Jesus is God

[daqq]

Only God is good and Jesus is God.

*sigh*

Again, what is your definition of the word "me" in the words of Jesus:
"Why do you call me good? Only God is good."

Hi Aikido,

If you look closely at what I was attempting to explain to Elia immediately before your comments, (yours and GT's on the same previous page which I have quoted) perhaps you may see that the answer is found in what was presented. Only Elohim knows good and evil. YHWH Elohim does not "know" evil, (and "know" is also used for a man "knowing his wife" in the carnal way). It is Elohim in the beginning who divided the Light from the Darkness and therefore has been given the right to divide between the sons of light and the sons of darkness, the sheep and the goats, the good and the evil, and as High Priest over the House of YHWH he has in his ephod breastplate pouch both the white light stone with a new name having been written therein or the black light stone of the blackness of darkness forever. And he will indeed give to each according to his works when he comes; to some the Bright and Morning Dawn Star, but there is one star of the morning dawn and another of the evening dawn. The greater luminary to rule the day, the lesser luminary to rule the night.

Hi Elia,
First off just a slight possible difference with the last portion highlighted from your post: perhaps it is more like that the emissary speaks with the authority of equal force to the one who sent the messenger-emissary, (as opposed to saying the emissary is flat out "equal to the one who sends him"). But more importantly to the other points I have highlighted in your post: we do not read anywhere in the Septuagint that YHWH, (Kurios) "knows good and evil" so you might want to do a little research into the following because I do believe that the Name of YHWH has been inserted by the Masoretes into the text of Genesis 3:22. If the Name is not in the original text then we have nowhere that YHWH is said to "know good and evil" and it is rather only [the] Elohim which know good and evil. The reason I bring this up is because in this passage once again we see the "us" where Elohim says "the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil". This is therefore a critical point imo:

Genesis 3:22-23 KJV
22. And the Lord God [YHWH Elohim] said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23. Therefore the Lord God [YHWH Elohim] sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Genesis 3:22-23 Septuagint (Brenton Translation)
22. And God [ho Theos - Elohim] said, Behold, Adam is become as one of us, to know good and evil, and now lest at any time he stretch forth his hand, and take of the tree of life and eat, and [so] he shall live forever--
23. So the Lord God [Kurios ho Theos - YHWH Elohim] sent him forth out of the garden of Delight to cultivate the ground out of which he was taken.
http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/physis/septuagint-genesis/3.asp?pg=2

When we compare this passage with Genesis 1:26, where Elohim says "Let us make man in our image", we see that man is made in the image of Elohim, plural, (and man is therefore "equal to the Elohim-Angels" in the regeneration). But this does not say that man is made in the image of YHWH; nor is it implied, stated, or suggested anywhere outside of the Masoretic version of Genesis 3:22 that YHWH knows good and evil. In the Masoretic Text you have YHWH Elohim speaking to possibly some Elohim Angels but in the Septuagint you have [the] Elohim speaking as if asking "what if?", (what if now in his fallen state the man eats from the tree of Life and lives forever?) and in the next verse, Genesis 3:23, we have the Father YHWH Elohim sending the man out of Gan Eden so that the "what if?" does not come to pass.

:sheep:

 

[StanJ]

Thank you for being kind.

Thanks, but I call it exhortation.

 

[StanJ]

Only Elohim knows good and evil. YHWH Elohim does not "know" evil, (and "know" is also used for a man "knowing his wife" in the carnal way). It is Elohim in the beginning who divided the Light from the Darkness and therefore has been given the right to divide between the sons of light and the sons of darkness, the sheep and the goats, the good and the evil, and as High Priest over the House of YHWH he has in his ephod breastplate pouch both the white light stone with a new name having been written therein or the black light stone of the blackness of darkness forever. And he will indeed give to each according to his works when he comes; to some the Bright and Morning Dawn Star, but there is one star of the morning dawn and another of the evening dawn. The greater luminary to rule the day, the lesser luminary to rule the night.

Equivocating about physical light and darkness and the meta-physical light and darkness which existed before creation won't work daqq, at least NOT for those that understand the difference. Throwing in transliterated Hebrew words doesn't make your fallacious posts any more accurate or substantive.

GOD is God. The WORD is GOD. The WORD was incarnated (became flesh) in Jesus Christ, who IS our GOD and SAVIOR.

It's very simple really, for those who have faith like a child to accept it.

Matt 18:3 (NIV)

 

[God's Truth]

Thanks, but I call it exhortation.

I know you think that.

 

[aikido7]

Paul signed all his letters in his own hand, so please tell us which letters of his you consider pseudepigrapha? FYI, none of them are in the current 66 books commonly accepted canon of scripture.
In any event, this doesn't answer what I posted about 2 Tim 2:15 now does it?

Whoa, wait a second.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Pauline_epistles

To those who have made a career studying such things, it was not unusual in the ancient world for a student of a great man to write philosophy/theology and attribute it to the man himself.

I don't accept Timothy. The tone and tenor and theology of the radical Paul is compromised and watered down and even contradicted by Timothy.

The inclusion of these other letters has been responsible for some serious misunderstandings and arguments about Paul's intentions.

And as I said, I don't use the term "pseudographia." I think it is obfuscation by historians who are trying not to upset traditional believers.

 

[aikido7]

Hi Aikido,

If you look closely at what I was attempting to explain to Elia immediately before your comments, (yours and GT's on the same previous page which I have quoted) perhaps you may see that the answer is found in what was presented. Only Elohim knows good and evil. YHWH Elohim does not "know" evil, (and "know" is also used for a man "knowing his wife" in the carnal way). It is Elohim in the beginning who divided the Light from the Darkness and therefore has been given the right to divide between the sons of light and the sons of darkness, the sheep and the goats, the good and the evil, and as High Priest over the House of YHWH he has in his ephod breastplate pouch both the white light stone with a new name having been written therein or the black light stone of the blackness of darkness forever. And he will indeed give to each according to his works when he comes; to some the Bright and Morning Dawn Star, but there is one star of the morning dawn and another of the evening dawn. The greater luminary to rule the day, the lesser luminary to rule the night.



:sheep:

Thanks for taking time to lay out these important views. Your "black/white," "good/evil" theology is really close to the Jewish sect that wrote and hided the Dead Sea Scrolls. They talked about "Sons of Light" and "Sons of Darkness."

Did you know that the word "Lucifer" (sometimes used instead of the term "Satan") can be translated to "morning star"?

I remember a woman patient I once took care of and she called kitchen matches "lucifers."

 

[genuineoriginal]

I remember a woman patient I once took care of and she called kitchen matches "lucifers."

Matches were once known as Lucifers.

 

[StanJ]

Whoa, wait a second.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Pauline_epistles
To those who have made a career studying such things, it was not unusual in the ancient world for a student of a great man to write philosophy/theology and attribute it to the man himself.
I don't accept Timothy. The tone and tenor and theology of the radical Paul is compromised and watered down and even contradicted by Timothy.
The inclusion of these other letters has been responsible for some serious misunderstandings and arguments about Paul's intentions.
And as I said, I don't use the term "pseudographia." I think it is obfuscation by historians who are trying not to upset traditional believers.

First of all quoting Wiki for this and ANY theology issue is like using the Living Bible to understand the Greek. It doesn't work.

Find yourself some real scholarly articles and then we'll talk.
Meanwhile read this;

1 Cor 16:21 (NIV) Rom 16:22 (NIV) Gal 6:11 (NIV)

Paul had severe myopia(his thorn in the flesh)and so consequently used scribes to write for him ,but he always wrote some words in his own hand, which is described in Galatians as large letters because of his bad eyesight.

Timothy is a Pastoral Epistle and if you don't accept it then you don't accept God complete written word so we won't go very far.
I suggest you read what Mounce has written on those Pastoral Epistles.

 

[keypurr]

First of all quoting Wiki for this and ANY theology issue is like using the Living Bible to understand the Greek. It doesn't work.
.

Stan, we finely found something to agree on.

 

[Sancocho]

Jimeny crickets, how can anyone ask this question?????

"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

Some claim that Jesus cannot be human and God at the same time, but Jesus died on the cross. He rose establishes indeed that He is always.

 

[daqq]

Thanks for taking time to lay out these important views. Your "black/white," "good/evil" theology is really close to the Jewish sect that wrote and hided the Dead Sea Scrolls. They talked about "Sons of Light" and "Sons of Darkness."

Did you know that the word "Lucifer" (sometimes used instead of the term "Satan") can be translated to "morning star"?

I remember a woman patient I once took care of and she called kitchen matches "lucifers."

Yes much of what you have added concerns what I was hinting and pointing at. You may find the same thinking in the "two ways", or sons of light and sons of darkness, in the Didache and at the end of the Epistle of Barnabas. The greater luminary rules the day, (and sons of light) and the lesser luminary rules the night, (and sons of darkness). Yet note that both luminaries are "light" albeit one light is the leukos bright white light and the other is the black light, just as the two precious stones, the Urim and the Thummim, which the High Priest has in the pouch of the ephod breastplate over his heart. The High Priest therefore can give either stone to him who deserves the stone he receives, (because he is vested with the Power of the Most High upon the earth) whether one receives a white-light pebble stone with a new name having been written therein, or whether one receives the black light pebble stone of the blackness of darkness of strong delusion forever. These things the High Priest is now given the right to decide because it is him that divides between the light and the darkness and the sheep and the goats. And in the morning dawn the roosters crow but in the evening dawn the howlers howl, (as at the moon). Shachar is thus the evening dawn in the following passage:

Isaiah 14:12
12. How art thou fallen from heaven, Heylel, son of shachar! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Strong's Ref. #1966
Romanized heylel
Pronounced hay-lale'
from HSN1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning-star:
KJV--lucifer

Strong's Ref. #1984
Romanized halal
Pronounced haw-lal'
a primitive root; to be clear (orig. of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence, to make a show, to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causatively, to celebrate; also to stultify:
KJV--(make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool(-ish, -ly), glory, give [light], be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, [sing, be worthy of] praise, rage, renowned, shine.

Strong's Ref. #3214
Romanized ylel
Pronounced yel-ale'
from HSN3213; a howl:
KJV--howling.

Strong's Ref. #3213
Romanized yalal
Pronounced yaw-lal'
a primitive root; to howl (with a wailing tone) or yell (with a boisterous one):
KJV--(make to) howl, be howling.

So it is not the morning dawn of which Isaiah 14:12 speaks, but rather, the dawning which occurs in the beginning of the Hebrew day, which is at sunset. This is the evening light, the evening dawn star, black light of the beginning of the night, and certainly not in reference to Yeshua the Morning Star. And the Master speaks of these two lights in the following way:

Matthew 6:21-23
21. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
22. The luchnos-lamp-light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single-focused, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

See the lamp which lights the inside of the man is the eye: whatsoever we put in front of our eye is therefore spiritual food for the inside of the man. So be careful what you put in front of your eye because if you consume evil things then the "light" inside of you will become great darkness and strong delusion.

Jimeny crickets, how can anyone ask this question?????

"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

Some claim that Jesus cannot be human and God at the same time, but Jesus died on the cross. He rose establishes indeed that He is always.

It simply does not say that in the Greek texts. Look it up for yourself; "was" is simply a twisting of what is actually there because the so-called scholars do not understand the Testimony of Yeshua and apply it to what they read. Yeshua clearly and emphatically states that all the Prophets and the Torah PROPHESIED until Yochanan. This means that the Torah was not even of full force until Messiah came and interpreted all of it for us. What the passage you quoted actually says is thus:

"Truly, truly, I say unto you, I am before Abraham comes to pass!"

There is no "was" in this statement:

John 8:58 (W/H)
εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.
http://biblehub.com/text/john/8-58.htm

γενέσθαι (genesthai) — 37 Occurrences
http://biblehub.com/greek/genesthai_1096.htm

:sheep:

 

[StanJ]

Stan, we finely found something to agree on.

Well even broken clocks are right TWICE a day.

 

[StanJ]

It simply does not say that in the Greek texts. Look it up for yourself; "was" is simply a twisting of what is actually there because the so-called scholars do not understand the Testimony of Yeshua and apply it to what they read. Yeshua clearly and emphatically states that all the Prophets and the Torah PROPHESIED until Yochanan. This means that the Torah was not even of full force until Messiah came and interpreted all of it for us. What the passage you quoted actually says is thus:

"Truly, truly, I say unto you, I am before Abraham comes to pass!"

There is no "was" in this statement:

John 8:58 (W/H)
εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.
http://biblehub.com/text/john/8-58.htm

γενέσθαι (genesthai) — 37 Occurrences
http://biblehub.com/greek/genesthai_1096.htm

Another example of your foot in mouth disease.

I cut out the ONLY part worth addressing daqq.

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

εἶπεν αὐτοῖς ἰησοῦς ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν πρὶν ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.


I've colour coded the representative words so you have no excuse.
"was born" comes from "γενέσθαι" and means just that.

In fact the Greek word for "was" is in this verse at the very end, as "εἰμί", but as you don't obviously KNOW Greek nor how to properly render and interpret it, this error is not surprising. Greek is NOT translated word to word which ANYONE with a basic knowledge of languages should know.

Please place you call again.
Παρακαλώ τοποθετήστε και πάλι την κλήση σας
Parakaló topothetí ste kai páli tin klísi sas

 

[keypurr]

Equivocating about physical light and darkness and the meta-physical light and darkness which existed before creation won't work daqq, at least NOT for those that understand the difference. Throwing in transliterated Hebrew words doesn't make your fallacious posts any more accurate or substantive.

GOD is God. The WORD is GOD. The WORD was incarnated (became flesh) in Jesus Christ, who IS our GOD and SAVIOR.

It's very simple really, for those who have faith like a child to accept it.

Matt 18:3 (NIV)

Children also believe in Santa. They blindly believe anything that an adult tells them. You still think like a child Stan.

 

[StanJ]

Children also believe in Santa. They blindly believe anything that an adult tells them. You still think like a child Stan.

 

[keypurr]

Jimeny crickets, how can anyone ask this question?????

"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

Some claim that Jesus cannot be human and God at the same time, but Jesus died on the cross. He rose establishes indeed that He is always.

Who was really speaking? Jesus or the Christ in him?

 

[keypurr]

Another example of your foot in mouth disease.

I cut out the ONLY part worth addressing daqq.

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

εἶπεν αὐτοῖς ἰησοῦς ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν πρὶν ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.


I've colour coded the representative words so you have no excuse.
"was born" comes from "γενέσθαι" and means just that.

In fact the Greek word for "was" is in this verse at the very end, as "εἰμί", but as you don't obviously KNOW Greek nor how to properly render and interpret it, this error is not surprising. Greek is NOT translated word to word which ANYONE with a basic knowledge of languages should know.

Please place you call again.
Παρακαλώ τοποθετήστε και πάλι την κλήση σας
Parakaló topothetí ste kai páli tin klísi sas

You do not understand what some of us see in Jesus and the spirit Christ that was in him. To do so would require that you fully see who and what the express image of God is. Otherwise our words are foolishness to you.

 

[StanJ]

Who was really speaking? Jesus or the Christ in him?

 

[keypurr]

Jesus was born in Bethlehem, he was not at the creation. He is the body prepared for the true son that God sent, Heb 10:5. The inclination of Jesus and Christ took place at the anointing of Jesus, see Acts 10:38. That is when Jesus received the power of Christ. That is when Jesus became the Christ.

Study that for yourself.

 

[Bright Raven]

Jesus was born in Bethlehem, he was not at the creation. He is the body prepared for the true son that God sent, Heb 10:5. The inclination of Jesus and Christ took place at the anointing of Jesus, see Acts 10:38. That is when Jesus received the power of Christ. That is when Jesus became the Christ.

Study that for yourself.

You deny scripture.

Luke 2:11 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

Hebrews 10:5 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,

“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;