Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

[Lazy afternoon]

so you are going to tell me where Jesus lied ?

if you are accusing me of saying Jesus lied then you will have to answer to Heaven for that.

consciousness of the departed, true

So when Jesus died He really did not die you say.

it is his spirit which is why he is
not being burned up by the fire

Why was it necessary for an angel to carry him if he had no body?

Are you saying Jesus lied here

Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

Why was it necessary to bury the rich man if he was only spirit?

You believe in Platonism.

Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Are you saying your spirit gets thirsty for water without your body?

How does Abraham embrace the body of Lazarus if his body is not there?

yes, when Lazarus died he was carried to Abraham's side immediately

The scripture does not say that. You presume that.

Luk 16:26**And besides all this, there is a great chasm fixed between you and us; so that they desiring to pass from here to you cannot, nor can they pass over to us from there.

So forever the tormented persons will be in view of the saints, you suggest.

maybe you will enjoy it?

where did Jesus lie
consciousness of the departed
fire for the unrepentant to stand in
not being burned up by the fire

When theories of man are resisted, it is a common and despicable practice by those who do not walk with Jesus Christ, to accuse their opponents of many things instead of examining the posts correctly.

LA

 

[way 2 go]

if you are accusing me of saying Jesus lied then you will have to answer to Heaven for that.

notice the question mark at the end ? of
so you are going to tell me where Jesus lied ?
not an accusation it is a question.

So when Jesus died He really did not die you say.

show me where I said that ?

Why was it necessary for an angel to carry him if he had no body?

Luk 16:26**And besides all this, there is a great chasm fixed between you and us; so that they desiring to pass from here to you cannot, nor can they pass over to us from there.

Why was it necessary to bury the rich man if he was only spirit?

we bury dead bodies , the rich man was dead :duh:

Are you saying your spirit gets thirsty for water without your body?

Jesus said the rich man asked for water are you saying
Jesus lied here?

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

How does Abraham embrace the body of Lazarus if his body is not there?

what verse did that happen in?

angels as an example of spirits, can hold things.
for example : Rev_8:5**And the angel took the censer ...

The scripture does not say that. You presume that.

Lazarus died he was carried to Abraham's side immediately.

Luk 16:22**And it happened that the beggar died and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom.

So forever the tormented persons will be in view of the saints, you suggest.

maybe you will enjoy it?

ad hominem

When theories of man are resisted, it is a common and despicable practice by those who do not walk with Jesus Christ, to accuse their opponents of many things instead of examining the posts correctly.

LA

then don't accuse me of things

where did Jesus lie?

Jesus revealed truths
consciousness of the departed
fire for the unrepentant to stand in
not being burned up by the fire

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Are you saying your spirit gets thirsty for water without your body? Jesus said the rich man asked for water

are you saying Jesus lied here?

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

No wonder Rosenritter has given up on you.

Your opinion is more important to you than is truth.

LA

 

[Rosenritter]

Are you saying your spirit gets thirsty for water without your body? Jesus said the rich man asked for water



No wonder Rosenritter has given up on you.

Your opinion is more important to you than is truth.

LA

Christ's own proof of the resurrection of the dead (when speaking to the Sadducees) assumes and depends on that the dead, even specifically Abraham, have no consciousness or life without the future resurrection. Way 2 Go would rather interpret the story element of Christ's parable as a "True Story" and rather have Jesus make a fool of himself when he speaks elsewhere to the Jews.

It's so quiet and pretty here without that braying from that eagle-eyed bird brain guy. What's his name. Almost forgot again already!

 

[way 2 go]

Are you saying your spirit gets thirsty for water without your body? Jesus said the rich man asked for water



No wonder Rosenritter has given up on you.

Your opinion is more important to you than is truth.

LA

I answered with scripture that you could not refute
so sorry.

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

 

[way 2 go]

Christ's own proof of the resurrection of the dead (when speaking to the Sadducees) assumes and depends on that the dead, even specifically Abraham, have no consciousness or life without the future resurrection.

obviously rr is wrong as Jesus talks of the consciousness
of Abraham here:
Luk 16:25**"But Abraham said, 'My child, remember when you lived? You had all the good things in life. But Lazarus had nothing but problems. Now he is comforted here, and you are suffering

moses body is in the ground but here Moses is talking to
Jesus
Deu_34:7**And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
Mat_17:3**Then two men were there, talking with him. They were Moses and Elijah.

consciousness of the departed, true

 

[Lazy afternoon]

obviously rr is wrong as Jesus talks of the consciousness
of Abraham here:
Luk 16:25**"But Abraham said, 'My child, remember when you lived? You had all the good things in life. But Lazarus had nothing but problems. Now he is comforted here, and you are suffering

moses body is in the ground but here Moses is talking to
Jesus
Deu_34:7**And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
Mat_17:3**Then two men were there, talking with him. They were Moses and Elijah.

consciousness of the departed, true

No.

The scripture records the taking of Moses body from the grave, by the angel.

Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I answered with scripture that you could not refute
so sorry.

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

Do spirits have fingers and get thirsty?

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Christ's own proof of the resurrection of the dead (when speaking to the Sadducees) assumes and depends on that the dead, even specifically Abraham, have no consciousness or life without the future resurrection. Way 2 Go would rather interpret the story element of Christ's parable as a "True Story" and rather have Jesus make a fool of himself when he speaks elsewhere to the Jews.

It's so quiet and pretty here without that braying from that eagle-eyed bird brain guy. What's his name. Almost forgot again already!

Yes Christ fully died and was raised from the dead by His Father.

The soul that sinneth shall die, not live on.

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

A time for "spiritualizing" here:

It is the "soul" of man that cannot die a physical death,. . . EVER!

Spiritual in the sense a man's soul cannot be seen, only witnessed when in his physical body. When the body dies, the soul moves on to where it can only reside dependent soley upon IT's relationship with God when it was in the body that was prepared for it, quits.

]

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The meaning of soul is life.

When one is dead, then one is absent of life.

Man became living only after God breathed into him the breath of life, and is passed on from mothers to children ever since.

Man is not immortal without the resurrection of some at Christs return, and the wicked are raised to live again for the judgment but will surely die forever according to Gods word above.

God did not lie did He?

LA

 

[Cross Reference]

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The meaning of soul is life.

When one is dead, then one is absent of life.

Man became living only after God breathed into him the breath of life, and is passed on from mothers to children ever since.

Man is not immortal without the resurrection of some at Christs return, and the wicked are raised to live again for the judgment but will surely die forever according to Gods word above.

God did not lie did He?

LA

That is not sound doctrine. Burn the book.

 

[Rosenritter]

No.

The scripture records the taking of Moses body from the grave, by the angel.

Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

LA

You might want to remind Bird Head that Jesus said that what his disciples say in Matthew 17:3 was a vision.

Matthew 17:9 KJV
(9) And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

I predict that he'll refuse to recognize Christ's explanation of what they say that and would rather claim that Jesus lied.

 

[Cross Reference]

I answered with scripture that you could not refute
so sorry.

Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

La misses the whole intent of man's creation. In doing so she/he has used her own ideas to build her own version of it with the help [no doubt] of some cultist magazines.

 

[Cross Reference]

You might want to remind Bird Head that Jesus said that what his disciples say in Matthew 17:3 was a vision.

Matthew 17:9 KJV
(9) And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

I predict that he'll refuse to recognize Christ's explanation of what they say that and would rather claim that Jesus lied.

He commanded that of them because they as yet DID NOT have enough insight to understand to explain what they witnessed; what went on. . . . Just like you. You need to shut up and read your Bible, praying over it all before you do before trying to explain even in part that for which you have no capability..

< back to ignore mode >

 

[marhig]

I don't either, however, if our soul is who we are then we are both correct BECAUSE the body goes back to ashes! Where then does the soul go since IT CANNOT DIE anymore than God can die. Obviously, death then takes on another dimension, doesn't it like, . . . desolation? Read Eze in that light and conclusion to the matter as God can only mean desolation since the soul that sins can never enter His presence.

Yes, death certainly does mean desolation, because to be dead is to be desolate of God. In outer darkness away from his light, dead in our sins.

 

[Cross Reference]

Yes, death certainly does mean desolation, because to be dead is to be desolate of God. In outer darkness away from his light, dead in our sins.

Yes, however, you must remember that desolation is no more the actual destruction of a soul than as our God is a consuming fire.

 

[marhig]

Yes, however, you must remember that desolation is no more the actual destruction of a soul than as our God is a consuming fire.

Yes it does destroy the soul, desolation takes us away from God and to hell, Gods consuming fire destroys our sin and brings us to heaven.

 

[Cross Reference]

Gods consuming fire destroys our sin and brings us to heaven.

No it doesn't. The blood of Jesus does that.

The "Consuming Fire" of God is for removing from our lives anything that might hinder our intimacy with Him; our testmony of Jesus Christ.

 

[way 2 go]

La misses the whole intent of man's creation. In doing so she/he has used her own ideas to build her own version of it with the help [no doubt] of some cultist magazines.

the hell deniers are trying to take comfort in a lie
and reality is ,

in fire not being burned up Luk 16:24 Rev 20:14

 

[way 2 go]

Gods consuming fire destroys our sin and brings us to heaven.

what verse was that from ?

Jesus takes away our sin.

Joh_1:29**The next day John sees Jesus coming to him and says, Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!