Jadespring and 's/he-is-all-in-all'

[Jadespring]

You may think you have the power to unsay what you say, but please allow me to stick with the title of the thread. Your powers to requote people don't extend to everyone.

Wow. This is amazing.
How can yu sit here and actually say that you're views on God are not in this thread at all?
Unbelievable. They're stated all over the place.

How can I simplify this udnerstanding.

Nin. We having an argument about views contray to yours. Hence you'rs are in here too.

You sound like a pagan. I'm sorry, but it's true I truly wish you didn't. I'm more concerned with your use of Christian than "(Other)" or "Protestant". That's why I started this thread.

And yet. I'm not.
I'm not the one having trouble here. And you wishing it isn't going to help change anything.

I have asked you about "s/he-is-all-in-all", I've replied to everything you have quoted. Except the RCC texts you quote. I have tried to explain "s/he-is-all-in-all" really isn't. You want to "spiritualize" and speak "esoterically", but how can you ignore the statements God makes on their face and play like esoterically spiriualizing it can usay it all?

We've covered this question before. I am not ignoring anything.
I am not the one who is having problems understanding things here.

You are cutting and pasting the same talking points dave would. You have not refuted anything by merely claiming I have to esoterically spiritualize what God says to understand it. You don't have the authority to change God's rules. Not literally, and not literally by saying it's in an esoteric spiritual way.

I'm not cutting and pasting anything.
And I have refuted. You are just refusing to accept any of it or all failing to understand. I don't know which. Not much more I can do,

Nin. Let's go back shall we.
You are a literalist. I am not.
You have constantly ignored this as being the root of any of the issues we speak about and have yet to address this issue.
I am not changing any rules here. I read. I listen. I understand. I mull. I discern and my final authority is God.
However you seem to have it in your mind that for some reason or another that you have the ability to step into his shoes and determine who and in this case me is or is not worthy of his blessing. Primarily because we use different language and that my faith is not something that you either fully understand or perhaps are familiar with.
Who gives you the authority to judge in the way that you are doing and determine that I am not living in Christ? It seems to be that the criteria is that everyone in order to live properly as a Christian must agree exactly to the letter as you? Is this the case?
I stated quite clearly my beliefs that Christ is the word made flesh and the way to salvation.
If its more then that why don't you just make it easy on everyone. State your criteria with the disclaimer that anyone who does not believe this way isn't in the club and be done with it.

You are ignoring more than you realize

Your opinion.

Good What's the name of it?

What is a Christian

What you say about God, and what He says are two totally different things. And no, you don't sound like any Protestant I have ever heard. I have heard your beliefs from buddhists and folks who have taken fem-homo theology, like dave miller.

:crackup:
So just because you haven't heard other protestants speak like me? Oh well, of course then that settles it. It must not be true then. That is a truely self centered statement. I'm really sorry but it is. The world is a vast place...just because one doesn't know of things doesn't mean that they don't exist or hold any validity.
So here I am. A protestant Christian, one of numerous, hundreds, thousands, telling you that yes many Protestants do speak and sound this way and it's not 'pagan" and that we live our lives in relationship with Christ.

And I really don't give a hoot that you've heard simliar stuff from Buddhists or make assumptions that I've got some fem-homo(whatever you call them) theology tomes sitting in front of me that I'm quoting out of. What the heck does you hearing or knowing of things in any way make them more true or not or make them any less valid?

 

[Nineveh]

So theologically, we have a problem. Either God, in God's Infinite Wholeness, has both male and female attributes, and thus is capable of producing life as we know it through Divine Will, or we must accept a godess partner to God through which life was brought forth. To say that God is wholly male and produces life in abundance from
God's male nature alone just doesn't hold water at all.

Yes, it appears you do have a problem. Either your god is transgendered or it needs to have a goddess too.

I guess we can ignore John 1:1 just to stand in awe of your dilemma.

 

[Jadespring]

Yes, it appears you do have a problem. Either your god is transgendered or it needs to have a goddess too.

Nin did you actually read the info about how God decided to name God in the OTand the prnouns in the NT?
In Hebrew. It's english that causes us the problems.

There is absolutely nothing unbiblical about conceptualize God in a gender neutral fashion. Do you not want to speak of God in the way that God decided to call him/her/it/self?

"Gender neutral." S/he, it, they (only words we have to convey this in English)
Not transgendered

This has been covered already and you're argument refuted. Unless you wish to argue against the Hebrew language.

 

[Nineveh]

Wow. This is amazing.
How can yu sit here and actually say that you're views on God are not in this thread at all?
Unbelievable. They're stated all over the place.

How can I simplify this udnerstanding.

Nin. We having an argument about views contray to yours. Hence you'rs are in here too.

I have quotes Scripture in context and asked you how you can believe the exact oppsite. So far no luck in getting an answer to that. You seem to need to swap the topic onto denoms. Like denominational dogma means a thing. I already asked you for the name of your denom thread...

:crackup:
So just because you haven't heard other protestants speak like me? Oh well, of course then that settles it. It must not be true then. That is a truely self centered statement. I'm really sorry but it is. The world is a vast place...just because one doesn't know of things doesn't mean that they don't exist or hold any validity.
So here I am. A protestant Christian, one of numerous, hundreds, thousands, telling you that yes many Protestants do speak and sound this way and it's not 'pagan" and that we live our lives in relationship with Christ.

Call youself as you like, you started out as "Chriatian (Other)" and ..what? "realized" you made mistake and changed it? At this point it doesn't matter what you call yourself. I care in as far as who you claim to speak for.

And I really don't give a hoot that you've heard simliar stuff from Buddhists or make assumptions that I've got some fem-homo(whatever you call them) theology tomes sitting in front of me that I'm quoting out of. What the heck does you hearing or knowing of things in any way make them more true or not or make them any less valid?

Don't you ever get tired of just jabbering around the topic?

The topic, which you seem to have lost in your paragraphs there, is how you can take what a Holy and Just God says on the face of it and "esoterically spiritualize" it to mean the opposite.

 

[Nineveh]

"Gender neutral." S/he, it, they (only words we have to convey this in English) Not transgendered

Welcome to the "gender neutral" Bible, folks.

If god is s/he-is-all-in-all it is transgendered. You named it, not me.

 

[Jadespring]

Freak I believe this is part of what Nineveh took issue with. God is only refered to as a male figure with some possible feminised attributes but male none-the-less. But God is never known in the Bible as S/he..... only as He.

In Hebrew and in some of the greek God is refered to in gender neutral terms. Many of his names are gender neutral.

In English and latin it gets translated to he.

This is not a foreign concept to God.

S/he is used to convey gender neutrality. NOT a transgendered image.

 

[Jadespring]

Welcome to the "gender neutral" Bible, folks.

If god is s/he-is-all-in-all it is transgendered. You named it, not me.

Welcome to the reality of Hebrew and language translation.

Why do you keep thinking that gender neutral means transgendered?

 

[Nineveh]

Jade,
"Is all in all" = transgendered too.
As for your Hebrew, how long have you studied? Or did you cut and paste again?

 

[Balder]

I used the word "transgendered" in a light-hearted way, knowing the connotations it would bring up for literalists, but really it makes sense that an absolute being would transcend relative distinctions like gender differences. I can't imagine why this should be problematic.

 

[Nineveh]

Balder,
What if God wants to be known a certain way? Why does that seem problematic for you?

 

[Freak]

I'm sorry you feel this way Freak

What? That I believe God is spirit? Read John 4.

Did you read the OP?

OP???

 

[Rimi]

Dude seriously. Grab a brain or something.

Where do you get that idea from?

You guys have been severely brainwashed or something. Where do you get your talking points from? They sure are not all from the Bible. This is like 12th centuary Anselmian thinking or something. Yeesh.

You said you worshipped rocks. Rocks are nothing but hard dirt. You really need to take that aluminum foil beret off your melon and read what one of your personalities wrote.

 

[Nineveh]

Christ is "S/he", Freak? OP= opening post, post one of this thread.

 

[Freak]

stated quite clearly my beliefs that Christ is the word made flesh and the way to salvation.

Nineveh, Jade is taking a public stance on the fact that she believes Jesus Christ is God!

 

[Nineveh]

Nineveh, Jade is taking a public stance on the fact that she believes Jesus Christ is God!

And a whole lot more. Have your read the opening post yet?

 

[Rimi]

Nin, tell Jaded to stop having an open mind . . . her brain keeps falling out.

 

[Nineveh]

For your convenience, Freak:

Christ is Divine, of the Divine, from the Divine and yes I think he is God though I don't think it's in quite the same 'literal' way that you do. post 234

What is my theology behind Jesus being God? God is everything. He/She is all.
What do I mean by God? God is everything. Where you find "Spirit" you find God. Where you find Life you find God. God is in us and connects us with each other. God is the Ground of All Being. God is found in the Inbetween and thus Everything is God.
What does it mean to be created in his image? We are made in the image of the 'Spirit' or 'soul' of God. My reflection on Genesis story is a little different. We never fell. We only think that we did and created a whole story to do with that idea. It was our mistake. We have always been holy . We never 'fell' so to speak. We only think we did. Jesus came to liberate us from a 'guilt' and a primitive way of thinking that should have never happened.
So the outcome is still basically the same. (But yes. This discussion belongs somewhere else) post 249

 

[Balder]

Balder,
What if God wants to be known a certain way? Why does that seem problematic for you?

What makes you think the Bible is "just as God wants it to be," including exclusively male references, rather than the product of human minds with certain cultural presuppositions and modes of expression?

 

[Jadespring]

The topic, which you seem to have lost in your paragraphs there, is how you can take what a Holy and Just God says on the face of it and "esoterically spiritualize" it to mean the opposite.

Ah finally headway. *phew*
Finally the root of the issue is being discussed.


The answer is simple:

Because I discern the meaning of what God was trying to tell us as more then what it appears to be. I don't assume that the literal words on the page always convey the same meaning as they would have thousands of years ago because our world views are very different.
I also don't assume that everything in the Bible was written as historical fact as many text of this nature are diactic in intent. Then as now they were meant to teach "truth" in terms of wisdom teaching and stories (some metaphor, some purposely metaphorised and yes some historic) and were never meant to be taken in such a literal fashion.
This in no way says that the Bible is not holy or that it is not God breathed or inspired.
It most definately is.
I also don't assume that when I read something that my understanding is right and only go and listen to people that agree with me.
I have spent years studying, discussing and reading similar and opposing viewpoints on many different issues. Over those years many have my understanding have indeed changed because of this and some have not. I constantly challenge and contemplate what otehr people have to say and am open to the possibility of correction.
However this does not mean, that as is happening here, that when I don't agree with what you are saying that it is because I don't want to or are ignoring it, or simply am not open to change. It mean simply that I don't agree and you're arguments are not cutting it.
after contemplating them
I also have a living, breathing relationship with God, that is present today in my life. And my witness of this relationship and what has been revealed and understood through it plays heavily in how I read and understand the words on those pages.
There is absoutely no way that I can discount this. It would be tantamount to discounting God and his presence. Believe me when I say that I have tried too and in doing so led to much strife and struggle until I accepted that this was just the way it was going to be.

So there you go. Long detailed answer to you're question.

So perhaps I'll try one in return?

Why do you take it at face value and take everything that's on the page in a literal fashion?

 

[Nineveh]

What makes you think the Bible is "just as God wants it to be," including exclusively male references, rather than the product of human minds with certain cultural presuppositions and modes of expression?

And what makes you think the opposite?

Surely in all the open mindedness going around there is room for a God to be as He declares Himself to be just as He had it recorded. Anyway, this thread isn't about you and what you take issue with, it's about jade's s/he-is-all-in-all god in comparison with the Biblical God you don't seem to care for. Is there something you would like to add to the topic of jade's s/he-is-all-in-all god?