Jesus is God

[StanJ]

One thing I do not believe in any more is church. I see the true church, not as a building or established religion, but as folks who believe in one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ. Folks who keep the commandments of the Father in the spirit that they were given. Folks who see that Christ came in the flesh to die for us.

Christ is "a" god, a form of God, for he is a creation. Only the Father is not created. My thoughts may seem strange to most Stan, but I believe they are correct as I believe they were given to me to share by something we do not fully understand.

The comforter comes from the Father, through Christ, to us. It is the power of the father. I see it not as a person. But rather a force use to do God's will.

IF you refer to CHURCH as an institution or organization, that has never been THEE church. The church is the Body of Christ and only true believers belong to it.

Christ IS God, and no matter how many time you say A form, it is not true and NOT found in scripture. By scripture, I mean Greek manuscripts, not ANY English translation. Your thoughts are YOUR thoughts, NOT God's word but not strange because many many people over the years have been deceived as your are.

So you also don't agree with the Holy Spirit being God? Jesus called the Holy Spirit 'He', so how is that 'a' force?

 

[StanJ]

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Joh 14:1 "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.

I find you quoting scripture rather disingenuous at best, seeing as you don't accept what it does say when it refutes your assertions, and eisegete what your want it to say at other times. Your debating is dishonest to say the least, especially for a man who purports to know and love God.

Why should we accept your use of scripture when you ignore all that other scripture that people give to you?

 

[MichaelCadry]

Do you believe it?

Dear Bright Raven,

I can just imagine the tons of people who have posted to this. I'm not reading anything except this post. I already know all of the stories and scriptural verse battles.

It is written, "He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest (God); and the Lord God shall give to Him the throne of His father, David: And He shall reign over the house of Jacob {Israel"} forever; and of His kingdom there will be no end." {Luke 1:32KJV}. God is God, Jesus' Father. They are so similar and close to each other, that you could call Jesus God, in certain context. But remember, God is Jesus' Dad. Jesus called Him Father, so cut it everyone. Jesus said, "He who has seen me has seen the Father." God and Jesus are almost identical, for you remember where it is written, 'Do not call me good, My Father in Heaven is good.' Something to that effect. So God And Jesus are nearly the same, but they are two different beings. And now, the Holy Ghost. It is written in Acts that He is a "He." This is why I believe in a Trinity, expressly because the Lord said in Matt. 28:19KJV that Jesus expressly said, 'Go and baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.' Words to that effect. If you want to go and believe something different, then have at it.

I could say more, for there are many other scriptures I quote, but it will be to no avail because man is deceived by Satan, and stubbornly won't change his beliefs all of the time. Words are often like daggers. Well, I'd really best be going.

Bless You All Here,

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :cloud9:

 

[Squeaky]

I find you quoting scripture rather disingenuous at best, seeing as you don't accept what it does say when it refutes your assertions, and eisegete what your want it to say at other times. Your debating is dishonest to say the least, especially for a man who purports to know and love God.

Why should we accept your use of scripture when you ignore all that other scripture that people give to you?

I said
Like these

John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)

John 17:1-3

1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

 

[StanJ]

I said
Like these
John 20:17
John 17:1-3

Squeaky I wasn't addressing you, I was responding to keypurr.

 

[Bright Raven]

I have shown you that Jesus became the Christ.

Study his baptism BR. He received the Holy Spirit and POWER. That power is the express image, the spirit son who has the fullness of the father.

You have never been able to adequately refute Luke 2:11. Can you do it now?

Luke 2:11 Modern English Version (MEV)

11 For unto you is born this day in the City of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

 

[Squeaky]

You have never been able to adequately refute Luke 2:11. Can you do it now?

Luke 2:11 Modern English Version (MEV)

11 For unto you is born this day in the City of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

I said
Why would anyone need to refute that?

 

[StanJ]

I said
Why would anyone need to refute that?

Are you keypurr's personal troll?

 

[glorydaz]

Dear Bright Raven,

I can just imagine the tons of people who have posted to this. I'm not reading anything except this post. I already know all of the stories and scriptural verse battles.

It is written, "He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest (God); and the Lord God shall give to Him the throne of His father, David: And He shall reign over the house of Jacob {Israel"} forever; and of His kingdom there will be no end." {Luke 1:32KJV}. God is God, Jesus' Father. They are so similar and close to each other, that you could call Jesus God, in certain context. But remember, God is Jesus' Dad. Jesus called Him Father, so cut it everyone. Jesus said, "He who has seen me has seen the Father." God and Jesus are almost identical, for you remember where it is written, 'Do not call me good, My Father in Heaven is good.' Something to that effect. So God And Jesus are nearly the same, but they are two different beings. And now, the Holy Ghost. It is written in Acts that He is a "He." This is why I believe in a Trinity, expressly because the Lord said in Matt. 28:19KJV that Jesus expressly said, 'Go and baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.' Words to that effect. If you want to go and believe something different, then have at it.

I could say more, for there are many other scriptures I quote, but it will be to no avail because man is deceived by Satan, and stubbornly won't change his beliefs all of the time. Words are often like daggers. Well, I'd really best be going.

Bless You All Here,

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :cloud9:

You quote half the verses and ignore the other half. A half truth is a full lie. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God. All things were created by Him. You'd better read further....

NAME....not names. One name...Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Why didn't Jesus correct Thomas when he called Him "Lord and God"?

If you can't confess Jesus as Lord and God then you have NO Saviour. This is not open for debate. Your salvation rests on Jesus Christ being Lord and God. Nothing else will do.

 

[Squeaky]

Are you keypurr's personal troll?

I said
We just met. And that is the way you greet the brethren? I greeted you with the word of God(verses). That is called edifying.

 

[Bright Raven]

I said
Why would anyone need to refute that?

Well, Keypurr says that Jesus and the Christ are different. What about you?

 

[StanJ]

I said
We just met. And that is the way you greet the brethren? I greeted you with the word of God(verses). That is called edifying.

Maybe you do...here we say Hello or Hi. I'm not a mind reader and I don't play word games. I also have no idea why you start all your posts with 'I said'

 

[Elia]

Christ IS God, and no matter how many time you say A form,

Bs'd

There is only ONE God who is ONE, and that is not Christ:



Who is the God of Israel? The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

Christianity is very confused about this. A confusion also caused by bad Bible translations. In almost all translations the four lettered name of God, Y-H-W-H, which appears in the Hebrew Bible almost 7000 times, is not mentioned, but replaced by "the LORD".

But here are some Biblical texts which point out WHO is the God of Israel. In these verses the letters of the name of God are written, like in the original Hebrew.


Exodus 29:46 “They will know that I am Y-H-W-H their God, who brought them out of Egypt so that I might dwell among them. I am Y-H-W-H their God.”

Numbers 15:41 “I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of Egypt to be your God. I am Y-H-W-H your God.”

Deuteronomy 10:20-21 “Fear Y-H-W-H your God and serve him. Hold fast to him and take your oaths in his name. He is your praise; he is your God, who performed for you those great and awesome wonders you saw with your own eyes.”

Joshua 24:18 “We too will serve Y-H-W-H , because he is our God.”

II Samuel 22:32 “For who is God besides Y-H-W-H ?”

I Chronicles 16:14 “He is Y-H-W-H our God; his judgments are in all the earth”

II Chronicles 13:10 “As for us, Y-H-W-H is our God, and we have not forsaken him”

Psalm 31:14 “But I trust in you, O Y-H-W-H; I say, "You are my God.”

Psalm 89:6 “For who in the skies above can compare with Y-H-W-H? Who is like Y-H-W-H among the heavenly beings?”

Psalm 91:2 “I will say of Y-H-W-H , "He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.”

Psalm 100:3 “Know that Y-H-W-H is God. It is he who made us.”

Psalm 105:7 “He is Y-H-W-H our God; his judgments are in all the earth;”

Psalm 118:27 “Y-H-W-H is God, and he has made his light shine upon us.”

Psalm 140:6 “O Y-H-W-H, I say to you, "You are my God”

Isaiah 25:1 “O Y-H-W-H, you are my God.”

Isaiah 41:13 “For I am Y-H-W-H , your God;”

Isaiah 43:3 “For I am Y-H-W-H , your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;”

Isaiah 51:15 “For I am Y-H-W-H your God, who churns up the sea so that its waves roar- Y-H-W-H Almighty is his name”

Jeremiah 3:22-23 “Yes, we will come to you, for you are Y-H-W-H our God”

Jeremiah 10:10 “But Y-H-W-H is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King.;”

Jeremiah 31:18 “Restore me, and I will return, because you are Y-H-W-H my God.”

Habakkuk 1:12 “O Y-H-W-H, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die.”



And is there, except for this God Y-H-W-H, any other god?



Deuteronomy 4:35 “You were shown these things so that you might know that Y-H-W-H is God; besides him there is no other.”

Deuteronomy 4:39 “Acknowledge and take to heart this day that Y-H-W-H is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other.”

II Samuel 7:22 “How great you are, O Sovereign Y-H-W-H! There is no one like you, and there is no God but you, as we have heard with our own ears.”

I Kings 8:60 “so that all the peoples of the earth may know that Y-H-W-H is God and that there is no other.”

I Chronicles 17:20 “There is no one like you, O Y-H-W-H, and there is no God but you, as we have heard with our own ears.”

II Chronicles 6:14 “O Y-H-W-H, God of Israel, there is no God like you in heaven or on earth.”

Nehemiah 9:6 “You alone are Y-H-W-H.”

Isaiah 45:21-23 “You are my witnesses," declares Y-H-W-H, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me."

Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.”

Isaiah 45:5-6 “I am Y-H-W-H , and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides me."

Isaiah 45:21-23 “Declare what is to be, present it- let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, Y-H-W-H? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.”

Joel 2:27 “Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am Y-H-W-H your God, and that there is no other;”



Exodus 20:1-3 “And God spoke all these words: "I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME.”

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[keypurr]

You have never been able to adequately refute Luke 2:11. Can you do it now?

Luke 2:11 Modern English Version (MEV)

11 For unto you is born this day in the City of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

Written fifty years later.

President Kennedy was born in Boston. Was he born President?

 

[StanJ]

Bs'd

There is only ONE God who is ONE, and that is not Christ:

Yes, ONE and Triune at the same time. You obviously DON'T understand that YHWH was never meant to be pronounced, which is why it was written the way it was. YHWH does NOT translate into Yahweh nor Jehovah. You don't really understand this tetragrammaton do you?
Here's some scripture you should read.
Jesus said: I and the Father are one.
Jesus said: If you've seen me you've seen the Father.
Jesus said: If you knew me, you would know my Father also.
Jesus said: You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.
Jesus said: If you do not believe that I am He, you will indeed die in your sins.
Jesus said: You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am.
Jesus said: Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
2 Peter 1:11
and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 2:20
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
2 Peter 3:2
I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.
2 Peter 3:18
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
Col 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Col 1:9-10
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.
Titus 1:3
and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,
Titus 1:4
To Titus, my true son in our common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
Titus 2:10
and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.
Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared,
Titus 3:6
whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior
Is 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Is 43:11-12
I, yes I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior. I’ve revealed and saved and proclaimed, when there as no foreign god among you — and you are my witnesses,” declares the LORD.

Jesus Christ is our God and Savior.

 

[Elia]

Yes, ONE and Triune at the same time.

Bs'd

The WHOLE Bible teaches God is one.

NOWHERE is it written that God is "triune" or anything like that.

That is made up by the Christians in order to justify their idol.

Here's some scripture you should read.
Jesus said: I and the Father are one.

So what he said was: 2 = 1. Why believe nonsense like that?

Jesus Christ is our God and Savior.

My God and savior is the one and only true God Y-H-W-H who is ONE, and not triune.

שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.​

And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deut 6:4-9

The Jews until this day fulfill this commandment. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. During the morning and evening prayers the above text is recited which says that God is one.

Y-H-W-H, the one and only God who is one.

Beside Him there is no God, no Buddha, no Christ, no David Koresh; NOBODY.

Whoever worships anything or anybody else than Y-H-W-H is an IDOL WORSHIPER.


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[daqq]

Originally Posted by Bright Raven You have never been able to adequately refute Luke 2:11. Can you do it now?

Luke 2:11 Modern English Version (MEV)

11 For unto you is born this day in the City of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

Written fifty years later.

President Kennedy was born in Boston. Was he born President?

Remember that short discussion with StanJ in your thread Keypurr, about when the definite article is missing before Kurios and how that strongly implies that the Name YHWH is what is intended by the writer because although the Greek uses the article before proper names the Hebrew does not? So the New Covenant writers are using the same technique found in the Septuagint because the same happens in the Septuagint wherever the Tetragrammaton, (YHWH) is replaced with Kurios and the New Covenant authors are thus following the same practice to avoid confusion. This is yet another one of those occasions:

Luke 2:11 Transliterated
11. hoti etechthe humin semeron Soter hos estin Christos Kurios en polei Dauid!

"Christos Kurios" = "Mashiah YHWH" (Not "Christ the Lord")

Mashiah YHWH is a title of both anointed Kings and the anointed High Priest. If I remember correctly this link was also posted in your thread but the same protagonists here likewise refused to read it or even acknowledge it there in the other thread:

MESSIAH - Jewish Encyclopedia
The Name. The name or title of the ideal king of the Messianic age; used also without the article as a proper name—"Mashiaḥ" (in the Babylonian Talmud and in the midrash literature), like Χριστός in the Gospels. The Grecized Μεσσιας of the New Testament (John i. 41, iv. 25) is a transliteration of the Aramaic form, Aramaic being the spoken language of Palestine in the time of Jesus. "The Messiah" (with the article and not in apposition with another word) is, however, not an Old Testament expression, but occurs for the first time in apocalyptic literature. Similarly, in all probability the use of the word "Mashiaḥ" to denote the Messianic king is not found earlier than the apocalyptic literature. In the Old Testament the earliest use of the word is with Yhwh (or with a pronominal suffix referring to Yhwh) as a title of the ruling sovereign Meshiaḥ Yhwh ("God's anointed one"; I Sam. ii. 10, 35; xii. 3, 5; xvi. 6; xxvi. 9, 11, 16, 23; II Sam. i. 14, 16; xix. 21; II Chron. vi. 42; Ps. xviii. 51 [A. V. 50]; xx. 7 [A. V. 6]; cxxxii. 17 [applying to David]; Lam. iv. 20). In post-exilic times, the high priest, filling the place formerly occupied by the king, is spoken of as "ha-Kohen ha-Mashiaḥ" (the anointed priest; Lev. iv. 3, 5, 16; vi. 5), also (Dan. ix. 25, 26) as "Mashiaḥ Nagid" (an anointed one, a ruler) and simply "Mashiaḥ" (an anointed one), referring to Onias III. As the anointing of the high priest consecrated him above all his brethren to God's service and gave him immediate access to God (comp. Lev. viii. 12, xxi. 10-12; Zech. iii. 7), so the anointing of the king made him Meshiaḥ Yhwh, placed him in a special relationship to God, and established him as the one chosen by God to represent His rulership in Israel and to bear witness to His glory before the nations (comp. II Sam. vii. 8-11, 14; Isa. lv. 4; Ps. lxxxix. 4, 21-29). As "God's anointed one" the king was sacrosanct and inviolable (comp. I Sam. xxvi. 9). Hence the later applications of the title "Meshiaḥ Yhwh" in the Old Testament.
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10729-messiah

Thus the statement at the end of Luke 2:11 is in its proper context when understood in the context above, (first century Judaism) and does not make Yeshua "equal to God" in any way.

 

[CherubRam]

Yahshua is a god form Heaven. Yahwah is the only true God. Holy Spirit is a name title for Yahwah our Holy Father.

 

[Elia]

Yahshua is a god form Heaven. Yahwah is the only true God.

Bs'd

There is only ONE God, and not two.

Your believe is polytheism and idolatry.

 

[CherubRam]

Bs'd

The WHOLE Bible teaches God is one.

NOWHERE is it written that God is "triune" or anything like that.

That is made up by the Christians in order to justify their idol.



So what he said was: 2 = 1. Why believe nonsense like that?



My God and savior is the one and only true God Y-H-W-H who is ONE, and not triune.

שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.​

And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deut 6:4-9

The Jews until this day fulfill this commandment. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. During the morning and evening prayers the above text is recited which says that God is one.

Y-H-W-H, the one and only God who is one.

Beside Him there is no God, no Buddha, no Christ, no David Koresh; NOBODY.

Whoever worships anything or anybody else than Y-H-W-H is an IDOL WORSHIPER.


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Worship only God
Matthew 4:10
Yahshua said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship (the Lord / Yahwah) your God, and serve him only.’”

Luke 4:8
Yahshua answered, “It is written: ‘Worship (the Lord / Yahwah) your God and serve him only.’”