Jesus is God

[daqq]

Did you not say the following daqq?

Originally Posted by daqq
It simply does not say that in the Greek texts.
There is no "was" in this statement:

Now DEAL with what I wrote and stop all your pontificating.

Poor blind Pharisee Stan: no reading comprehension whatsoever. No, that is not what I wrote, because you do the same thing with my words that you do with the words of Yeshua and that is to hack them up into little pieces so that you may force your yourself and your own will and desire into what other people have said.

This is what I said:

Originally Posted by daqq
It simply does not say that in the Greek texts. Look it up for yourself; "was" is simply a twisting of what is actually there because the so-called scholars do not understand the Testimony of Yeshua and apply it to what they read. Yeshua clearly and emphatically states that all the Prophets and the Torah PROPHESIED until Yochanan. This means that the Torah was not even of full force until Messiah came and interpreted all of it for us. What the passage you quoted actually says is thus:

"Truly, truly, I say unto you, I am before Abraham comes to pass!"

There is no "was" in this statement:

John 8:58 (W/H)
εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.
http://biblehub.com/text/john/8-58.htm

γενέσθαι (genesthai) — 37 Occurrences
http://biblehub.com/greek/genesthai_1096.htm

:sheep:

Now YOU please deal with what I actually did say and stop lying about what I wrote because I did not say that "eimi" is not in the passage. Instead YOU said that "eimi" is found at the end of the verse, and means "was", and again, anyone who is paying any attention whatsoever knows that you are once again suffering from yet another bought of severe buffoonery. I never said "eimi" is not in the verse because I know that it is; and it is not "eimi" which is rendered as "was" but rather it is "genesthai" which the translator-interpreters render as "was" in John 8:58. Your lack of knowledge and understanding therefore causes you to falsely accuse others once again because you do not understand what they write or say. :kookoo:

:sheep:

 

[StanJ]

Poor blind Pharisee Stan: no reading comprehension whatsoever. No, that is not what I wrote, because you do the same thing with my words that you do with the words of Yeshua and that is to hack them up into little pieces so that you may force your yourself and your own will and desire into what other people have said.
This is what I said:

Well compared to you, a genius I think, but tell me again that you did NOT write these words?

It simply does not say that in the Greek texts.
There is no "was" in this statement:

Now YOU please deal with what I actually did say and stop lying about what I wrote because I did not say that "eimi" is not in the passage. Instead YOU said that "eimi" is found at the end of the verse, and means "was", and again, anyone who is paying any attention whatsoever knows that you are once again suffering from yet another bought of severe buffoonery. I never said "eimi" is not in the verse because I know that it is; and it is not "eimi" which is rendered as "was" but rather it is "genesthai" which the translator-interpreters render as "was" in John 8:58. Your lack of knowledge and understanding therefore causes you to falsely accuse others once again because you do not understand what they write or say.

You actually DID say;

It simply does not say that in the Greek texts.
There is no "was" in this statement:

I am NOT lying but I can get an admin involved to determine who IS lying if you would like?

 

[daqq]

Well compared to you, a genius I think, but tell me again that you did NOT write these words?


You actually DID say;


I am NOT lying but I can get an admin involved to determine who IS lying if you would like?

Originally Posted by daqq
Hmmm, so "ἐγὼ εἰμί" does not mean "I am", O wise king?

Does it? You're the one that said it was NOT in the verse.

As I stated, YOU ARE LYING, I never said "ego eimi" was not in the verse. In fact I have already tried to explain to you that "ego eimi" is "I am" when you stated that "was" is actually "eimi" which is found at the end of the verse. You do not have a clue what you speak of and to save your own skin you would rather spread false reports and lies about what others have said. Since you have now threatened to involve the Admin I have now reported the post above where YOU ARE LYING.

:sheep:

 

[StanJ]

As I stated, YOU ARE LYING, I never said "ego eimi" was not in the verse. In fact I have already tried to explain to you that "ego eimi" is "I am" when you stated that "was" is actually "eimi" which is found at the end of the verse. You do not have a clue what you speak of and to save your own skin you would rather spread false reports and lies about what others have said. Since you have now threatened to involve the Admin I have now reported the post above where YOU ARE LYING.

Obviously you don't remember what you say even when shown it. You said there is no "was" in the statement and I showed you there is and asked you what you thought about the last word that is also translated as was, WHICH is what you tried to assert. It's clear who is LYING but not surprising as you and your ilk are OF the father of lies.
Regardless, you are wrong in so many ways I don't have time to WASTE with you on this one small issue you want to obfuscate the truth with.
:loser:

 

[daqq]

Obviously you don't remember what you say even when shown it. You said there is no "was" in the statement and I showed you there is and asked you what you thought about the last word that is also translated as was, WHICH is what you tried to assert. It's clear who is LYING but not surprising as you and your ilk are OF the father of lies.
Regardless, you are wrong in so many ways I don't have time to WASTE with you on this one small issue you want to obfuscate the truth with.
:loser:

I know exactly what I stated:

There is no "was" in this statement:

John 8:58 (W/H)
εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί.
http://biblehub.com/text/john/8-58.htm

γενέσθαι (genesthai) — 37 Occurrences
http://biblehub.com/greek/genesthai_1096.htm

---------------------------------------------------

Is it my fault you do not read what others post and continually assume?
You were even admonished to CHECK THE LINKS!

ONE OF WHICH CONTAINS:

γενέσθαι (genesthai) — 37 Occurrences

Matthew 20:26 V-ANM
GRK: ὑμῖν μέγας γενέσθαι ἔσται ὑμῶν
NAS: wishes to become great
KJV: whosoever will be great among
INT: you great become let him be your


Matthew 24:6 V-ANM
GRK: Δεῖ γὰρ γενέσθαι ἀλλ' οὔπω
NAS: for [those things] must take place, but [that] is not yet
KJV: [these things] must come to pass, but
INT: it is necessary indeed to take place but not yet


Matthew 26:54 V-ANM
GRK: οὕτως δεῖ γενέσθαι
NAS: [which say] that it must happen this way?
KJV: thus it must be?
INT: thus it must be


Mark 1:17 V-ANM
GRK: ποιήσω ὑμᾶς γενέσθαι ἁλιεῖς ἀνθρώπων
NAS: Me, and I will make you become fishers
KJV: you to become fishers
INT: I will make you to become fishers of men


Mark 10:43 V-ANM
GRK: θέλῃ μέγας γενέσθαι ἐν ὑμῖν
NAS: wishes to become great
KJV: whosoever will be great among
INT: desires great to become among you


Mark 13:7 V-ANM
GRK: θροεῖσθε δεῖ γενέσθαι ἀλλ' οὔπω
NAS: [those things] must take place; but [that is] not yet
KJV: [such things] must needs be; but
INT: be disturbed it must come to pass but not yet [is]


Luke 3:22 V-ANM
GRK: ἐξ οὐρανοῦ γενέσθαι Σὺ εἶ
NAS: and a voice came out of heaven,
KJV: and a voice came from heaven,
INT: out of heaven came You are


Luke 9:36 V-ANM
GRK: ἐν τῷ γενέσθαι τὴν φωνὴν
NAS: the voice had spoken, Jesus
INT: as occurred the voice


Luke 21:9 V-ANM
GRK: γὰρ ταῦτα γενέσθαι πρῶτον ἀλλ'
NAS: must take place first,
KJV: must first come to pass; but the end
INT: for these things take place first but


Luke 23:24 V-ANM
GRK: Πιλᾶτος ἐπέκρινεν γενέσθαι τὸ αἴτημα
NAS: that their demand be granted.
KJV: gave sentence that it should be as they
INT: Pilate ajudged to be done the demand


John 1:12 V-ANM
GRK: τέκνα θεοῦ γενέσθαι τοῖς πιστεύουσιν
NAS: the right to become children
KJV: power to become the sons
INT: children of God to be to those that believe


John 3:9 V-ANM
GRK: δύναται ταῦτα γενέσθαι
KJV: can these things be?
INT: can these things be


John 5:6 V-ANM
GRK: Θέλεις ὑγιὴς γενέσθαι
NAS: to him, Do you wish to get well?
KJV: unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
INT: Desire you well to become


John 8:58 V-ANM
GRK: πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί
NAS: Abraham was born, I am.
KJV: Before Abraham was, I am.
INT: Before Abraham was I am


John 9:27 V-ANM
GRK: αὐτοῦ μαθηταὶ γενέσθαι
NAS: You do not want to become His disciples
KJV: ye also be his disciples?
INT: his disciples to become


John 13:19 V-ANM
GRK: πρὸ τοῦ γενέσθαι ἵνα πιστεύσητε
NAS: you before [it] comes to pass,
KJV: you before it come, that, when
INT: before it comes to pass that you might believe


John 14:29 V-ANM
GRK: ὑμῖν πρὶν γενέσθαι ἵνα ὅταν
NAS: you before it happens, so
KJV: you before it come to pass, that, when
INT: you before it comes to pass that when


Acts 1:22 V-ANM
GRK: σὺν ἡμῖν γενέσθαι ἕνα τούτων
NAS: of these [must] become a witness
KJV: one be ordained to be a witness
INT: with us to become one of these


Acts 4:28 V-ANM
GRK: σου προώρισεν γενέσθαι
NAS: and Your purpose predestined to occur.
KJV: counsel determined before to be done.
INT: of you predetermined to come to pass


Acts 7:39 V-ANM
GRK: ἠθέλησαν ὑπήκοοι γενέσθαι οἱ πατέρες
KJV: not obey, but
INT: would subject be the fathers


Acts 10:40 V-ANM
GRK: αὐτὸν ἐμφανῆ γενέσθαι
NAS: and granted that He become visible,
KJV: day, and shewed him openly;
INT: him manifest to become


Acts 19:21 V-ANM
GRK: Μετὰ τὸ γενέσθαι με ἐκεῖ
NAS: After I have been there,
KJV: After I have been there, I
INT: After having been my there


Acts 20:16 V-ANM
GRK: τῆς πεντηκοστῆς γενέσθαι εἰς Ἰεροσόλυμα
KJV: possible for him, to be at Jerusalem
INT: of Pentecost to be in Jerusalem


Acts 22:17 V-ANM
GRK: τῷ ἱερῷ γενέσθαι με ἐν
NAS: in the temple, that I fell into a trance,
KJV: the temple, I was in a trance;
INT: the temple became I in


Acts 26:29 V-ANM
GRK: μου σήμερον γενέσθαι τοιούτους ὁποῖος
NAS: me this day, might become such
KJV: me this day, were both almost,
INT: me this day should become such as


Acts 27:16 V-ANM
GRK: μόλις περικρατεῖς γενέσθαι τῆς σκάφης
NAS: able to get the [ship's] boat
INT: with difficulty control to gain of the ship


Acts 27:29 V-ANM
GRK: ηὔχοντο ἡμέραν γενέσθαι
INT: they prayed day to come


Romans 4:18 V-ANM
GRK: εἰς τὸ γενέσθαι αὐτὸν πατέρα
NAS: so that he might become a father
KJV: he might become the father
INT: for to become him father


Romans 7:4 V-ANM
GRK: εἰς τὸ γενέσθαι ὑμᾶς ἑτέρῳ
NAS: so that you might be joined to another,
KJV: ye should be married to another,
INT: for to be you to another


1 Corinthians 7:21 V-ANM
GRK: δύνασαι ἐλεύθερος γενέσθαι μᾶλλον χρῆσαι
NAS: also to become free,
KJV: if thou mayest be made free, use
INT: you are able free to become rather use [it]


Philippians 1:13 V-ANM
GRK: ἐν Χριστῷ γενέσθαι ἐν ὅλῳ
NAS: in [the cause of] Christ has become well known
KJV: in Christ are manifest in
INT: in Christ to have become in all


1 Thessalonians 1:7 V-ANM
GRK: ὥστε γενέσθαι ὑμᾶς τύπον
NAS: so that you became an example to all
KJV: So that ye were ensamples to all
INT: so that became you an example


2 John 1:12 V-ANM
GRK: ἀλλὰ ἐλπίζω γενέσθαι πρὸς ὑμᾶς
NAS: but I hope to come to you and speak
INT: but hope to come to you


Revelation 1:1 V-ANM
GRK: ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει
NAS: soon take place; and He sent
KJV: must shortly come to pass; and he sent
INT: what things must take place in quickness


Revelation 1:19 V-PNM/P
GRK: ἃ μέλλει γενέσθαι μετὰ ταῦτα
NAS: are, and the things which will take place after
KJV: the things which shall be hereafter;
INT: the things which are about to take place after these


Revelation 4:1 V-ANM
GRK: ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι μετὰ ταῦτα
NAS: must take place after
KJV: things which must be hereafter.
INT: what things must take place after these things


Revelation 22:6 V-ANM
GRK: ἃ δεῖ γενέσθαι ἐν τάχει
NAS: must soon take place.
KJV: must shortly be done.
INT: the things which must come to pass in quickness

The ONLY justification for the common English interpretation of John 8:58 by the translator-INTERPRETORS is TRINITARIAN DOGMA. There is no "was" in the statement:

"Verily, verily I say unto you, I am before Abraham comes to pass", and the reason you cannot see or understand this is because you cannot see Abraham as representing the Covenant, (and Sarah is likened to Yerushalaim of above) even though Paul tells you in many places that this is true. Likewise you do not believe the statement where Yeshua quotes Exodus 23:20a verbatim and emphatically states that Yochanan is the Malak-Angel of Exodus 23:20 while stating that all the Prophets and the Torah PROPHESIED until Yochanan. What you have abolished in your mind, (Torah) was not even fully implemented until Golgotha when Messiah Yeshua CONFIRMED the Covenants(s). You are so blinded by your dogma that the TRUTH sounds wildly strange and foreign to your plugged up ears. :crackup:

:sheep:

 

[keypurr]

There is the Spirit of Christ, The Holy Spirit and the Father, all rolled into one keypurr.
So do you think taking one verse OUT of the context Peter was speaking in discards what confessed in Matt 16:16?
I see you have been a life long cherry picker.

Your problem is you do not see the Spiritual being Christ.
That is different from the Spirit of Christ.

Your locked into traditional fables, you will never progress in theology until you separate yourself to open your mind.

 

[keypurr]

I doubt you have to worry about that now. You should be worried about your soul. The only sin that can't be forgiven is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Denying Jesus divinity and humanity could be dangerous.

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us."

I am very comfortable with my faith friend. It is not me that has distorted truth. Doctrines of the early church do not hold up under theological study. Jesus was a man, the flesh son of God, he was possessed by the spirit Christ, the express image of God. Christ came with power as he was given the fullness of the Father. The spiritual being Christ became flesh by dwelling in the body prepared for him. Heb 10:5. Jesus was not divine but the Christ in him is a created form of God. Phil 2.

 

[keypurr]

You need to come OUT of the past and start living in the present. That includes all your outdated and refuted beliefs.

It is not me who believes in doctrines from the dark ages, it is you. Your just to blinded to see the light.

 

[Sancocho]

I am very comfortable with my faith friend. It is not me that has distorted truth. Doctrines of the early church do not hold up under theological study. Jesus was a man, the flesh son of God, he was possessed by the spirit Christ, the express image of God. Christ came with power as he was given the fullness of the Father. The spiritual being Christ became flesh by dwelling in the body prepared for him. Heb 10:5. Jesus was not divine but the Christ in him is a created form of God. Phil 2.

Jesus is before Abraham. He is certainly divine.

From my experience those who deny Christ's divinity do so either to distinguish themselves from other denominations or do so in order to relieve a guilty conscience from not repenting of sin or even trying to resist it. These attitudes are the reason why the US is a disgrace among "Christian" nations now.

 

[daqq]

Jesus is before Abraham. He is certainly divine.

From my experience those who deny Christ's divinity do so either to distinguish themselves from other denominations or do so in order to relieve a guilty conscience from not repenting of sin or even trying to resist it. These attitudes are the reason why the US is a disgrace among "Christian" nations now.

From my experience it is these kinds of responses which completely ignore the truth and the facts staring a person right in the face which cause the rest of the world to mock and scoff at the modern form of mainstream Christianity. And by the way, Trinitarianism has been "at the helm" for pretty much the entire duration of the life of this nation; so if anyone is to blame for the social disorder and destruction it is Trinitarianism and its refusal to come to the light of the facts and deal truthfully and honestly with the hard questions that have been asked for centuries. And now Trinitarianism has been forced to devolve into outright paganism to survive, which has spread like spider webs across the entire landscape with the "free grace, and more grace, and the more you sin the more grace abounds" message, which should have been expected from the founders of such easy pleasy cheesy nonsense from the beginning. StanJ is simply a natural byproduct of the social destruction your mother church started long ago. In fact I will blame you and your church for the social destruction but the lunatic fleshmonger "physical-literal only interpretation" Protestants for the upcoming world war three to end all wars, (once again) because of their lunatic WWIII Armageddon Middle East War Maps designed by the weekend warrior prophecy buff Triple Lindsey Hal 9000 super-scholars and lunatic interpretations of all things physical and literal.

 

[Sancocho]

From my experience it is these kinds of responses which completely ignore the truth and the facts staring a person right in the face which cause the rest of the world to mock and scoff at the modern form of mainstream Christianity. And by the way, Trinitarianism has been "at the helm" for pretty much the entire duration of the life of this nation; so if anyone is to blame for the social disorder and destruction it is Trinitarianism and its refusal to come to the light of the facts and deal truthfully and honestly with the hard questions that have been asked for centuries. And now Trinitarianism has been forced to devolve into outright paganism to survive, which has spread like spider webs across the entire landscape with the "free grace, and more grace, and the more you sin the more grace abounds" message, which should have been expected from the founders of such easy pleasy cheesy nonsense from the beginning. StanJ is simply a natural byproduct of the social destruction your mother church started long ago. In fact I will blame you and your church for the social destruction but the lunatic fleshmonger "physical-literal only interpretation" Protestants for the upcoming world war three to end all wars, (once again) because of their lunatic WWIII Armageddon Middle East War Maps designed by the weekend warrior prophecy buff Triple Lindsey Hal 9000 super-scholars and lunatic interpretations of all things physical and literal.

Unfortunately the social demographics do not support any of your claims. A quick review of countries with a comprehensive Concordat show they are less violent than the US, don't promote pornography or prostitution, don't kill their children nor corrupt them in public schools but rather teach them about God from the Bible.

 

[aikido7]

everready,

It's too easy to judge different information as "coming from a false teacher." It is too facile, reactive and gives one an excuse for not thinking things through.

The answer to your question: Yahweh of the Hebrews, of course.

Now do I win that barbecue grill?

 

[aikido7]

Yes I know of Schweitzer, what is your point?

All He is doing here is rewording what he obviously knew of in John 1, but I tend to want God to get all the glory so I use scripture to show the truth of anything. Jesus did the same thing.

I just thought you might enjoy it.

It is one of my favorite passages from a biblical scholar because the guy is writing a poetic statement of his own faith instead of putting down actual historical data (for example, we do not know if Jesus specifically said "Follow thou me," etc.).

Sometimes poetic and sacred language point to truth much more effectively than logic or rationality, don't you think?

 

[THall]

Once again, Jesus is a man, the son of God, not God.

Jesus is the mediator between God and man. 1 Timothy 2:5

Jesus is Lord of God's creation. 1 Corinthians 8:6

Jesus is a High Priest in the order of Melchizedek. Hebrews 5:10

Jesus was the first true witness to God, and the beginning of God's creation. Revelation 3:14

 

[keypurr]

Jesus is before Abraham. He is certainly divine.

From my experience those who deny Christ's divinity do so either to distinguish themselves from other denominations or do so in order to relieve a guilty conscience from not repenting of sin or even trying to resist it. These attitudes are the reason why the US is a disgrace among "Christian" nations now.

So your saying that Jesus was not born in Bethlehem?

Think about that before you snswer. What is a disgrace is the half truths that come from tradition. It's time to get back to God and get rid of traditional churches false doctrines.

 

[keypurr]

Unfortunately the social demographics do not support any of your claims. A quick review of countries with a comprehensive Concordat show they are less violent than the US, don't promote pornography or prostitution, don't kill their children nor corrupt them in public schools but rather teach them about God from the Bible.

Your blinded friend.

 

[keypurr]

Once again, Jesus is a man, the son of God, not God.

Jesus is the mediator between God and man. 1 Timothy 2:5

Jesus is Lord of God's creation. 1 Corinthians 8:6

Jesus is a High Priest in the order of Melchizedek. Hebrews 5:10

Jesus was the first true witness to God, and the beginning of God's creation. Revelation 3:14

You forgot that he is the Lamb of God, the sacrifice to please God for our sins. Is God his own sacrifice?

 

[Sancocho]

So your saying that Jesus was not born in Bethlehem?

Think about that before you snswer. What is a disgrace is the half truths that come from tradition. It's time to get back to God and get rid of traditional churches false doctrines.

You are projecting your lack of understanding and rebellious attitude on me.

Jesus was born in Bethlehem and is before Abraham.

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us."

 

[Sancocho]

Your blinded friend.

Please provide any references to refute my claim.

 

[daqq]

Unfortunately the social demographics do not support any of your claims. A quick review of countries with a comprehensive Concordat show they are less violent than the US, don't promote pornography or prostitution, don't kill their children nor corrupt them in public schools but rather teach them about God from the Bible.

Please provide any references to refute my claim.

You are comparing apples to oranges to hide the truth. All one has to do is look at mother Europe, the birthplace of Trinitarianism, to see what sort of fruit such teachings have produced. And what do we see in mother Europe after seventeen hundred years of Trinitarianism? A society that has already crumbled, collapsed into the dark ages, attempted to climb back up out of the pit, and yet is once again on the verge of collapse and massive upheaval. And do the mothers of mother Europe kill their babies as they do in Amerika? Do the fathers of mother Europe practice sorcery, witchcraft, pornography, prostitution, and every sort of decadence and debauchery? You betcha. But in the next reset mother Europe will be lucky if the hoards of the Mongols are not hunting Trinitarians for lack of food; for their own sons will be their judges, and they have been producing offspring of vipers for far longer than any other. :chuckle: