Its safer to own a gun?

[musterion]

What very restrictive gun laws look like in practice.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...kend-violence-roundup-met-20170704-story.html

 

[eider]

Phenomenal footage.

Some points:

Note that the murderer was dead before he hit the ground (start at 2:00 for clear slow-mo). If you've never seen this, watch the footage. You saw him go limp before he landed, because he was already dead.

A murderer entered a store, gun(s?) drawn and pointed at innocent people, manifesting a clear and present danger (i.e., even though he had not harmed anybody yet, he was already the aggressor), which justifies the store-owner for using lethal force, which he did do.

The murderer did not murder anybody, because the innocent man killed him before he could.

The innocent man, who killed the murderer, is not guilty of murder or homicide, in killing him.

...so you never studied law, for sure! :chuckle:

 

[Nihilo]

...so you never studied law, for sure! :chuckle:

Go ahead and refute anything I said, for my instruction.

 

[eider]

This is.... great!

So, basically, to cut down on crime, go out with a gun..... yes?

I can see that there are several knowledgeable people on this thread, and the advice has been excellent. What have we got?.... ummm...

Rifles are better....... yep.
Practice.......... YEP!
More conceal carry states........ most of you liked that.
hope
Keep 'em ready......... yes, unless you just want to chuck the bloomin' things at somebody.
Get a Glock!....... The depth of info is just astonishing..
Don't use real teachers, put retired cops in to teach!..... I loved that. I mean, who needs real teachers?
And there were robbers who become murderers before they've shot their gun.... I liked that!


So now....... if anybody actually has any good advice (a clue!), let's pretend that a person in the US has just decided to buy and carry a gun when s/he goes out. Let's say s/he's got the licences, been to training, put in range time, decided upon a handgun, been advised and purchased ammunition, and now wants to go out shopping actually carrying this gun either in-view or concealed.

OK? Got that? Now........ what did s/he forget?
Come on, all you gun carriers....... what other 'things' did s/he need to do?
Do you know?

 

[JudgeRightly]

That's why we need more conceal/carry states.

What we have from God is the right to purchase, own, and carry individual defensive weapons. The government and liberals don't like that though, so they put restrictions on that right.

 

[JudgeRightly]

To be clear: I was pointing out that trained armed people can be life-savers in difficult situations. I do not think everybody should have a weapon.

So what happens when the police or armed forces aren't around and there's a gun pointed at innocent people?

 

[eider]

What we have from God is the right to purchase, own, and carry individual defensive weapons. The government and liberals don't like that though, so they put restrictions on that right.

..from God......
OK...
So you carry a gun when you go out, right?

This means that you are experienced, and could answer my earlier question? I'll write it ahgain for your attention:-
So now.......... let's pretend that a person in the US has just decided to buy and carry a gun when s/he goes out. Let's say s/he's got the licences, been to training, put in range time, decided upon a handgun, been advised and purchased ammunition, and now wants to go out shopping actually carrying this gun either in-view or concealed.

Now........ what did s/he forget?
Come on, all you gun carriers....... what other 'things' did s/he need to do?
Do you know?

 

[musterion]

Nothing stupider than a Brit babbling on about gun ownership.

 

[Nihilo]

Nothing stupider than a Brit babbling on about gun ownership.

Yes, I was wondering what wisdom the citizen of Ye Olde England might share with us free people . . . .

 

[musterion]

Yes, I was wondering what wisdom the citizen of Ye Olde England might share with us free people . . . .

Cornwallis unavailable for comment.

 

[exminister]

So, gun use for self-defense: wrong or not?

Not wrong. I wouldn't blame anyone for defending themselves. I would have preferred Dylann Roof to be the only one who died that day.

But I guess it is not right for me. I had a draft card during the Vietnam war. I was never called up but I was prepared to go as a medic and not carry a gun. One fellow member did go and was just that. He helped many soldiers from dying on the field. In one battle he was shot in the arm and didn't know it until it was pointed out to him. He got his Purple Heart. That would be my preference in the same situation.

Why do you think Jesus and the Apostles didn't defend themselves or preach taking up arms? Christ for redemption. But why didn't the apostles take up arms and do battle preventing themselves being from tortured and killed? Would you think that is not an example for today?

Bump

 

[JudgeRightly]

..from God......
OK...
So you carry a gun when you go out, right?

I don't actually own a gun, though I've looked into purchasing one recently. Unfortunately, I'm kind of deterred by the fact that 1) I can't bring it on the semi-truck with me due to company policy (they're anti-gun), 2) the laws aren't very clear on what is required, if anything, to obtain one, and 3) I'm not even sure what gun I want to buy.

This means that you are experienced, and could answer my earlier question? I'll write it ahgain for your attention:-
So now.......... let's pretend that a person in the US has just decided to buy and carry a gun when s/he goes out. Let's say s/he's got the licences, been to training, put in range time, decided upon a handgun, been advised and purchased ammunition, and now wants to go out shopping actually carrying this gun either in-view or concealed.

Sounds like a true American citizen to me.

Now........ what did s/he forget? Come on, all you gun carriers....... what other 'things' did s/he need to do? Do you know?

NOPE. Can't answer your question. Sorry.

 

[Right Divider]

Maybe this is the situation:

1. It is safer (at least in the USA) for the individual to own a gun.
2. It is safer for society as a whole if there are less guns out there.

How does one choose between these? Or balance the two?

It depends on who has the guns.

This point cannot be repeated enough: Criminals do not respect anti-gun laws!

 

[eider]

I don't actually own a gun, though I've looked into purchasing one recently. Unfortunately, I'm kind of deterred by the fact that 1) I can't bring it on the semi-truck with me due to company policy (they're anti-gun), 2) the laws aren't very clear on what is required, if anything, to obtain one, and 3) I'm not even sure what gun I want to buy.



Sounds like a true American citizen to me.



NOPE. Can't answer your question. Sorry.

No probs.
And thankyou for your straight and clear answer.
Most US States have got one huge gap in their gun ownership and gun-use protection/law. And in any case, most gun owners have a huge gap in their home safety provision in respect of their guns and their use.

Imagine that you had carried out all of those 'actions' as described earlier, and went out shopping, or walking in the park, whatever.... somehow carrying that gun.
Let's say that you chose a mid-weight mid-calibre mid-power 11-shot handgun, concealed. During your trip you drive into a garage (filling station?) to fill up your vehicle, and then you go into the station shop to buy a soft-drink and pay for all. There is a long queue. You are day dreaming about something. The next thing you know all hell and gunshots breaks loose, ahead of you is a big man wearing a hood pointing a big handgun at the ceiling; dust is falling down from the shots that tore into the ceiling tiles. He is shouting at the cashier and turning to left and right shouting at everybody to get on the floor. He turns and smashes the first customer at the till-point in the face with the gun and she falls to the floor. He shoots a couple of shots into the anti-bandit glass but although the bullets do smash through the 13mm laminated pain it does hold together, and so he starts to beat at the screening with the gun. Nobody has moved but you, who pulled your gun and trying to control your adrenalin filled and shaking body you steady yourself and aim.
..... Now.... it's up to you to tell yourself how many shots you fire at this man, if that's what you decide to do. It's your call...... I'm going to guess that you aim for his mid-upper body at 20 feet and shoot three times, but if you want you can empty the blooming gun into him.

....Now, it's your call.... how many times did you hit him? And by the way, what shot/slugs are you using in that handgun?

.... I've got to go for thirty minutes....... could you fill in those spaces, anmd also tell me where you hit him, etc. If you missed with a shot, tell me that as well...


OK?


EDIT: I've got to go to bed.... will see if you answered in the morning.

 

[patrick jane]

..from God......
OK...
So you carry a gun when you go out, right?

This means that you are experienced, and could answer my earlier question? I'll write it ahgain for your attention:-
So now.......... let's pretend that a person in the US has just decided to buy and carry a gun when s/he goes out. Let's say s/he's got the licences, been to training, put in range time, decided upon a handgun, been advised and purchased ammunition, and now wants to go out shopping actually carrying this gun either in-view or concealed.

Now........ what did s/he forget?
Come on, all you gun carriers....... what other 'things' did s/he need to do?
Do you know?

Keep one in the chamber

 

[eider]

Keep one in the chamber

Is that what you do?
We're not allowed to own handguns in the UK at all, but I don't think I'd ever have a slide-action gun. I know they've got disadvantages but I would choose a mid-sized revolver because I used to shoot one and so understand them. I would leave the 'in-line' 'hammer' chamber empty. If that's too slow, then too bad.

 

[patrick jane]

Is that what you do?
We're not allowed to own handguns in the UK at all, but I don't think I'd ever have a slide-action gun. I know they've got disadvantages but I would choose a mid-sized revolver because I used to shoot one and so understand them. I would leave the 'in-line' 'hammer' chamber empty. If that's too slow, then too bad.

I don't have a gun yet but I will soon - Then I'll learn all about it and practice. I like revolvers too.

 

[Nihilo]

No probs.
And thankyou for your straight and clear answer.
Most US States have got one huge gap in their gun ownership and gun-use protection/law. And in any case, most gun owners have a huge gap in their home safety provision in respect of their guns and their use.

Imagine that you had carried out all of those 'actions' as described earlier, and went out shopping, or walking in the park, whatever.... somehow carrying that gun.
Let's say that you chose a mid-weight mid-calibre mid-power 11-shot handgun, concealed. During your trip you drive into a garage (filling station?) to fill up your vehicle, and then you go into the station shop to buy a soft-drink and pay for all. There is a long queue. You are day dreaming about something. The next thing you know all hell and gunshots breaks loose, ahead of you is a big man wearing a hood pointing a big handgun at the ceiling; dust is falling down from the shots that tore into the ceiling tiles. He is shouting at the cashier and turning to left and right shouting at everybody to get on the floor. He turns and smashes the first customer at the till-point in the face with the gun and she falls to the floor. He shoots a couple of shots into the anti-bandit glass but although the bullets do smash through the 13mm laminated pain it does hold together, and so he starts to beat at the screening with the gun. Nobody has moved but you, who pulled your gun and trying to control your adrenalin filled and shaking body you steady yourself and aim.
..... Now.... it's up to you to tell yourself how many shots you fire at this man, if that's what you decide to do. It's your call...... I'm going to guess that you aim for his mid-upper body at 20 feet and shoot three times, but if you want you can empty the blooming gun into him.

....Now, it's your call.... how many times did you hit him? And by the way, what shot/slugs are you using in that handgun?

.... I've got to go for thirty minutes....... could you fill in those spaces, anmd also tell me where you hit him, etc. If you missed with a shot, tell me that as well...


OK?


EDIT: I've got to go to bed.... will see if you answered in the morning.

Go back to playing video games, Eider.

Is he alone, or does he have friends with him? If you can escape safely, do so, and if not, if you can, find cover. If you are safe, stay there, if you are not, then you're going to have draw for shooting. If he's spastic, aim for center of mass, and if he's setting still, aim for his head. What's behind him if you miss? Are your bullets hollowpoint? They'll expand, limiting over-penetration if you miss. Do not shoot if there are innocent people between you and him, or behind him.

Fire, and fire, and fire until he falls down and drops his gun and is otherwise obviously incapacitated. You're trying to eliminate the threat, not kill. We know death is possible, but this is his game we're playing now, he chose the game.

Then you call the police and say someone's been shot. Call your lawyer next.

 

[Nihilo]

Is that what you do?
We're not allowed to own handguns in the UK at all, but I don't think I'd ever have a slide-action gun. I know they've got disadvantages but I would choose a mid-sized revolver because I used to shoot one and so understand them. I would leave the 'in-line' 'hammer' chamber empty. If that's too slow, then too bad.

Respect. Disagree, but respect.

 

[eider]

Go back to playing video games, Eider.

The only game I ever played on a computer is chess.
You just can't get it right can you?
You're the guy who wants to fill classrooms with inexperienced teachers, presumably making the professionals redundant.

Is he alone, or does he have friends with him? If you can escape safely, do so, and if not, if you can, find cover. If you are safe, stay there, if you are not, then you're going to have draw for shooting. If he's spastic, aim for center of mass, and if he's setting still, aim for his head. What's behind him if you miss? Are your bullets hollowpoint? They'll expand, limiting over-penetration if you miss. Do not shoot if there are innocent people between you and him, or behind him.

Oh really?
So you didn't click on the fact that the posted member could build any circumstances that they liked......... the scenario was open to the posted member.
All I built up is the fact that you're in a filling station shop with a crazed nutter who has shot into the ceiling, shot through 13mmAB glass and smashed a customer in the face. You are in a customer queue for goodness sake, and so far you're talking like a total beginner.

Fire, and fire, and fire until he falls down and drops his gun and is otherwise obviously incapacitated. You're trying to eliminate the threat, not kill. We know death is possible, but this is his game we're playing now, he chose the game.

You just decided to shoot him in the head one para ago, and now you're wandering off into 'try not to kill'.

Then you call the police and say someone's been shot. Call your lawyer next.

Yeah..... you just shot, shot and shot again in a shop full of people standing in a queue.

So what might possibly have happened when you did all that shooting in a shop full of customers?

And what should you ALWAYS have arranged for your family's protection when you acquire a gun? What do you ALWAYS arrange when you buy a motor-vehicle?