Its safer to own a gun?

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musterion

musterion

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exminister said:
https://forsythstories.com/2013/01/22/what-gun-would-jesus-carry-top-10-picks-of-bible-scholars/

Does this look right?

gun-jesus.jpg
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I personally find that blasphemous.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
exminister said:
Why conceal?
Would it be a better deterrent if the guns were clearly seen?
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No.

Criminals have crept up on whoever is legal open carrying and put one in the back of their head. It's just common sense threat minimization, from a criminal's point of view. That's why constant situational awareness is vital wherever someone goes these days, armed or not, and concealed carry is wiser (unless someone is in an environment with a lot of open carry where it would be stupid to try to break the law, or in an environment where you know there's a preponderance of legal concealed carriers).

Since you lack that and find the need for it absurd, good luck carrying around a cop with you wherever you go.
 
musterion

musterion

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You'll hate this story but too bad. About 12 years ago at a former church, one of the members was the owner of the biggest gun shop in the area. Most people, including the pastor, were hunters. News had been around that time of a spate of church shootings. The pastor made the announcement that in case anyone was concerned that it should happen there, a shooter, once identified, would not make it halfway to the door.

Does that bother you?
 
musterion

musterion

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steko said:
The Ruger LCP 380 is an excellent gun.

I've carried one consistently in my hip pocket for years.
Before that was the Keltec, but the Ruger is better.
Thousands of rounds and not a misfire.

The 380 is like a 9mm with less powder behind the projectile.

Get a Desantis Super Fly holster and it's not much different than carrying a fat billfold.

As they say, "Better a 380 in your pocket than a Glock in your truck".

And, I've got a Glock 23 in my truck which I carry in certain environments, but the 380 is with me all the time.
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Talked with my dad last night and he reminded me he has the Ruger LCP and swears by it. I'm now looking closely at that for the Wife and myself. Excuse me in advance if I'm hitting you up in private for advice!
 
exminister

exminister

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musterion said:
You'll hate this story but too bad. About 12 years ago at a former church, one of the members was the owner of the biggest gun shop in the area. Most people, including the pastor, were hunters. News had been around that time of a spate of church shootings. The pastor made the announcement that in case anyone was concerned that it should happen there, a shooter, once identified, would not make it halfway to the door.

Does that bother you?
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Don't hate the story. It doesn't bother me. It would be a happier, at least temporarily turn of event, if Dylann Roof was shot first.

I have owned guns and currently have a small 22 rifle.

My point is if one believes in God's protection then why would one be so easily drawn into the constant fearmongering and the need to be heavily armed. Point of this thread and video. What's the point in trusting God? I am not talking about taking anyone's rights away but when I read the New Testament it says God will protect me always. And since the apostles didn't preach to bear arms it seems less of a need. And in fact God allowed some apostles to be killed. Their death converted many. If they carried, it certainly would have been a different story (there is certainly enough of those stories). When I got my first guns it was definitely fear based. What a waste of time. I did go from that to having fun with guns. However, I realized the amount of training to be effective in the case of a shooter was more than I had time for. If I shot someone innocent I couldn't live with myself. If is my time so it will be. I cannot see anything in the behavior of Christ or Apostles that says any different. The focus would seem to be bearing faith/trust and not arms. I know living in fear is horrible.

1 John 4:18
 
exminister

exminister

Well-known member
musterion said:
Why?



Stop. Right. There.

You're using the false argument of mala fides ("bad faith") by appealing to a standard you don't even believe in, just to try to shut down people who disagree with you. It's hypocritical.
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No you just shut the argument down.

How do reconcile the two?
 
musterion

musterion

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exminister said:
No you just shut the argument down.

How do reconcile the two?
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It's not my job to reconcile anything -- you are the one that posed the question, "If one believes in God's protection..."

Is that why you don't arm yourself -- because God will keep you from harm, and if not, that's His will too?

Okay...reconcile that with calling the police in ANY circumstance, no matter who may be harmed. Would you?

Or call paramedics?

Fire department?

Have you purchased insurance?

Do you have a 401K?

Dabble in stocks?

If it's all God's will, whatever happens or doesn't happen, then doing ANY of those things is just as much not trusting God as you imply concealed carry to be.
 
exminister

exminister

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musterion said:
It's not my job to reconcile anything -- you are the one that posed the question, "If one believes in God's protection..."

Is that why you don't arm yourself -- because God will keep you from harm, and if not, that's His will too?

Okay...reconcile that with calling the police in ANY circumstance, no matter who may be harmed. Would you?

Or call paramedics?

Fire department?

Have you purchased insurance?

Do you have a 401K?

Dabble in stocks?

If it's all God's will, whatever happens or doesn't happen, then doing ANY of those things is just as much not trusting God as you imply concealed carry to be.
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I see a difference because it wasn't fear based to buy insurance and invest. Financial things did exist in the time of Christ on earth and He didn't say things against them except to not love them more. He did say put away the sword and those who live by sword die by the sword. And then we have the life of Christ and the Apostles. It is a very high bar to live as they did. I am humbled.

As I said I originally bought guns because of fear. Fear and faith don't live together. I am happier when I say God has all this in His hands and no matter how I try to protect myself it will never be enough. When I surrender to this faith the world is a happier and safer place and I enjoy the moments of my life.
 
exminister

exminister

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musterion said:
False premise.

It is not fear in operation with us. Security against evil for ourselves, our family, our property and society is the drive.

Now try again.
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Not a false premise. It's my view of my relationship with God, others, myself and how I read the Bible.

No need to try again. I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about me and how I went through this decision of "am I safer with or without a gun?", which has been a multi-year journey. For me it is too fear based. It isn't that way for you. I suppose we all need to come to terms to what helps our faith and what hurts it. It doesn't have to be the same answer.

I can't understand how it's a bulwark against evil for you and you can't understand how I see it is a fear/faith issue. And I am plenty OK with that and just wanted to see how others view it in the light of their Christian walk and maybe give some others a chance to think how it is for them.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
exminister said:
Not a false premise. It's my view of my relationship with God, others, myself and how I read the Bible.

No need to try again. I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about me and how I went through this decision of "am I safer with or without a gun?", which has been a multi-year journey. For me it is too fear based. It isn't that way for you. I suppose we all need to come to terms to what helps our faith and what hurts it. It doesn't have to be the same answer.

I can't understand how it's a bulwark against evil for you and you can't understand how I see it is a fear/faith issue. And I am plenty OK with that and just wanted to see how others view it in the light of their Christian walk and maybe give some others a chance to think how it is for them.
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So, gun use for self-defense: wrong or not?
 
exminister

exminister

Well-known member
musterion said:
So, gun use for self-defense: wrong or not?
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Not wrong. I wouldn't blame anyone for defending themselves. I would have preferred Dylann Roof to be the only one who died that day.

But I guess it is not right for me. I had a draft card during the Vietnam war. I was never called up but I was prepared to go as a medic and not carry a gun. One fellow member did go and was just that. He helped many soldiers from dying on the field. In one battle he was shot in the arm and didn't know it until it was pointed out to him. He got his Purple Heart. That would be my preference in the same situation.

Why do you think Jesus and the Apostles didn't defend themselves or preach taking up arms? Christ for redemption. But why didn't the apostles take up arms and do battle preventing themselves being from tortured and killed? Would you think that is not an example for today?
 
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