Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

way 2 go

Well-known member
What? You really are clutching at straws now. So someone in fire isn't going to be in agony?

Bonkers.



the rich man appears to be in negotiations

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue

Luk_16:28**for I have five brothers, so that he may testify to them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
 

Lazy afternoon

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:think:

Jesus warned us of you "they will not be persuaded"

Luk 16:30**And he said, No, father Abraham, but if one should go to them from the dead, they would repent.
Luk 16:31**And he said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded, even though one rose from the dead.

What do you not understand about the word perish?

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

(Mat 5:29) And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

(Mat 5:30) And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

(Mat 8:25) And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.

(Mat 9:17) Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

(Mat 18:14) Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

(Mat 26:52) Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

(Mar 4:38) And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish?

(Luk 5:37) And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.

(Luk 8:24) And they came to him, and awoke him, saying, Master, master, we perish. Then he arose, and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water: and they ceased, and there was a calm.

(Luk 13:3) I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

(Luk 13:5) I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

(Luk 13:33) Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

(Luk 15:17) And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

(Luk 21:18) But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

(Joh 3:15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

(Joh 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

(Joh 10:28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

(Joh 11:50) Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

(Act 8:20) But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

(Act 13:41) Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

(Rom 2:12) For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

(1Co 1:18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

(1Co 8:11) And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

(2Co 2:15) For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

(2Co 4:16) For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

(Col 2:22) Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

(2Th 2:10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

(Heb 1:11) They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

(2Pe 2:12) But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

(2Pe 3:9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
 

Lazy afternoon

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Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The lake of fire is the second death, not the living eternally in consuming fire.

Any punishment of the wicked must occur before the final annialation in the lake of fire.

God is not unjust.

Some people will not have much to answer for, and others will.

The desire of many to see men suffer eternally, reveals a wicked heart.

Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?


LA
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Sodom and Gomorrha are not still burning.

Sodom and Gomorrha are an example .
the lake of fire is eternal :duh:

the people of Sodom and Gomorrha still exist just like the rich man

Mat_11:24**But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The lake of fire is the second death, not the living eternally in consuming fire.

the fire is not consuming

Any punishment of the wicked must occur before the final annialation in the lake of fire.

the lake of fire is the punishment.

judgement then eternal punishment.

Rev 20:13**And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14**And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15**And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


God is not unjust.
God is just

Some people will not have much to answer for, and others will.

The desire of many to see men suffer eternally, reveals a wicked heart.

Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?


LA
it is about reality

Rev 14:11**And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.
 

Lazy afternoon

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Sodom and Gomorrha are an example .
the lake of fire is eternal :duh:

the people of Sodom and Gomorrha still exist just like the rich man

Mat_11:24**But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.


What a laugh.

LA
 

Cross Reference

New member
Perhaps this might help convince some who are capable of understanding:


The Blood of Jesus, though needed for redemption but afar off, babies of the OT when dying in their innocence, were nevertheless covered by it in promise form. Their destination upon dearh would have been with everyone else who died with the same promise of redemption, i.e., the "bosom of Abraham", paradise. In the NT, if the baby dies, the "Bosom of Jesus Christ", Heaven. I believe this would have held true with every soul seen as righteous in the eyes of God by their "convictions" initiated by conscience, able to have their consciences "pricked" being the criteria.
 

Rosenritter

New member
Perhaps this might help convince some who are capable of understanding:


The Blood of Jesus, though needed for redemption but afar off, babies of the OT when dying in their innocence, were nevertheless covered by it in promise form. Their destination upon dearh would have been with everyone else who died with the same promise of redemption, i.e., the "bosom of Abraham", paradise. In the NT, if the baby dies, the "Bosom of Jesus Christ", Heaven. I believe this would have held true with every soul seen as righteous in the eyes of God by their "convictions" initiated by conscience, able to have their consciences "pricked" being the criteria.

That's an interesting philosophy.

Can you show where that was revealed by God in scripture through his prophets?
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
the rich man appears to be in negotiations

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue

Luk_16:28**for I have five brothers, so that he may testify to them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Oh, so he wasn't really in agony after all then? Just a bit hot maybe? A wonder he didn't ask for an electric fan as well then...

:rolleyes:
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Oh, so he wasn't really in agony after all then? Just a bit hot maybe?
Jesus never said he was in agony .

Luk 16:24 ... forG3754 I am tormentedG3600 inG1722 thisG5026 flame.G5395

tormentedG3600

G3600
ὀδυνάω
odunaō
od-oo-nah'-o
From G3601; to grieve: - sorrow, torment.


A wonder he didn't ask for an electric fan as well then...

:rolleyes:

did not know about them
also
no place to plug in if he had known
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Jesus never said he was in agony .

Luk 16:24 ... forG3754 I am tormentedG3600 inG1722 thisG5026 flame.G5395

tormentedG3600

G3600
ὀδυνάω
odunaō
od-oo-nah'-o
From G3601; to grieve: - sorrow, torment.

Ah, so there's no literal fire going on here then? No actual flames, either on, surrounded by or in? I thought you read this literally?

:think:


did not know about them
also
no place to plug in if he had known

Gee, really?

:doh:
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Some on this thread fear Hell so much that they're looking for "Loopholes." They're not sure of their standing before God, so, they try to rationalize the non-existence of the Lake of Fire. Just so they don't have to worry about it. If one isn't a member of the Body of Christ, they will be judged by God by their works and be cast into the Lake of Fire forever. (Eternity) If you don't believe it read the last two chapters of the book of Revelation.
 

Lazy afternoon

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Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Ah, so there's no literal fire going on here then? No actual flames, either on, surrounded by or in? I thought you read this literally?

:think:
literal flame

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
literal flame

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

So...you think a person in literal flame can negotiate then...?

You're just bonkers.

:kookoo:
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Some on this thread fear Hell so much that they're looking for "Loopholes." They're not sure of their standing before God, so, they try to rationalize the non-existence of the Lake of Fire. Just so they don't have to worry about it. If one isn't a member of the Body of Christ, they will be judged by God by their works and be cast into the Lake of Fire forever. (Eternity) If you don't believe it read the last two chapters of the book of Revelation.
:up:

1.believing a lie won't make it true

2.those who want to believe a lie will not be persuaded,
Jesus did miracles and the Jews were aggressively ignorant
of the truth.

Joh 5:15**The man departed and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him whole.
Joh 5:16**And therefore the Jews persecuted Jesus and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the sabbath day.
 
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