Jesus is God

[keypurr]

You answered your own question when you showed the Messiah as human, not God or Godman!

You quoted/agreed with scripture with me without even knowing!

You said it... begotten Son of God!

Webster 1828 Dictionary!!
Beget
BEGET', v.t. pret. begot, begat; pp. begot, begotten.

1. To procreate, as a father or sire; to generate; as, to beget a son.

2. To produce, as an effect; to cause to exist; to generate; as, luxury begets vice.

When was Jesus begotten?


Isaiah 45:5 – "I am the LORD (YHWH) and there is no other, there is no God besides me."

This is pretty simple. YHWH is the ONLY God. So far, so good.

Exodus 3:15 – "Thus shall you say to the Israelites: The LORD (YHWH), the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, has sent me to you."

Okay, the God of your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the LORD (YHWH).

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob = YHWH.

Acts 3:13 – "The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our ancestors, has glorified his servant Jesus."

Your leaving out sooo much scripture to conform the traditions of men to your view!

So... Was Jesus GOD's servant before or after he was begotten?

Now you know... the Messiah/Christ is a servant of GOD! :readthis:

Micah 5:3 – "He shall stand firm and shepherd his flock by the strength of the LORD (YHWH), in the majestic name of the LORD, HIS GOD."

The Messiah/Christ will have a God? Yes! Who will it be? Look at the verse above, YHWH. Does Jesus know that he is supposed to have a God? Of course he knows! Look below, these verses are all Jesus speaking:

John 20:17 - "I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."

Matthew 27:46 - "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"

Revelation 3:12 - "Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God."

Revelation 3:2 - "For I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God."

So Jesus did know that he has a God. As sure as bees buzz. Jesus really needed his God in order to resurrect.

Hebrews 13:20 – "May the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep by the blood of the eternal covenant."

Acts 5:30 – "The God of our ancestors raised Jesus."

Who raised the great shepherd from the dead? The God of peace, the God of our ancestors (which we covered earlier). The Trinitarian alternative is that God raised himself from the dead. But how can God raise himself if he is dead. Then God was not really dead. For that matter, how can you kill God?

If you buy this Trinitarian explanation, then you deserve to be a Trinitarian.

Do you honestly read that verse and think that the great shepherd is God? Remember Micah? The shepherd has a God called YHWH.

Micah 5:3 – "He shall stand firm and shepherd his flock by the strength of the LORD (YHWH), in the majestic name of the LORD, HIS GOD."


oly::sherlock:
Paul

Some will be interested in the truth you display, but he will not.

 

[Pierac]

Hello Paul,

Actually HE does. Right here: ' Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM."

(John 8:58)

Jesus is identifying HIMSELF as the ONE who appeared to Moses in the burning bush...

and those hearing HIM knew exactly what HE was saying, so they tried to stone HIM.

Peace!
PJ

No indeed! Jesus does no such thing...

There has been quite a bit of discussion on John 8:58. What happened to this verse as to confuse so many? Let's start in Exodus.

KJV Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Now we shall read the same verse from the Greek Septuagint

Septuagint Exo 3:14 και ειπεν ο θεος προς μωυσην [εγω ειμι ο ων] και ειπεν ουτως ερεις τοις υιοις ισραηλ [ο ων] απεσταλκεν με προς υμας

Note the two separate Greek words used for 'am'

Concordant Literal Version Exo 3:14 Then Elohim spoke to Moses: I shall come to be just as I am coming to be. And He said: Thus shall you say to the sons of Israel, I-Shall-Come-to-Be has sent me to you.

Now when translated literally you get a whole different look. What happened to the other I am's?

The Hebrew Bible uses the word (hâyâh H1961) in the place of "Am" which is a verb meaning to exist, to be.
Check the Strongs' number.

Clearly Jesus did not say (εγω ειμι ο ων) nor did he state (ο ων), in John 8:58. Jesus spoke the words (εγω ειμι) just like other people in the bible who are not God. So just what was Jesus saying?

So what about the great "I Am him" statement of Jesus you quoted? "Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born I am"?

Surely here Jesus makes the same claim for himself that Jehovah God made back in Exodus 3 where the LORD says to Moses at the burning Bush "I Am Who I Am." Surely Jesus is claiming to be the I AM of the Old Testament as Trinitarian belief asserts?

Now here is something very obvious that they never told you in church. This expression from Jesus' lips "I am" (Greek ego eimi) occurs throughout the Gospel of John and in no other text in John can it mean I AM, the God of the Old Testament.

Go back to John 4:25-26 for instance. The woman at the well said to Jesus, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ); when that one comes, he will declare all things to us." And Jesus said to her, "I who speak with you am he." You will notice that in most Bibles that word he is in italics. This means that the translators have correctly supplied a word in English that is not in the Greek but that nevertheless makes the intended sense quite clear. Here Jesus says to the woman - "I who speak to you am he." In the Greek it reads ego eimi. Jesus simply says I am he, the Messiah. Definitely not “I am is the one speaking to you!”

In John 9 Jesus heals the blind man. Is this really the beggar who used to sit groping in the dark? Some people said, "Yes, it's him all right." Other said, "No, he just looks like him." But the beggar says, " ego eimi!" And the translators have no problem writing, "I am the one." So why aren't the translators consistent? Why not capitalize what this man says as I AM? Because it is clear that he is not claiming to be the God of the Old Testament. Saying "I am" (ego eimi) does not make somebody God in the Bible!

What Jesus is saying is simply “Before Abraham was born, I am he,” that is, "I am the Messiah."

Notice the context in John 8:56 where Jesus says, "Abraham rejoiced to see my day." By faith Abraham looked forward and saw the coming Messiah before he came in history. He believed the promise that God would send the Promised One. On the other hand these Jews did not believe that Jesus was their Messiah. They were claiming to be Abraham's descendents. Jesus said that this was impossible for they did not recognize him as their Messiah. But Jesus asserts that even before Abraham was born, he is the One who was always in God's plan. This Abraham believe and saw. The Messiah preexisted in God's plan and therefore in Abraham's believing mind, because he trusted the promise of God. Jesus positively did not say, before Abraham was, I was." Also, Jesus did not say, “Before Abraham was, I AM WHAT I AM."

The conclusion is inevitable. Jesus’ claim "Before Abraham was born, I am he" is the straightforward claim that he is the long promised one, the Messiah, the One in question. Jesus is the Savior in God's promise even before Abraham was born.

The Jewish leaders were very well aware of what Jesus was saying about himself! Jesus Was not claiming to be God but the Son of God as Shown in John 19:6. They give the very reason they wanted Him dead!

John 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him. 7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Jesus, NEVER claimed to be God!

:sherlock:oly:
Paul

 

[keypurr]

He was talking about himself but that is neither here nor there.

You are wrong Keypurr my friend. As much as it grieves me I agree with beloved 57.

I thought you were smarter than he is BR.

 

[patrick jane]

Some will be interested in the truth you display, but he will not.

keypurr, apparently you have God's Power AND capabilities all figured out. within the finite boundaries of the mind. i'm going to start selecting Scriptures that demonstrate Jesus is God (not tonight). neither side can prove but we can demonstrate. when i read the Bible i see God's plan unfolding throughout. it really is beyond human comprehension, i think. for the purpose of saving mankind God came to earth through Jesus. neither side is provable through science, scripture analysis, linguistics or numerous translations. i look forward to joining the conversation more soon:rapture:

 

[Elia]

Who does the Lord say is the only true God?

Bs'd

That's simple:




Who is the God of Israel? The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

Christianity is very confused about this. A confusion also caused by bad Bible translations. In almost all translations the four lettered name of God, Y-H-W-H, which appears in the Hebrew Bible almost 7000 times, is not mentioned, but replaced by "the LORD".

But here are some Biblical texts which point out WHO is the God of Israel. In these verses the letters of the name of God are written, like in the original Hebrew.


Exodus 29:46 “They will know that I am Y-H-W-H their God, who brought them out of Egypt so that I might dwell among them. I am Y-H-W-H their God.”

Numbers 15:41 “I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of Egypt to be your God. I am Y-H-W-H your God.”

Deuteronomy 10:20-21 “Fear Y-H-W-H your God and serve him. Hold fast to him and take your oaths in his name. He is your praise; he is your God, who performed for you those great and awesome wonders you saw with your own eyes.”

Joshua 24:18 “We too will serve Y-H-W-H , because he is our God.”

II Samuel 22:32 “For who is God besides Y-H-W-H ?”

I Chronicles 16:14 “He is Y-H-W-H our God; his judgments are in all the earth”

II Chronicles 13:10 “As for us, Y-H-W-H is our God, and we have not forsaken him”

Psalm 31:14 “But I trust in you, O Y-H-W-H; I say, "You are my God.”

Psalm 89:6 “For who in the skies above can compare with Y-H-W-H? Who is like Y-H-W-H among the heavenly beings?”

Psalm 91:2 “I will say of Y-H-W-H , "He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.”

Psalm 100:3 “Know that Y-H-W-H is God. It is he who made us.”

Psalm 105:7 “He is Y-H-W-H our God; his judgments are in all the earth;”

Psalm 118:27 “Y-H-W-H is God, and he has made his light shine upon us.”

Psalm 140:6 “O Y-H-W-H, I say to you, "You are my God”

Isaiah 25:1 “O Y-H-W-H, you are my God.”

Isaiah 41:13 “For I am Y-H-W-H , your God;”

Isaiah 43:3 “For I am Y-H-W-H , your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;”

Isaiah 51:15 “For I am Y-H-W-H your God, who churns up the sea so that its waves roar- Y-H-W-H Almighty is his name”

Jeremiah 3:22-23 “Yes, we will come to you, for you are Y-H-W-H our God”

Jeremiah 10:10 “But Y-H-W-H is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King.;”

Jeremiah 31:18 “Restore me, and I will return, because you are Y-H-W-H my God.”

Habakkuk 1:12 “O Y-H-W-H, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die.”



And is there, except for this God Y-H-W-H, any other god?



Deuteronomy 4:35 “You were shown these things so that you might know that Y-H-W-H is God; besides him there is no other.”

Deuteronomy 4:39 “Acknowledge and take to heart this day that Y-H-W-H is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other.”

II Samuel 7:22 “How great you are, O Sovereign Y-H-W-H! There is no one like you, and there is no God but you, as we have heard with our own ears.”

I Kings 8:60 “so that all the peoples of the earth may know that Y-H-W-H is God and that there is no other.”

I Chronicles 17:20 “There is no one like you, O Y-H-W-H, and there is no God but you, as we have heard with our own ears.”

II Chronicles 6:14 “O Y-H-W-H, God of Israel, there is no God like you in heaven or on earth.”

Nehemiah 9:6 “You alone are Y-H-W-H.”

Isaiah 45:21-23 “You are my witnesses," declares Y-H-W-H, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me."

Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.”

Isaiah 45:5-6 “I am Y-H-W-H , and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides me."

Isaiah 45:21-23 “Declare what is to be, present it- let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, Y-H-W-H? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.”

Joel 2:27 “Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am Y-H-W-H your God, and that there is no other;”



Exodus 20:1-3 “And God spoke all these words: "I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME.”




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[patrick jane]

Christianity is superior to Judaism. any other faith for that matter. pray for spiritual wisdom my friend:rapture:

 

[TulipBee]

To illustrate why the anti-trinitarians can't add up Jesus is God :
2 is in the bible in bible in plain view and 3 is in the bible in plain view but 5 isn't in the bible. Trinitarians are great math solvers. They saw that 2+3=5. The anti trinitarians are terrible in math. They can't see 5 at all. They have no clue 2 and 3 could be added up. They see 2+3=2+3.

 

[Elia]

Christianity is superior to Judaism. any other faith for that matter. pray for spiritual wisdom my friend:rapture:

Bs'd

The difference between Judaism and Christianity is that Jews can count to two, and Christians not.

Christians think that 1 + 1 = 1, and Jews know that 1 + 1 = 2.

Jews know that a "God the Father" and a "god the son" is TWO (2) gods, and Christians, holding on to their "1 + 1 = 1, think that they worship only one God, while they are worshiping a God the Father and a god the son.

The difference between Judaism and Christianity is the difference between worshiping the one true God who is one and idolatry.

Pray that God will give you the wisdom to count to two.




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[keypurr]

keypurr, apparently you have God's Power AND capabilities all figured out. within the finite boundaries of the mind. i'm going to start selecting Scriptures that demonstrate Jesus is God (not tonight). neither side can prove but we can demonstrate. when i read the Bible i see God's plan unfolding throughout. it really is beyond human comprehension, i think. for the purpose of saving mankind God came to earth through Jesus. neither side is provable through science, scripture analysis, linguistics or numerous translations. i look forward to joining the conversation more soon:rapture:

I welcome your input friend but keep in mind that I was a trin for about fifty years. So what you find might be old hat stuff to me. Together we may learn something.

Peace

 

[keypurr]

I have already showed you a verse that says Jesus Christ is God, you don't believe the verse, read my thread ! You haven't been able to show me a scripture that says Jesus Christ is not God and this has been for years now !

No you have not B57. If you study each verse you will see that there is no verse that shows us the Jesus is God. He is Lord because his God made him Lord. The English translations have done a great job to hoodwink you and many others.

Come back when you find a verse that shows that Jesus is the most high God.

 

[beloved57]

No you have not B57. If you study each verse you will see that there is no verse that shows us the Jesus is God. He is Lord because his God made him Lord. The English translations have done a great job to hoodwink you and many others.

Come back when you find a verse that shows that Jesus is the most high God.

Yeah I have, but you have never showed me a verse that says Jesus Christ is not God !

 

[patrick jane]

I welcome your input friend but keep in mind that I was a trin for about fifty years. So what you find might be old hat stuff to me. Together we may learn something.

Peace

what changed your mind after 50+ years ?

 

[keypurr]

Yeah I have, but you have never showed me a verse that says Jesus Christ is not God !

Col 1:15, Heb 1:3, Thess 1:2, tim 1:2, Phil 1:3, James 1:1, 1 Peter 1:3, 2 Peter 1:2, 1 John 2:1, i could go on and on. You do notice that it says God AND Jesus. If there is only one God as Jesus says then Jesus is NOT God.

Simple logic. God and Jesus, one God and one Lord. Just as Paul says. Jesus Christ has a God, so how can he be God. Christ the true son of God is a god, but not God. All the power that Christ has was given to him by his God.

 

[keypurr]

what changed your mind after 50+ years ?

Truth in the scriptures. There is only one God and Jesus has a God. Christ was sent by his God to deliver us from sin. Christ is the express image on the Father as told in Heb 1. He is a created form of God, a god. He answers to his God. Christ is a spirit like his creator. God created everything through his FIRST creation Christ.

 

[patrick jane]

To illustrate why the anti-trinitarians can't add up Jesus is God :
2 is in the bible in bible in plain view and 3 is in the bible in plain view but 5 isn't in the bible. Trinitarians are great math solvers. They saw that 2+3=5. The anti trinitarians are terrible in math. They can't see 5 at all. They have no clue 2 and 3 could be added up. They see 2+3=2+3.

i see three without, mathematics even being a factor - everyone seems to want ism or ist, or anti this or that. i don't label myself or others. people focus on one particular part of the Bible and can't seem to see it in it's totallity. so what's your label TulipBee ?:rapture:

 

[TulipBee]

i see three without, mathematics even being a factor - everyone seems to want ism or ist, or anti this or that. i don't label myself or others. people focus on one particular part of the Bible and can't seem to see it in it's totallity. so what's your label TulipBee ?:rapture:

My label is Jesus is God but was said in different ways without the direct Jesus is God

 

[keypurr]

My label is Jesus is God but was said in different ways without the direct Jesus is God

Jamie posted this and it is good.

Some people claim that Jesus is God, but if that were true why would Jesus say that God is greater than he?

How can God be greater than God?

 

[beloved57]

Col 1:15, Heb 1:3, Thess 1:2, tim 1:2, Phil 1:3, James 1:1, 1 Peter 1:3, 2 Peter 1:2, 1 John 2:1, i could go on and on. You do notice that it says God AND Jesus. If there is only one God as Jesus says then Jesus is NOT God.

Simple logic. God and Jesus, one God and one Lord. Just as Paul says. Jesus Christ has a God, so how can he be God. Christ the true son of God is a god, but not God. All the power that Christ has was given to him by his God.

None of the verses you quoted say that Jesus Christ is not God !

 

[patrick jane]

yeah, what he said. even John 1:1 says it. i don't think we will find the words "Jesus is God" or "Jesus is not God". it's shown throughout the Bible, 1 Corinthians 2:10. feel it

 

[TulipBee]

i see three without, mathematics even being a factor - everyone seems to want ism or ist, or anti this or that. i don't label myself or others. people focus on one particular part of the Bible and can't seem to see it in it's totallity. so what's your label TulipBee ?:rapture:

There are no > or < in the timeless world. If greater, >, or lesser, <, is true in heaven, the timeless dimension, then that would mean there's a point A and a point B. Point A to point B means there a space between them. If there's space, there's time. God's time is timeless and that includes spaceless. Anti trinitarians treat God as a moveable object and pushes Him aside to make room for themselves. They don't accept simultaneous meaning spaceless and timeless.
There's space in math. Trinity are simultaneous. Jesus has always been and will always be. Anti-trinitarians have absolutely no clue what eternity means.

The big bang ain't the beginning.

There is a parallel dimension but it ain't the third dimension like in 3d space.

No need for God to be greater than Himself but Jesus has always been. Of course He wasn't a created being. No need for Jesus to create Himself either.

So, welcome to heaven, Elects !