ECT Israel is not the BOC

[whitestone]

Nope. It was good advice.

If you understood it, you wouldn't be so confused.

lol,you referred him to Romans 11:25 KJV and to Genesis 48:19 KJV and told him it would help him see who the "Gentiles" are.
then in post #123 you said they were the ten lost tribes so if they are then they are blinded in part like it says in Romans 11 and if you are a gentile how would you know?

 

[tetelestai]

(Rom 11:25) I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,

Paul makes it clear that what he was talking about in Romans 11 was a mystery.

 

[tetelestai]

lol,you referred him to Romans 11:25 KJV and to Genesis 48:19 KJV and told him it would help him see who the "Gentiles" are.

Correct

then in post #123 you said they were the ten lost tribes

The 10 lost tribes mixed with the Gentiles for over 700 years. By the time the first century came, they could not be distinguished from a pagan Gentile.

so if they are then they are blinded in part like it says in Romans 11

God divorced the Israelites from the 10 tribes until the New Covenant was made.

Which is why Jesus told the Disciples not to go amongst the Samaritans or Gentiles (because the 10 tribes were mixed in with them). But, then in Acts, after the cross, Jesus tells them to go to the Samaritans, and all of the world.

and if you are a gentile how would you know?

It didn't matter. That's why Paul said don't waste your time on endless genealogies.

(1 Tim 1:4) or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies....

Once the New Covenant was fully in place (70AD), it didn't matter anymore.

Yet, that is how all of Israel was saved.

 

[whitestone]

(Rom 11:25) I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,

Paul makes it clear that what he was talking about in Romans 11 was a mystery.

when Israel came out of Egypt http://biblehub.com/hebrew/4714.htm (Hams children) and Ephraim and Manasseh came also and wandered for 40 years and then entered the land who were the gentile nations before Ephraim and Manasseh were born,the ones that existed prior to this point?

 

[tetelestai]

when Israel came out of Egypt http://biblehub.com/hebrew/4714.htm (Hams children) and Ephraim and Manasseh came also and wandered for 40 years and then entered the land who were the gentile nations before Ephraim and Manasseh were born,the ones that existed prior to this point?

I have no idea what you are talking about?

Can you try to clarify?

 

[whitestone]

I have no idea what you are talking about?

Can you try to clarify?

yes I will I'm wanting you to clarify exactly who the gentile nations were before Ephraim and Manasseh's children intermingled with them in Hosea 7:8 KJV

 

[tetelestai]

yes I will I'm wanting you to clarify exactly who the gentile nations were before Ephraim and Manasseh's children intermingled with them in Hosea 7:8 KJV

Everyone who wasn't a descendant of Jacob's 12 sons.

 

[Tambora]

The Israelites from the line of Ephraim became a multitude of nations.

When was that? Point it out in scripture where that happened.

Why can't anyone tell us about these multitude of nations, and great people?

Why don't you give it a shot and tell us the names of all those nations that the descendants of Ephraim (not his brother Manasseh, or any of the other of Jacob's sons) established.

 

[whitestone]

Nope,

The descendants of Ephraim and Manasseh would become as numerous as the sand on the seashore.

Those descendants were NEVER Jews.

Those descendants mixed with the pagan Gentiles, and by the time the first century came 700 years later, there was no way to distinguish them from a pagan Gentile, they had become Gentiles.

That's how all of Israel was saved, and that's how the Gentiles became fellow heirs.

That's why all who have faith in Christ Jesus are the Israel of God.

You don't like that, because it completely destroys your Dispensationalism.

I'm still waiting for one of you Darby Followers to tell us the multitude of nations that the descendants of Ephraim became?

Just list these multitude of Israelite nations Danoh?

so are you suggesting that their salvation is based on their bloodline when you ask Danoh to list the same nations you just listed?

 

[tetelestai]

When was that? Point it out in scripture where that happened.

That's the mystery Paul speaks of in Romans 11.

Those descendants became as numerous as the sand on the seashores, and they lived amongst the Gentiles

(Hosea 8:8)Israel is swallowed up;
now she is among the nations
like something no one wants.

And, they forgot who God was:

(Hosea 8:14) Israel has forgotten their Maker...

The descendants of Ephraim were out of covenant with God.

They assimilated with the Gentiles. 700 years later in the first century, they were so assimilated with the Gentiles, and married Gentiles, there was no way to know who the true descendants of the House of Israel were.

Yet, they were promised a New Covenant.

That's what happened, that's how all of Israel was saved.

 

[tetelestai]

so are you suggesting that their salvation is based on their bloodline when you ask Danoh to list the same nations you just listed?

I asked Danoh to list the nations, because he knows, and I know that he cannot, nor can anyone else.

It was to prove a point.

Jesus made it clear that He had sheep of a different fold, and that those sheep would hear His voice.

There were two folds in the sheep pen. The house of Israel and the House of Judah.

However, because the house of Israel was divorced from God, the Disciples were told not to go amongst the other fold (Samaritans & Gentiles) until after the cross.

It was considered an abomination for a man to remarry his divorced wife after his divorced wife had been defiled.

(Deut 24:4) then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD.

After God divorced the house of Israel, she was became a harlot.

Paul touched on the subject:

(Rom 7:3) So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

Christ Jesus had to die in order for God to remarry the Israelites from the House of Israel.

 

[whitestone]

I asked Danoh to list the nations, because he knows, and I know that he cannot, nor can anyone else.

It was to prove a point.

Jesus made it clear that He had sheep of a different fold, and that those sheep would hear His voice.

There were two folds in the sheep pen. The house of Israel and the House of Judah.

However, because the house of Israel was divorced from God, the Disciples were told not to go amongst the other fold (Samaritans & Gentiles) until after the cross.

It was considered an abomination for a man to remarry his divorced wife after his divorced wife had been defiled.

(Deut 24:4) then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD.

After God divorced the house of Israel, she was became a harlot.

Paul touched on the subject:

(Rom 7:3) So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

Christ Jesus had to die in order for God to remarry the Israelites from the House of Israel.

UMM lol,Because he knows?

 

[Tambora]

Tet would have us believe that all the tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel would all become a multitude of nations.
But that is not what Gen 48:19 says.
It says the descendants of Manasseh would become a great nation and the descendants of Ephraim would become a multitude of nations.
And no other kids are mentioned at all.

But let's keep going with Tet's notion.
It was Gentiles that sacked Jerusalem in 70 AD.
In Tet's view, Israel (what was the whole northern kingdom) became the beast that set up the abomination of desolation in the temple, instituted the mark of the beast, and then sacked Jerusalem in 70 AD.

 

[tetelestai]

Tet would have us believe that all the tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel would all become a multitude of nations.
But that is not what Gen 48:19 says.
It says the descendants of Manasseh would become a great nation and the descendants of Ephraim would become a multitude of nations.

Ephraim is used interchangeably with Israel in the OT. Ezekiel says God would join the stick of Ephraim with the stick of Judah.

But let's keep going with Tet's notion.
It was Gentiles that sacked Jerusalem in 70 AD.
In Tet's view, Israel (what was the whole northern kingdom) became the beast that set up the abomination of desolation in the temple, instituted the mark of the beast, and then sacked Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Not every human being in Rome was a descendant of the 10 tribes. Read the book of Romans, there were many Romans who became believers in Christ Jesus.

(John 10:27) My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

 

[Tambora]

I asked Danoh to list the nations, because he knows, and I know that he cannot, nor can anyone else.

Including yourself, and yet you say it is history, already happened.
So where's the proof?

 

[tetelestai]

UMM lol,Because he knows?

Yes, He knows.

But when the Disciples, Paul, and everyone else preached the gospel, they did not know who was who.

That's why they preached to everyone.

 

[whitestone]

Yes, He knows.

But when the Disciples, Paul, and everyone else preached the gospel, they did not know who was who.

That's why they preached to everyone.

That's your opinion I watched Danoh,Dan,Jerryshu and I.p. go at it for years on another site and I bet you just made Danoh real M.A.D.

 

[tetelestai]

Including yourself, and yet you say it is history, already happened.
So where's the proof?

(Hosea 2:3) I will plant her for myself in the land; I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.' I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people'; and they will say, 'You are my God.'"

(1 Peter 2:10) Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Who was Peter speaking to?

Answer:

(1 Peter 1:1 KJV) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

In Hosea, only the Israelites from the 10 tribes were told God would have no mercy on them. Hosea says God would have mercy on Judah.

Peter makes it clear he is talking to the Israelites, not only when he tells them they are a people, but when he also tells them once they had no mercy.

(Hosea 1:6-7) ...for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah,...

 

[Tambora]

Ephraim is used interchangeably with Israel in the OT. Ezekiel says God would join the stick of Ephraim with the stick of Judah.

Not in Gen 48:19.
The verse say Manasseh is the child whose descendants will become a great nation, and that Ephraim is the child whose descendants would become a multitude of nations.
Trying to make every tribal son in the whole northern kingdom a descendant of Ephraim is not going to cut it because that is not what the verse is telling us.
It would only be the descendants of Ephraim himself.

Not every human being in Rome was a descendant of the 10 tribes.

You can't prove any of them were.

Read the book of Romans, there were many Romans who became believers in Christ Jesus.

Becoming a believer does not prove your ancestry one way or the other.

 

[tetelestai]

That's your opinion

It's not my opinion, it's what Jesus said:

(John 10:16) I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

(John 10:27) My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

Jesus joined the two houses together by His death on the cross.

There is now one flock, with one shepherd.