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Why are you wasting, what is left of your precious time, on a Christian forum? Why not eat, drink and be merry because tomorrow, you die.
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
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Why are you wasting, what is left of your precious time, on a Christian forum? Why not eat, drink and be merry because tomorrow, you die.
Cross Reference
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Your arguments are an avoidance, a way of doing it as in being 'strawmen' of themselves that you hope will stave off the opposition.. They are a 'life' unto themselves.
Rosenritter
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So you just like the sound of accusing someone else of straw man fallacies whether or not it has any truth or not.
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Give all the context before answering. Lost=death. Why? Because the son was spiritually as well as physically absent from the father's presence as if to say, he might as well be dead. That was the essence of this PARABLE. Would it be otherwise with you if you were the father, given you being the source of his life?
Again, here: "Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God". Luke 9:60 (KJV) In your mind that would be impossible!
Rosenritter
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Or maybe he has rejected a message that rather resembles what the devil would do were he God instead. What exactly did you preach him? "God loves you so much that he is torturing billions without mercy just to scare you into his arms?" Wow - what a heathen to not be persuaded by that.
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To me, you hold to a religious synthesis that might be explained to be the life of the average facilitated Christian.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
I've found the same thing with pompous blowhards. For example, how can someone be so daft as to presume an issue with a contemptible man made doctrine of eternal suffering is akin to hating God?
Bizarre.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Still making those erroneous presumptions? In case it needs spelling out to you I'm not an atheist or "God hater".
Cross Reference
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You fit that handle. Bizarre. I like it.
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Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Pffft, Coming from someone who displays no love, empathy or compassion for others and who makes bizarre leaps of erroneous logic in the process then the tag fits, but on you.
Rosenritter
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Hello Arthur. Would you be able to state something about yourself to replace the "God hater" or "atheist" remarks? I don't know you yet. Thanks.
way 2 go
Well-known member
I would like for you to tell
us where did Jesus lie in Luke 16:19-31 ?
Jesus tells the Pharisees about Abraham, Lazarus
and the rich man and Jesus reveals
already known truths such as
consciousness of the departed,
fire for the unrepentant to stand in,
a protected place with Abraham right next to the unpleasant place,
and he caps it off with
the place of torment is historical
made known to people by
Moses and the Prophets
and if you do not believe them
you will not believe one rising from the dead.
Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
...
Luk 16:26**And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
...
Luk 16:28**For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
...
Luk 16:31**And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Rosenritter
New member
You're interpreting the fictional elements of parable as reality. We are used to your repeated stupidity on this. When you don't respond intelligently or answer questions you are judged insincere.
Fact. This story is told to a multitude.
Fact. Jesus did not speak to the multitudes without parable.
Fact. Parables invoke fictional settings.
Take your perverted torment peddling elsewhere if you aren't going to at least pretend to be intelligent or rational.
Cross Reference
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Fact 1. Its not a parable, Roach. Throw your commentaries away that would lessen the wrath of God for thsoe who play at being stupid.
Fact 2. This was not a teaching session. A making known to them what happens after they die.
Fact 3. Parables invoke[?] fictional settings? Wrong! They are analogies that give understanding of reality.
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Cross Reference
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Compassion, Love, for willful ignorance, purposed to destroy? You are correct. I have none.
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Cross Reference
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In eternity, time does not exist. Therefore whatever exists, either in good or evil, organic or inorganic, pleasure or torment, Heaven or Hell, cannot age. There is no entropy even for the "left alone" unto itself. That is an absolute for which there can be no argument that when there can be no aging, there can be, no decay, no corruption as in, the 'process' cannot EVER end..
Rosenritter
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Considering you have your own thread titled "God does not grant eternal life" I think your personal commentary lacks persuasive weight.
Rosenritter
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Interesting philosophy but completely unbiblical. You also forgot that what God chooses to destroy no longer exists.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Time to stop villianizing 'God'......
Time to stop villianizing 'God'......
It is a 'parable' (obviously),...Jesus spoke in parables didn't he? The 'story' is also not reproduced anywhere else but the gospel of luke. There are many problems with anyone assuming this was an actual historical event,....which is odd that one would, except clinging to some dogma or doctrine that the 'parable' might describe, but that's where critical research comes in, and common sense.
A good list of articles on this parable is here
ECT is insanity on many levels,....and its a wonder that anyone believes in a 'God' who would act as the 'executor' of such a fate on any sentient being, and still be a being of infinite love and wisdom. It is absurd.
Granted there are metaphysical, moral and philosophical aspects and issues to explore or consider in ECT and in 'soul-death', but still the traditional concept of eternal hellfire doesn't hold water (pardon the pun)
Time to stop villianizing 'God'......
It is a 'parable' (obviously),...Jesus spoke in parables didn't he? The 'story' is also not reproduced anywhere else but the gospel of luke. There are many problems with anyone assuming this was an actual historical event,....which is odd that one would, except clinging to some dogma or doctrine that the 'parable' might describe, but that's where critical research comes in, and common sense.
A good list of articles on this parable is here
ECT is insanity on many levels,....and its a wonder that anyone believes in a 'God' who would act as the 'executor' of such a fate on any sentient being, and still be a being of infinite love and wisdom. It is absurd.
Granted there are metaphysical, moral and philosophical aspects and issues to explore or consider in ECT and in 'soul-death', but still the traditional concept of eternal hellfire doesn't hold water (pardon the pun)
way 2 go
Well-known member
you are still have not said in which verse Jesus lied .
wrong
Luk 16:1**And He also said to His disciples,
spoke to the multitudes about the kingdom of God in parables
hell on the other hand he was speaking plainly.
Mat 13:10**And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11**He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Luk 8:10**And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
1. Luke 16 was to disciples so your multitude rule is out
2. Luke 16:19-31 is about hell not the kingdom of God so not a parable
3. Jesus did not lie in Luke 16
Jesus taught that the rich man went to torment
did Jesus lie in Luke 16:24
Luk 16:24**And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.