinking in the "two ways", or sons of light and sons of darkness, in the Didache and at the end of the Epistle of Barnabas. The greater luminary rules the day, (and sons of light) and the lesser luminary rules the night, (and sons of darkness). Yet note that both luminaries are "light" albeit one light is the leukos bright white light and the other is the black light, just as the two precious stones, the Urim and the Thummim, which the High Priest has in the pouch of the ephod breastplate over his heart. The High Priest therefore can give either stone to him who deserves the stone he receives, (because he is vested with the Power of the Most High upon the earth) whether one receives a white-light pebble stone with a new name having been written therein, or whether one receives the black light pebble stone of the blackness of darkness of strong delusion forever. These things the High Priest is now given the right to decide because it is him that divides between the light and the darkness and the sheep and the goats. And in the morning dawn the roosters crow but in the evening dawn the howlers howl, (as at the moon). Shachar is thus the evening dawn in the following passage:

Isaiah 14:12
12. How art thou fallen from heaven, Heylel, son of shachar! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Strong's Ref. #1966
Romanized heylel
Pronounced hay-lale'
from HSN1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:
KJV--lucifer

Strong's Ref. #1984
Romanized halal
Pronounced haw-lal'
a primitive root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence, to make a show, to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causatively, to celebrate; also to stultify:
KJV--(make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool(-ish, -ly), glory, give [light], be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, [sing, be worthy of] praise, rage, renowned, shine.

Strong's Ref. #3214
Romanized ylel
Pronounced yel-ale'
from HSN3213; a howl:
KJV--howling.

Strong's Ref. #3213
Romanized yalal
Pronounced yaw-lal'
a primitive root; to howl (with a wailing tone) or yell (with a boisterous one):
KJV--(make to) howl, be howling.

So it is not the morning dawn of which Isaiah 14:12 speaks, but rather, the dawning which occurs in the beginning of the Hebrew day, which is at sunset. This is the evening light, the evening dawn star, black light of the beginning of the night, and certainly not in reference to Yeshua the Morning Star. And the Master speaks of these two lights in the following way:

Matthew 6:21-23
21. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
22. The luchnos-lamp-light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single-focused, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

See the lamp which lights the inside of the man is the eye: whatsoever we put in front of our eye is therefore spiritual food for the inside of the man. So be careful what you put in front of your eye because if you consume evil things then the "light" inside of you will become great darkness and strong delusion.



It simply does not say that in the Greek texts. Look it up for yourself; "was" is simply a twisting of what is actually there because the so-called scholars do not understand the Testimony of Yeshua and apply it to what they read. Yeshua clearly and emphatically states that all the Prophets and the Torah PROPHESIED until Yochanan. This means that the Torah was not even of full force until Messiah came and interpreted all of it for us. What the passage you quoted actually says is thus:

"Truly, truly, I say unto you, I am before Abraham comes to pass!"

There is no "was" in this statement:

John 8:58 (W/H)
εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.
http://biblehub.com/text/john/8-58.htm

γενέσθαι (genesthai) — 37 Occurrences
http://biblehub.com/greek/genesthai_1096.htm

:sheep:

Hey, you! I really appreciate your posts and your use of the original language of the Bible. You seem to care enough to go as deep as you can and to follow the truth wherever it leads you.

I admire that. I am just too old to take all that trouble. I find it much easier for me to read a lot of conflicting voices of honest and competent historical researchers of the Bible to help me figure out different truths and ideas.

It's the lazy way to study, I realize. Anyway, I just wanted to tip my imaginary hat to you!

 

[aikido7]

Paul signed all his letters in his own hand, so please tell us which letters of his you consider pseudepigrapha? FYI, none of them are in the current 66 books commonly accepted canon of scripture.
In any event, this doesn't answer what I posted about 2 Tim 2:15 now does it?

Check out examples of accepted historical study of Paul's writings. I have seen many times divisions made by historical researchers of the letters that are authentic and those that were written by others (which was, actually, a common practice in ancient times: to sign a teacher's name to your own manuscript).

 

[keypurr]

More of the supercilious "I know better". :loser:

I notice that no Scripture was used in your rebuttal.

 

[keypurr]

That's a cop out. Jesus was the Christ from his birth. Scripture says that in Luke 2:11 and you can't change it. Take your black marker and cross out that scripture.

I thought you were smarter than that BR. I know what it says and I understand the content of it. God would not put the power of his Christ in a baby. Jesus had to grow in wisdom, Christ created the Universe. Think about that.

 

[Aimiel]

The angel didn't say, "One day He will grow up and become Christ, The Lord," though, did he? He was BORN Christ (The Anointed One).

 

[aikido7]

The angel didn't say, "One day He will grow up and become Christ, The Lord," though, did he? He was BORN Christ (The Anointed One).

Isn't Luke the only writer who uses the term "Christ"? Seems to my memory that Matthew called him "Messiah" before he was born.

Of course, "Christ" is the Greek term for "anointed," which is defined as "Messiah." A messiah was to be a military king that would fight the armies of those who had conquered Israel. The idea of a messiah executed as a criminal would have been incomprehensible to Jewish culture.

 

[StanJ]

I notice that no Scripture was used in your rebuttal.

Casting pearls is useless in your case.

 

[Bright Raven]

I thought you were smarter than that BR. I know what it says and I understand the content of it. God would not put the power of his Christ in a baby. Jesus had to grow in wisdom, Christ created the Universe. Think about that.

Like I said, use your black marker and scratch the verse.

 

[StanJ]

Check out examples of accepted historical study of Paul's writings. I have seen many times divisions made by historical researchers of the letters that are authentic and those that were written by others (which was, actually, a common practice in ancient times: to sign a teacher's name to your own manuscript).

I have, as have MANY more qualified actual scholars.
The preponderance of evidence is clear about what Paul wrote.

Dictionary of Paul & His Letters by G.F. Hawthorne, R.P. Martin & D.G. Reid, eds.

 

[StanJ]

Isn't Luke the only writer who uses the term "Christ"? Seems to my memory that Matthew called him "Messiah" before he was born.
Of course, "Christ" is the Greek term for "anointed," which is defined as "Messiah." A messiah was to be a military king that would fight the armies of those who had conquered Israel. The idea of a messiah executed as a criminal would have been incomprehensible to Jewish culture.

There are two words used in the NT... ὁ Χριστός, the Christ, the Anointed One; Μεσσίας, the Messiah,

 

[StanJ]

Hmmm, so "ἐγὼ εἰμί" does not mean "I am", O wise king?

Does it? You're the one that said it was NOT in the verse.

 

[StanJ]

Jesus was born in Bethlehem, he was not at the creation. He is the body prepared for the true son that God sent, Heb 10:5. The inclination of Jesus and Christ took place at the anointing of Jesus, see Acts 10:38. That is when Jesus received the power of Christ. That is when Jesus became the Christ.

Study that for yourself.

Seems you are beginning to vacillate keypurr?

Was Jesus born, incarnate by THE WORD. Matt 1:20, otherwise Matthew lied...do you think Matthew lied?

 

[Sancocho]

Anyone can be confused about a biblical verse but wholesale ignorance of verses, conflicting statements and logic that is incompatible with the Gospel has a diabolic feel to it in my opinion. The RCC has had to take a strong stance against heresies over the centuries and it's good to see others addressing them as well.

 

[keypurr]

Seems you are beginning to vacillate keypurr?

Was Jesus born, incarnate by THE WORD. Matt 1:20, otherwise Matthew lied...do you think Matthew lied?

There is a huge gap between the Holy Spirit and the spirit Christ Stan. That is what you do not see. Jesus was baptized with the Holy Spirit and POWER. Acts 10:38.

 

[keypurr]

Anyone can be confused about a biblical verse but wholesale ignorance of verses, conflicting statements and logic that is incompatible with the Gospel has a diabolic feel to it in my opinion. The RCC has had to take a strong stance against heresies over the centuries and it's good to see others addressing them as well.

True, they used to kill folks who thought in a different way.

 

[Sancocho]

True, they used to kill folks who thought in a different way.

I doubt you have to worry about that now. You should be worried about your soul. The only sin that can't be forgiven is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Denying Jesus divinity and humanity could be dangerous.

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us."