Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

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Idolater

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Dartman said:
Sadly, this isn't surprising.
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You're the first person I've ever met who believes that those Apostolic verbatim quotations of our Lord, mean that once He's alive again, that then He'll simply get up. That's just not even worth saying. All He'd have to say is that He's going to be raised from the dead. There's no earthly reason to say that once He's been raised from the dead, that then He'll, you know, get up and move around again. Of course He'd do that, even if your view's right, He's going to do that, because, you know, He's going to be alive again, so of course He's, you know, going to do the things you do when you're alive. Your view has it that this is what He meant, and that's what I'm saying I can't accept it. It strains my suspension of disbelief, as I work to understand you. I can't go where you are, mentally, intellectually, because it's quicksand. If you want me to throw a branch or call your folks to help you out I will.
Dartman said:
Are you aware the New Testament was written in Greek?
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I am in my third decade of being aware of the quote-unquote Greek New Testament. Do you know that the Greek version of the Old Testament that was circulating at the time of the Apostles, the Septuagint, had 46 books, and not just the 39 as published in many Protestant Bibles? Every Catholic and Orthodox Bible has the full Septuagint as the Old Testament though, which is exactly what the earliest Church used. It was the Septuagint that Paul was talking about in 2nd Timothy 3:15-17 KJV, specifically, for example.
Dartman said:
And, that ANY translation you have converts MANY of the Greek pronouns according to English rules of grammar?
Early English translations did a more accurate job translating the Greek;

Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men

Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,

Geneva 1587:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.

And now our modern Concordant Literal Version:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. " 2 This was in the beginning toward God. 3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being." 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men."


The holy spirit is God's spirit, God's power, and God's mind. It is NOT a separate person, IT is an attribute of the ONLY true God.

It can be given to others ..... which gives them God's thinking, and God's power, to varying degrees.
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idk why you quoted "Joh 1:1" when we're talking about whether the Spirit is a "He" or "an it." Now clearly the Spirit is a Person, since He speaks, 1st Timothy 4:1 KJV, and does any Person Who speaks, have the pronoun "It?" I say, "No, never," but you disagree with me, and I don't know what to make of that, except that you're in quicksand, and do you want some help getting out? Maybe your local police department can send you some uniforms who can help get you out of there.
 
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clefty

New member
Idolater said:
I believe that it is Apostolic tradition, being theologically Catholic, and so I don't accept that 'filioque' is "of man," but instead "of God."
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believing what one is of course is a choice no matter how early one is baptized into it...but once chosen even the flying speghetti monster has traditions must believed in

And as for what was established by God, I put right up near the top the hierarchy of pastors, the bishops, who were invented by the Apostles themselves, and are mentioned in numerous places in the New Testament, including but not limited to 1st Timothy 3:1 KJV.
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yes any tradition has its heirarchy to perform its pomp and ceremony...some more faithful than others...some being wolves in sheep’s clothing...others false prophets...some even considered anti-pope...like the one current

I don't miss that, I just don't put a lot of weight onto it.
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you can’t...your self claimed authority would be exposed...

Fact is that apart from the 'filioque,' all validly ordained /consecrated /appointed bishops agree on the Trinity.
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hanging a coat of lies on a broken hanger...

For those lay faithful who do not agree with the bishops, then they are objectively incorrect. See above re: the bishops were established by God (through the Apostles).
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indeed...we only recently were “permitted” to actually read the code ourselves...protected prior from our own errors of course...


Non-Trinitarians must see logical fallacy in the Trinity, otherwise you'd be Trinitarian. iow you're just begging the question.
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Trinitarians must see the trinity...and even they within themselves don’t agree the order or progression or roles...is why you don’t CAN’T put a lot of weight onto it...

There are the passages John 14:26 KJV and John 15:26 KJV also to consider I think.
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much was given to us that is NOT understood or has been altered...

in the first text the Father sends in His Name...in the other He Himself sends...the very issue that broke the church...
 
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SonOfCaleb

Active member
The name Jesus means "Jehovah Is Salvation". Thus its self evident from Jesus own name that Jesus is NOT Jehovah and both are seperate beings, Jesus being subordinate to Jehovah.
 
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clefty

New member
Dartman said:
Jehovah/YHVH God's
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LOL...which is it?

commandment before the flood was;
Gen 1:29-30 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food: 30 and to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the heavens, and to everything that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, (I have given) every green herb for food: and it was so.
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yup a description of life with Him...happily the command to breath was unnecessary as some would rebel against that too...

AFTER the flood THIS is Jehovah's commandment;
Gen 9:2-4 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every bird of the heavens. With all wherewith the ground teemeth, and all the fishes of the sea, into your hand are they delivered. 3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be food for you. As the green herb have I given you all. 4 But flesh with the life thereof, (which is) the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
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The prior law was not abrogated...they could still abide to it...thereby keep the “new” NO BLOOD amendment too...


What happened to the first dietary commandment? (The second was, do NOT eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil Gen 2:17)
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What happened? NOTHING...it remains...and describes what life will be like when we return to our factory setting...our default settings before we went on this detour of sin and fall...it awaits us in the new heaven and the new earth...is why some of us practice it already here and now...ya know to prepare for that lifestyle...in case He let’s us in...

Were the tree of knowledge of good and evil still present would you eat of it?...
 
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clefty

New member
SonOfCaleb said:
The name Jesus means "Jehovah Is Salvation". Thus its self evident from Jesus own name that Jesus is NOT Jehovah and both are seperate beings, Jesus being subordinate to Jehovah.
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Close...but off the mark...which is a sin...ha

The letter “J” is a recent (15th century) linguistic tool...

The sound in English even more so...the j in German is soft...like the Spanish Juan

YHWH or JHWH was given the vowels of ADONI and thus came up with Jehovah

NKJV has it as Yah Psalms 68:4 Is 12:2

Elijah is El i Yah which means god is Yah
Elisha is El is Sha which meants god is salvation

Yah + sha = Yah’s Son “Yahsha” {or Joshua being a better English translation} which means Yah is salvation

So Yah is salvation at the birth of His begotten Son Yahushua

“Jesus” means nothing...

Names matter:

https://youtu.be/HUs8f-lphec
 
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clefty

New member
clefty said:
Close...but off the mark...which is a sin...ha

The letter “J” is a recent (15th century) linguistic tool...

The sound in English even more so...the j in German is soft...like the Spanish Juan

YHWH or JHWH was given the vowels of ADONI and thus came up with Jehovah

NKJV has it as Yah Psalms 68:4 Is 12:2

Elijah is El i Yah which means god is Yah
Elisha is El is Sha which meants god is salvation

Yah + sha = Yah’s Son “Yahsha” {or Joshua being a better English translation} which means Yah is salvation

So Yah is salvation at the birth of His begotten Son Yahushua

“Jesus” means nothing...

Names matter:

https://youtu.be/HUs8f-lphec
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Oh and

And since these times are all PC and supporting and celebrating ethnic heritages (some) and honoring races (some) and multiculturalism and diversity (in some countries)...

I sure dont want to be racist or anti semitic...is why I dont call Him Jesus Christ...that is ROMAN colonizing WESTERN CIV...cultural appropriation etc et al...

LOL
 
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SabathMoon

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Banned
Someone had to written a hidden reply to me. Is it because I say belief in the trinity is not required?
 
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Dartman

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clefty said:
LOL...which is it?
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Ex 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
C said:
yup a description of life with Him...happily the command to breath was unnecessary as some would rebel against that too...
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I'm sorry, I don't know of any commandment to "breath"......what are you talking about?
C said:
The prior law was not abrogated...they could still abide to it...thereby keep the “new” NO BLOOD amendment too...
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Sure, and WE have the liberty to choose a dietary plan that suits us ..... STILL "no blood", or "things strangled".
The Israelites could have chosen to only eat herbs and fruit .... and been compliant with the first commandment AND the Mosaic Law ..... except they were commanded to kill and eat the passover lamb ....so, that wouldn't QUITE work.

Jehovah/YHVH God has the authority to change any commandments He wishes.
 
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clefty

New member
Dartman said:
Ex 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
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obviously you are free to choose...or?


I'm sorry, I don't know of any commandment to "breath"......what are you talking about?
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Is why I said “happily THAT commandment was not necessary”...as some stiff necks would look for ways around it as well...

Your edenic dietary law is rarely listed as the 11th commandment or mentioned at all...as to what was expected...kinda like not killing...well until that happened too...not mentioned in Eden but...

By the time it got to hebrews oppressed in Egypt and in the desert...a reminder was necessary...a reminder as to what life was like where “I AM”




Sure, and WE have the liberty to choose a dietary plan that suits us ..... STILL "no blood", or "things strangled".
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Don’t forget the meat offered to idols. Oh and the Sabbath as James assumed these crowding gentiles would continue to hear Moses preached and taught...in every city every Sabbath.

Is why Heb 4:9


The Israelites could have chosen to only eat herbs and fruit .... and been compliant with the first commandment AND the Mosaic Law ..... except they were commanded to kill and eat the passover lamb ....so, that wouldn't QUITE work.
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that is true...and by the morning before the next day began...as all thank offerings were supposed to be eaten...oh and not a sin offering but a thanks for passing over us offering...
Passover couldn’t be a sin offering as they were not clear on what sin was...NO LAW to point it out to them was yet given...

Jehovah/YHVH God has the authority to change any commandments He wishes.
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Jehovah maybe

but not Yah...lol

Yah couldn’t change His law or else He would have spared His Son...

Thing about Yah...HIS LOVE...is that it doesn’t change...His law is Him...and describes where “I AM”...

If Jehovah can change His laws...well that changes Who He is...changing...changeable...author of confusion...

I will stick to Yah...

As did Paul keeping Sabbaths and Peter keeping kosher even...

Or you think NOT strangling a swine makes it clean? Or draining its blood? Or NOT offering it to images?

Swine remains unclean to Yah...NOT to be served at potlucks after Sabbath fellowships...

But I hear SUNDAY HAM is pretty popular...for Jehovah?...
 
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SonOfCaleb

Active member
clefty said:
Yah + sha = Yah’s Son “Yahsha” {or Joshua being a better English translation} which means Yah is salvation
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I'm well aware of the linguistic origins of the name Jesus. But i'm clearly talking about the etymology of the name which you agree with. So linguistics aside which is not relavent to the etymology or meaning of the name the name Jesus (Anglicized) or Yashua Hebrew means Jehovah or Yehovah is salvation. This is WELL known in academic and theological circles, the pertinent point being, and to the OP's point Jesus is NOT Jehovah which is perfectly self evident by his name alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjpGXSyIqTc&t=0s&list=PLnJ2B5XEcp-nA-T0WzwvVHJs7Q3uSS5U6&index=9

Suggest you watch this video if you're actually interested in scholarly sources proving the etymology of Jesus name.
 
genuineoriginal

genuineoriginal

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Dartman said:
Jehovah/YHVH God has the authority to change any commandments He wishes.
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Your thinking about the commandments are in error.
The commandments of God will not be changed, even by God.

The earthly example of this is found in the law of the Meded and the Persians.
Once the king made a decree or statute, no one, not even the king, could change it.

Daniel 6:15
15 Then these men assembled unto the king, and said unto the king, Know, O king, that the law of the Medes and Persians is, That no decree nor statute which the king establisheth may be changed.​


When the king made a law that all the Jews were to be killed on a particular day, no one, not even the king, could change that law.

Esther 3:12-13
12 Then were the king's scribes called on the thirteenth day of the first month, and there was written according to all that Haman had commanded unto the king's lieutenants, and to the governors that were over every province, and to the rulers of every people of every province according to the writing thereof, and to every people after their language; in the name of king Ahasuerus was it written, and sealed with the king's ring.
13 And the letters were sent by posts into all the king's provinces, to destroy, to kill, and to cause to perish, all Jews, both young and old, little children and women, in one day, even upon the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, which is the month Adar, and to take the spoil of them for a prey.​


Esther 8:8
8 Write ye also for the Jews, as it liketh you, in the king's name, and seal it with the king's ring: for the writing which is written in the king's name, and sealed with the king's ring, may no man reverse.​

However, the king can make a new law that can alter the effects of the previous law.

Esther 8:10-12
10 And he wrote in the king Ahasuerus' name, and sealed it with the king's ring, and sent letters by posts on horseback, and riders on mules, camels, and young dromedaries:
11 Wherein the king granted the Jews which were in every city to gather themselves together, and to stand for their life, to destroy, to slay and to cause to perish, all the power of the people and province that would assault them, both little ones and women, and to take the spoil of them for a prey,
12 Upon one day in all the provinces of king Ahasuerus, namely, upon the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, which is the month Adar.​


In the same way, the commandments from the first covenant have not been changed, but a new covenant has been established that can alter the effects of the first covenant.

Hebrews 8:7-11
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.​

 
Apple7

Apple7

New member
TrevorL said:
Greetings again Apple7, You seem confused here. I worship and bow the knee to Jesus, the Son of God, to the glory of God the Father Philippians 2:10-11. Y

Kind regards
Trevor
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'The Glory' of The Father is NOT The Father!

'The Glory' is The Son!

If you are in doubt to this cold, hard fact, then review John 1.


How long have you been worshiping The Son, Trev...?
 
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